[Harleyhog]

Having just finished Still life one & two, and after giving up on the laser puzzle in still life one, then progressing in the game via a downloaded game save, my wife put forward an interesting hypothesis.

She observed that I had a puzzle to solve and
A: had to work out what I needed to solve the puzzle
B: Go in search of that which I needed in this case a game save, and
C: place the said object in correct folder and load save.

In doing so I had not cheated but had stayed within the true concept of an adventure game with just a bit of lateral thinking.

I of course agreed wholeheartedly and patted myself on the back for being such a resourceful chap

What say you??

[dave_minall]

You still cheated.

[Harleyhog]

^Should I go and stand on the naughty step?

[Oscar]

Does that mean looking up the solution in a walkthrough is not cheating?

[Harleyhog]

Originally Posted by Oscar

Does that mean looking up the solution in a walkthrough is not cheating?

As I Recall, the puzzle I am referring to is not about solving a quintessentially cryptic puzzle by a logical (or indeed in some games illogical) thought process.

The Laser puzzle was more about mind numbing dexterity orientated repetition, I invited comment on a conceptual notion and have so far received
two intransigent one liners

[chrissie]

Originally Posted by dave_minall

You still cheated.

Definition of cheat according to my dictionary:

1. To decieve or practise deceit, esp for one's own gain; tricking or swindling (someone)

I don't see any deception, trickery or swindling from Harleyhog using a save game!

2. To obtain unfair advantage by trickery, as in a game of cards.

Who is Harleyhog obtaining unfair advantage over?

3. To escape or avoid (something unpleasant) by luck or cunning: to cheat death

The laser puzzle could be considered unpleasant but you can procure a save game without being lucky or cunning!

4. Definitition is not applicable (to do with being unfaithful etc)

5. A person who cheats.

You'd have to fulfil the criteria of 1-3 to be considered one!

6. A deliberately dishonest transaction, esp for gain; fraud.
7. informal sham
8. law The obtaining of another's property by fraudulent means.

I don't think getting a save game to help you along can be described as any of the above unless you're in a competition & lie!

Conclusion: I have to agree with Harleyhog's prognosis!

I did actually get through that laser puzzle but I also:
A Worked out what I needed to solve that puzzle
B Went in search of what I needed - in my case a walkthrough with a step-by-step guide to the puzzle.
c Used my concentration skills to the extreme.

So, I did manage to get through that puzzle with hard work & no cheating!

[Fien]

[post removed]

[chrissie]

I knew I wasn't going to win! - wish I hadn't bothered trying now.

[Fien]

Gee, just because I posted something you don't agree with? No problem, I'll remove my post about letter and spirit.

[TerminusEst]

Ha! Everybody and their aunt are ganging up on Harleyhog the "cheater". Leave the man alone! Lots of people have skipped this particular puzzle using a savegame. I beat it on my own but grew frustrated in the process. I am, however, border-line tone deaf and I customarily skip sound puzzles - I feel no compunction whatsoever whipping out a walkthrough for one of those and do not consider it "cheating" at all. Why shouldn't people be allowed to do the same for dexterity-intensive sequences?

But this raises the following question - are we entitled to label different ways of enjoying adventure games "cheating" because we do not partake in them? Even if someone is playing a game using only the walkthrough to experience the story, what business is it of ours to call that "cheating"?

And, Fien, I totally agree with you - chrissie's was an extreme overreaction.

[Fien]

Hehehe... I guess you didn't understand what that was about. I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you.

[Harleyhog]

@chrissie I particularly enjoyed your analogy


I am pleased to see several people have grasped the point I was making,
going in search of a solution that is outside of the game, is still in the spirit of adventure gaming.

After all what is the alternative, get so frustrated that you uninstall the game throw the DVD in the bin and then go to Amazon and leave a review saying what a complete load of crap the game is and advise people not to buy it

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by Harleyhog

What say you??

I say you're from Captain Kirk's school of non-cheating.*


*Star Trek II reference

[chrissie]

Originally Posted by Fien

Gee, just because I posted something you don't agree with? No problem, I'll remove my post about letter and spirit.

Fien (& accuser of over-reacting) please don't underestimate my sense of humour!!!! I replied to Harleyhog's post tongue-in-cheek - I know that using a save game and/or a walkthrough will forever be regarded as a 'cheat' by many gamers - I don't have a problem with that & it's not important enough to really care about to be quite honest! So, on occasion I 'cheat' to get through a game - so what! -who does it matter to? (if it doesn't matter to anyone is it really a cheat? - that's the question!) But please don't remove your post - I'm not offended! & like to see different opinions!

[Harleyhog]

"I say you're from Captain Kirk's school of non-cheating."



It's a solution ascovel, but not as we know it

[Bastich]

Calling someone a cheater in a single player game is just the gaming culture equivalent of slut-shaming. It's a despicable thing to do and anyone who does it should be ashamed of themselves. It really isn't any different than using a derogatory term to refer to homosexuals because they don't play by the "rules" of heterosexual propriety.

In short, it's really sad that some people are so pathetically insecure that they equate their self-worth to "beating" games and have to denigrate others who don't do the same.

By the way, thanks for my first daily reminder of why people=shit.

[TerminusEst]

Originally Posted by chrissie

Fien (& accuser of over-reacting) please don't underestimate my sense of humour!!!! I replied to Harleyhog's post tongue-in-cheek - I know that using a save game and/or a walkthrough will forever be regarded as a 'cheat' by many gamers - I don't have a problem with that & it's not important enough to really care about to be quite honest! So, on occasion I 'cheat' to get through a game - so what! -who does it matter to? (if it doesn't matter to anyone is it really a cheat? - that's the question!) But please don't remove your post - I'm not offended! & like to see different opinions!

Chrissie, I've been misunderstood! That was a barb aimed at Fien, not you. Your reply was not unreasonable. Follow the link in my post and you will see what I was referring to. Apologies!

[chrissie]

Thanks TerminusEst - I did misunderstand - thank you for explaining!

[Fien]

Wow. I have no idea what's going on in this thread anymore. By any definition, letter or spirit, I cheat a lot in my adventures.

Hey Bastich, your sense of humor is showing!

[WitchOfDoubt]

A monkey is placed in a room with bananas dangling from the ceiling by a rope, along with three crates. The monkey is expected to move the crates to make a staircase to grab the bananas.

It stares and stares and does nothing. Eventually, the researchers give up, and one walks in to put the crates away. Instantly, the monkey scampers up his leg, jumps on his head, and grabs the bananas.

Did the monkey cheat?