[ragnar]

Ok, then I see where you come from.

So, for Runaway, would you prefer English voices with English or no subtitles or Spanish voices with Dutch subtitles?

[PolloDiablo]

Originally Posted by ragnar

Ok, then I see where you come from.

So, for Runaway, would you prefer English voices with English or no subtitles or Spanish voices with Dutch subtitles?

English all the way please.

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

English all the way please.

Be aware that Spanish is the original language, so ther would be as much translation to English as it is to Dutch.

[DomStLeger]

I disagree with the logic that games should be voiced in the original language and subtitled into local language. When I watch a foreign film, yes I like the original audio track with english subtitles.

However, a game is a very different experience - it's interactive for a start. So the first aim should be to make it as accessible as possible. If the companies can't afford to dub into local language (which seems to be the main reason usually due to small markets compared to the widest spoken languages) then the next best thing logically is to use the English audio as it is most likely to be accessible to the audience (depending on the country of course; I'm just assuming English is more widely spoken in mainland europe than Spanish, I don't know if thats entirely accurate). Accessible, even if it's not played by someone fluent in English because english phrases and language are so dominent generally in the media thanks to the powerhouse of USA entertainment.

I think though, that like DVDs they should endevour to make both the local language and the language of the audio available to the gamer. That way problems like Erwin's would be solved, as I can understand how you'd want the opition to just play entirely in the language if want to.

Anyway it's just my opinion. If I were playing Runaway for example, and they didn't dub it into english then I personally would want German audio and english subtitles rather than spanish and english.

[ragnar]

I want either the original language or my own language. I just don't see why I should play in a third language (being English). It really adds nothing in my opinion.

EDIT: Oh, the real way to do voices is of course the they did it in The Last Express where all characters speak in their native language or a language both the dialog participants understands. That way, Nico should have spoken in French when speaking with Lobineau and in English when speaking with George, for example. That adds much more to the realism and immersiveness.

[PolloDiablo]

Originally Posted by ragnar

Be aware that Spanish is the original language, so ther would be as much translation to English as it is to Dutch.

Yes, I understand. But I simply do not want ANY Dutch in my games. I even prefer the manual to be in English, but I can live with a Dutch one if I have no other choice. But I will never buy a game that is partially in Dutch.

A small example of the things that happen when games get translated. In URU - Ages Beyond Myst you have to touch Travel Cloths, a cloth being a squarish piece of fabric with the picture of a hand printed upon it. In the Dutch manual, they were talking about Travel Clothes (being apparel, stuff you wear to cover your nakedness).

The first game I played that turned out to have Dutch voices (I didn't know before buying) was Atlantis (not sure which episode). It was so awful, it used such utterly boring and emotion-less speech-actors from childrens' cartoons and "famous" persons that I decided then and there that I would never ever buy another dubbed game. This means I often end up not buying a game that's been on my wishlist for months. Or much later when I can buy it in the UK or New Zealand.

I know English is not the original language for Runaway, but I would not be able to play it in Spanish. I don't want Spanish speech with English subtitles either, I want the entire game in English.

I just don't understand why there is no choice. If you want to go to the cinema or buy a tape or DVD, you can choose whether you want the original soundtrack or the dubbed one. On a DVD, you can switch off the subtitles. Not so in games. Either buy the Dutch yucky version or don't buy at all. Why? Who in game-marketing-land decides my English isn't good enough to be able to understand what's going on in a game?

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

Yes, I understand. But I simply do not want ANY Dutch in my games. I even prefer the manual to be in English, but I can live with a Dutch one if I have no other choice. But I will never buy a game that is partially in Dutch.

Why? Is Dutch an inferior language to English? What if the game is originally in Dutch, would you still prefer it to be translated to English?

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

A small example of the things that happen when games get translated. In URU - Ages Beyond Myst you have to touch Travel Cloths, a cloth being a squarish piece of fabric with the picture of a hand printed upon it. In the Dutch manual, they were talking about Travel Clothes (being apparel, stuff you wear to cover your nakedness).

Yes, those things happens with translations. It happens when it is translated from Spanish to English too.

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

The first game I played that turned out to have Dutch voices (I didn't know before buying) was Atlantis (not sure which episode). It was so awful, it used such utterly boring and emotion-less speech-actors from childrens' cartoons and "famous" persons that I decided then and there that I would never ever buy another dubbed game. This means I often end up not buying a game that's been on my wishlist for months. Or much later when I can buy it in the UK or New Zealand.

This is true for games translated to English too (just buy the English version of The Watchmaker) and even games that is originally in English and have nothing to do with what language the voice actors speak or the translation.

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

I know English is not the original language for Runaway, but I would not be able to play it in Spanish. I don't want Spanish speech with English subtitles either, I want the entire game in English.

Why would you want it to be translated to English? If you want it translated, wouldn't it be much better if they translated it from Spanish to Dutch?

Originally Posted by PolloDiablo

I just don't understand why there is no choice. If you want to go to the cinema or buy a tape or DVD, you can choose whether you want the original soundtrack or the dubbed one. On a DVD, you can switch off the subtitles. Not so in games. Either buy the Dutch yucky version or don't buy at all. Why? Who in game-marketing-land decides my English isn't good enough to be able to understand what's going on in a game?

This I agree with, choice is the thing I've been advocating all along. The subtitles should always be available in all languages when you buy the game. The voices is probably requring different versions though, since they take up much more space. Unfortunately, adventure games don't sell that many copies and I think that's why they don't sell different versions of the voices.

[Marek]

The point is that Dutch translations are often done by crappy actors because the Dutch market is small and doesn't warrant triple-A voice actor (or highly skilled translators for that matter). Dutch translations are often very very awful. For instance (and I use this example a lot), take this line by Zack in TLJ1: "I don't give a shit" (or something to that event) came accross in Dutch as "I don't give a poo-poo." Horrible. Horrible.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Hey, Marek. I noticed that in Beyond Good & Evil there is actually an option for several languages both in voice acting and subtitles. You played it briefly. Did you play in Dutch, and how was the quality?

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Marek

The point is that Dutch translations are often done by crappy actors because the Dutch market is small and doesn't warrant triple-A voice actor (or highly skilled translators for that matter). Dutch translations are often very very awful. For instance (and I use this example a lot), take this line by Zack in TLJ1: "I don't give a shit" (or something to that event) came accross in Dutch as "I don't give a poo-poo." Horrible. Horrible.

I played TLJ in Swedish and I thought it to be an acceptable translation and even had good actors, not top quality, but not bad either. I don't know if the Swedish market is bigger or smaller (very few games ever gets translated to Swedish and only some animated movies gets dubbed) so that it would warrant better actors. It's just that I don't understand the preference for English for translated works. I have a little theory that many prefer English because they know their native tongue much better and therefore are prone to notice all errors in the details in the translation and the voice acting, but if it is in English they won't notice that as much and thus prefer the English version since it sounds better to them (due to that they don't know better).

My own preference for voice acting is this:

1. Voices should always be character-local, i.e they should speak in languages that the characters know. A character that only knows Russian should speak Russian and not English.If the game is taking place in Spain, they should speak Spanish etc.

2. I want the voices in the original language with subtitles both in that language and my own (being Swedish) and if it's not translated to Swedish I would need English subtitles.

3. Voices and subtitles should be in my own language.

4. Some other language I know (mainly English).
2.

[PolloDiablo]

Originally Posted by ragnar

I played TLJ in Swedish and I thought it to be an acceptable translation and even had good actors, not top quality, but not bad either. I don't know if the Swedish market is bigger or smaller (very few games ever gets translated to Swedish and only some animated movies gets dubbed) so that it would warrant better actors. It's just that I don't understand the preference for English for translated works. I have a little theory that many prefer English because they know their native tongue much better and therefore are prone to notice all errors in the details in the translation and the voice acting, but if it is in English they won't notice that as much and thus prefer the English version since it sounds better to them (due to that they don't know better).

My own preference for voice acting is this:

1. Voices should always be character-local, i.e they should speak in languages that the characters know. A character that only knows Russian should speak Russian and not English.If the game is taking place in Spain, they should speak Spanish etc.

2. I want the voices in the original language with subtitles both in that language and my own (being Swedish) and if it's not translated to Swedish I would need English subtitles.

3. Voices and subtitles should be in my own language.

4. Some other language I know (mainly English).
2.

Oh, I notice errors in English games too. I have lived in New Zealand for a year and a half and still work for the company that hired me there. I have beta-tested text-adventures and came back with more typo's and grammatical errors than most native speakers. I tend to like a game a little bit less if they use "their" for "they're" or switch their "its" and "it's".

No, that's not it.

It just doesn't feel right, playing a game in Dutch. It's like the Terminator saying "Ich wuerde zurueckkommen" in stead of "I'll be back". Add to that the fact/very strong suspicion that there's only about three voice-actors in the Netherlands, so that each and every game has exactly the same people in them and that if a game has more than three characters most will sound the same.

And although there's very little chance of there ever being a game released in Dutch, as there are no developers that make adventures or RPGs, I don't think I'd buy it anyway.

[Erwin_Br]

I agree! English words posess a certain ring I like. Most English lines sound very 'flat' when you translate them to Dutch.

--Erwin

[ragnar]

And I bet Spanish lines sounds rather flat when translated to English.

Perhaps I should give up. It seems the Dutch doesn't like their language very much. Ah well, I have met lots of people here in Sweden that dislike Swedish too for some unknown reason. I guess it's because people are so used to English being the language used in all movies and games they see and play that they get totally confused when they encounter one that isn't in English.

Btw, I rather like the sound of Dutch, even if i don't understand much of it.

[ragnar]

I just want to add that some countries seems to be obsessed with their language (Germany, France and USA) and that every other language are foul and almost criminal to utter while other countries (like Sweden and Holland seems to be a case of this) seem equally obsessed that their own language is bad and sounds ugly and should not be used other than an absolute minimum.

[fov]

For any game that's been translated, I would like the option to hear it in the original and use English subtitles. I prefer subtitled movies to dubbed, but never having played a subtitled game I don't know how the experience compares.

It's funny to me that people complain about the lip syncing in Runaway, because I actually thought it was very good. I spent a long time looking at the lips and listening to the dialogue and thinking "Wasn't this game originally in Spanish? How did they DO that?!" It wasn't just that I didn't notice a problem, I actually noticed that it seemed to be synched up well. *shrug*

I am very much looking forward to the sequel... it's my most anticipated game now that Jane Jensen's is "on hold."

-emily

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by ragnar

And I bet Spanish lines sounds rather flat when translated to English.

For some Spaniards, maybe. It's a personal preference. Not to me, obviously, because I can't speak Spanish.

Perhaps I should give up. It seems the Dutch doesn't like their language very much.

I count for our entire population? Not all Dutchmen prefer English you know

Ah well, I have met lots of people here in Sweden that dislike Swedish too for some unknown reason. I guess it's because people are so used to English being the language used in all movies and games they see and play that they get totally confused when they encounter one that isn't in English.

Dutch and German are two languages I can speak and write next to English and let me tell you something, they're both MUCH harder to learn. English is a very easy and effective language.

And I certainly don't get confused when playing a Dutch game. I just don't like how it sounds, which is a preference just like I prefer a certain musical genre.

There's only one language I truly hate to listen to, though, and that's German. Probably because it sounds so... harsh and 'fat'. Hard to explain. Dutch and German sound almost the same.

--Erwin

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

For some Spaniards, maybe. It's a personal preference. Not to me, obviously, because I can't speak Spanish.

Of course it's a personal preferences, but I don't see why a translation from Spanish to Dutch would sound more flat than a translation from Spanish to English.

I count for our entire population? Not all Dutchmen prefer English you know

No, you and PolloDiablo. It wasn't that serious a remark, it's just that I don't understand why so many people prefer English before their own language.

Dutch and German are two languages I can speak and write next to English and let me tell you something, they're both MUCH harder to learn. English is a very easy and effective language.

English might be relatively easy to learn the basics of, but to fully learn the language is much more difficult, because of all the meanings and subtleties of the language.

And I certainly don't get confused when playing a Dutch game. I just don't like how it sounds, which is a preference just like I prefer a certain musical genre.

I have understood that you prefer English, but I just try to understand *why* you prefer how English sounds more than how Dutch sounds.

There's only one language I truly hate to listen to, though, and that's German. Probably because it sounds so... harsh and 'fat'. Hard to explain. Dutch and German sound almost the same.

--Erwin

You probably won't like Swedish either then.

[Erwin_Br]

Originally Posted by ragnar

Of course it's a personal preferences, but I don't see why a translation from Spanish to Dutch would sound more flat than a translation from Spanish to English.

Because you notice it more in your own language.

No, you and PolloDiablo. It wasn't that serious a remark, it's just that I don't understand why so many people prefer English before their own language.

I don't know either, but French is widely considered a very beautiful language. You could ask the same question. Why? (And I agree, French sounds good)

English might be relatively easy to learn the basics of, but to fully learn the language is much more difficult, because of all the meanings and subtleties of the language.

True, although that's something you'll learn too eventually. I'm mostly pretty quick with this sort of thing. I'm quite good at languages (as opposed to Maths)

I have understood that you prefer English, but I just try to understand *why* you prefer how English sounds more than how Dutch sounds.

That's hard to explain, actually. I mean, it's like asking why I prefer to listen to Jazz instead of Blues. Or something like that. Again, many people like the sound of the French language too. Why?

You probably won't like Swedish either then.

I don't know

--Erwin

[ragnar]

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

Because you notice it more in your own language.

Which brings us back to my theory I had some posts ago.

I don't know either, but French is widely considered a very beautiful language. You could ask the same question. Why? (And I agree, French sounds good)

But this is something we *should* think. French is beautiful and German is ugly. That's common knowledge and people who don't agree are looked upon as being strange.

True, although that's something you'll learn too eventually. I'm mostly pretty quick with this sort of thing. I'm quite good at languages (as opposed to Maths)

I do think it takes very long time to learn English that well. I think I'm fairly good at English and I tried to do some crosswords in English some time ago and it was darned difficult. Yet I am pretty confidenet that it wouldn't be that difficult for a someone speaking English natively.

That's hard to explain, actually. I mean, it's like asking why I prefer to listen to Jazz instead of Blues. Or something like that. Again, many people like the sound of the French language too. Why?

Sure, it might not be very easy to explain, but it certainly is possible to explain, but people have a tendency to brush such underlying things aside with just saying "But it's my opinion!" and don't want anyone to dig deeper.

I don't know

--Erwin

[WontonGoodsoup]

Being the hard headed American that I am...I only want english. I'm too lazy to read subtitles all the time also.
I think that it's harder to relate to a game that is not in your own language.