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-   -   A call for more Kickstarters (https://adventuregamers.com/archive/forums/adventure/30911-call-more-kickstarters.html)

cbman 04-09-2012 10:46 AM

Wow, there really are a lot of people with money to burn here. Good for you guys, in such a poor global economy. I bet you must give a lot to charity to, seeing as you love good causes so much?

Me, i'm poor and humble and don't consider myself to be a reincarnation of Lorenzo DeMedici so I have to content myself with being able to use my very small amount of disposable income to buy the books or games I would like as an occasional treat. But it is so nice to have the pleasure of being able to read / play them once I have invested my meager earnings.

By the way guys, i'm a talented writer, but I have little time to write because I work fulltime. It would be great if you could send some money my way so I can give up my job. I promise the end result will be great. Actually, on second thoughts... I really don't like the idea of begging so forget that idea.

thejobloshow 04-09-2012 01:37 PM

Replay Games (the handsome ex-Sierra geniuses behind the Larry Kickstarter) have already reached out to Scott Murphy for the possibility of another Space Quest. Mark Crowe is currently employed by another developer so he's most likely not to jump on board with the idea, however, Scott Murphy and Josh Mandel is a lethal combination for a killer adventure game.

I like it, but.... does everything need to be on Kickstarter? Surely some of these games can attract investors on the power of their IP alone? If the Al Lowe and Jane Jensen Kickstarters prove to be successful, along with Doublefine, doesn't this prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's some money to be made in this genre?

Anyway, to get back on point - this isn't REALLY an adventure game but it does tip toe that line - if Frédérick Raynal kickstarted a Little Big Adventure 3 then 2012 will go down as the greatest year in gaming for me since 1998. Seriously, that's the one I'm holding out the crazy bucks for and I know Raynal has been trying to bring the franchise back.

plumgas 04-09-2012 08:11 PM

well I'm holding on to my money until may 15th for tex murphy. Been waiting for over 10yrs & it looks like this is"live or let die for tex."

zane 04-09-2012 08:21 PM

Tex needs an awesome pitch. Like the best pitch we've seen.

Oscar 04-09-2012 08:41 PM

Kickstarters I would give my money to:


-Gobliiins 5 or Woodruff 2

-A new Myst game

-A new Zork graphical adventure

-Sanitarium 2

-I Have No Mouth and Must Scream 2

-Journeyman Project 4

-Legend of Kyrandia 4

-Baron Wittard 2

-New Last Half of Darkness game

-A new, original adventure from the old Legend Entertainment team, preferably the exact same one that made Callahan's Crosstime Saloon.

-Limbo 2

-Something new from Unimatrix Productions. I know they're an established company but I love their games and, well, they still call themselves "indie" :) And it would be good to see some more money going into production, the graphics on the Filmmaker looked slightly dated.

-A new original Private Moon Studios game (I loved Yoomurjak's Ring so something in the vein of that, although not a sequel because the game ended perfectly)

-Finally a new RHEM game with big-budget graphics. I'd still want Knut in charge of everything but if he could affort a big team to carry out his will and capable of carrying out his artistic vision, that would be most excellent. Imagine exploring a real-time high-res RHEM world like Uru!

inm8#2 04-09-2012 10:14 PM

Don't forget a Jordan Mechner game! I'd love a spiritual successor to The Last Express.

Banter 04-10-2012 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inm8#2 (Post 607096)
Don't forget a Jordan Mechner game! I'd love a spiritual successor to The Last Express.

Seconded. Btw, I heard Paul Verhoefen was doing a sequel movie, was that cancelled? I loved the style of that game, we really don't have enough WWI fiction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar (Post 607094)
A new, original adventure from the old Legend Entertainment team, preferably the exact same one that made Callahan's Crosstime Saloon.

Ditto again. Actually, people asked Josh Mandel about it in the Larry kickstarter and he said he would love to do a Callahan's 2 and more Legend games after the Larry remake(support it!). He is posting here regularly, so give him words of encouragement if you please ;)

Also, am I the only one that would really like a Black Mirror 4? Cranberry studios was closed and I don't know who owns the rights to the series now, but that would be really nice.

Also... that "Alter Ego" game. It ended in a sequel cliffhanger and the czech studio that developed it also went under. Maybe those guys could bring it back. I enjoyed that game.

Really, the sky is the limit when it comes to kickstarters. I just wonder which projects would get enough pull to raise good money. So far the ones doing really well have big names attached to them. We will see.

Intense Degree 04-10-2012 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adventurere No.1 (Post 606886)
no doubt that Tim had started something great (reliable and actually needed) as a role model for a lot of others to follow....

I used to be an Adventurere like you.

Then I took a Kickstarter in the knee! ;)

I think that the Kickstarter thing has been a good phenomenom on the whole, but there is always going to be the problem of everyone jumping on the bandwagon. Some are very deserving (in my opinion) and some less so, I just hope that the marketplace doesn't become so flooded that the better projects miss out.

I'm also a bit worried about what this will do to the development of AG's generally. It may be that some studios will say "Why should we fund this when we can get fans to stump up at least some of the capital?". It might follow that any unknown game which can't get x hundred thousand on kickstarter is doomed before it even begins, regardless of whether it is brilliant or rubbish.

Banter 04-10-2012 04:20 AM

I hate to sound like a randroid, but let the free market take care of it. It will. As it stands, many developers who get into kickstarter will fail, fairly or unfairly. People will pay for the games they want and if not enough people want a certain game... it won't happen.

Just like always. Except this time the will of the consumer will be tested directly, and we will be saved from games being shelled because of the mistaken impressions of publishers and game executives.

GreyFuss 04-10-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banter (Post 607118)
I hate to sound like a randroid, but let the free market take care of it. It will. As it stands, many developers who get into kickstarter will fail, fairly or unfairly. People will pay for the games they want and if not enough people want a certain game... it won't happen.

Just like always. Except this time the will of the consumer will be tested directly, and we will be saved from games being shelled because of the mistaken impressions of publishers and game executives.

Very well said Banter and I couldn't agree more. Kickstarter is now an added option for gamers to decide for themselves what they want to do. For or against the idea it still boils down to what the community wants.

I haven't decided yet exactly how I feel about this trend but one thing for sure is I am not fond of the Fees. Case in point...here is an example of what it costs (the donors) to fund the successful Double Fine Project. I use them for the example, maybe unfairly*, because they are Kickstarters most successful game by far to date.

Total Dollars Funded for Project $3,336,371.00

5% Fee going to Kickstarter $166,818.00
3-5% Fee going to Amazon (using 4%) $133,454.00

Total of over $300,000.00 dollars (over a quarter million) of the communities donated money is not going to the game at all. That is more than enough to fund Jane Jensen's project alone. I realize that Kickstarter and Amazon have to make money but...wouldn't it be nice to have another option where all or a higher percentage of the money can go into a game project. Maybe something like through PayPal? Until I can get past these figures I am not sure I can be a contributor before a game is made but I certainly can be a supporter after.

Maybe my math is wrong. What do you guys think?

* The next most successful campaign at Kickstarter totaled just over $221,000,00 with close to $20,000 (twenty thousand) in Fees.

Kurufinwe 04-10-2012 07:14 AM

Honestly, if you know a publisher that only takes a 10% cut on a game's sales, you should tell companies about them, because I'm sure they'd all love to work with them. 10% is very, very reasonable.

5% for Amazon payments is pretty standard. Paypal's fees are 2.9% + $0.30, which on a $15 transaction (the majority of the Kickstarter pledges) amounts to 4.9% — and they have extra charges for international payments.

And 5% for Kickstarter is also reasonable. They offer a platform, a reputation (you're not giving your credit card number to some seedy, unknown website), tools to manage your relationship with the backers[1], ways for people having backed other projects to discover new ones, and, since the success of DFA, a very recognizable "brand" for gamers. 5% for all that doesn't strike me as unreasonable, at least for a small-ish project (obviously, if you have a $200m budget, 5% of that for a webpage and some social tools might be a bit much).

[1] Jane Jensen says on her Kickstarter page: "Why use Kickstarter? We needed help managing our CSG members. Can you imagine sending builds to 10,000+ different emails? Kickstarter manages all that for us, so we can easily run a campaign drive and post updates as often as we like."

Banter 04-10-2012 07:42 AM

Greyfuss: I also feel bad about so much of our money not going to the games we fund, but you have to look at the big picture. Managing payments and money transfers, keeping track of supporters, providing a web structure for the fund raising... if this had to be done by the developer it would cost a lot of time ,a lot of work and a lot of money. In retrospect the fee isn't really that heavy.

GreyFuss 04-10-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurufinwe (Post 607134)
Honestly, if you know a publisher that only takes a 10% cut on a game's sales, you should tell companies about them, because I'm sure they'd all love to work with them. 10% is very, very reasonable.

5% for Amazon payments is pretty standard. Paypal's fees are 2.9% + $0.30, which on a $15 transaction (the majority of the Kickstarter pledges) amounts to 4.9% — and they have extra charges for international payments.

And 5% for Kickstarter is also reasonable. They offer a platform, a reputation (you're not giving your credit card number to some seedy, unknown website), tools to manage your relationship with the backers[1], ways for people having backed other projects to discover new ones, and, since the success of DFA, a very recognizable "brand" for gamers. 5% for all that doesn't strike me as unreasonable, at least for a small-ish project (obviously, if you have a $200m budget, 5% of that for a webpage and some social tools might be a bit much).

[1] Jane Jensen says on her Kickstarter page: "Why use Kickstarter? We needed help managing our CSG members. Can you imagine sending builds to 10,000+ different emails? Kickstarter manages all that for us, so we can easily run a campaign drive and post updates as often as we like."

I guess this is where I don't see it. In my opinion the money donated is to help the developer make the game not for them to publish one. Seems as we are always hearing developers postponing and/or canceling promising adventure games because they lack the funds to finish it, not to publish it so the 10% for a publisher shouldn't make it into the equation although I respect your thought. There isn't any guarantee that after taking the funds and making a game that the developer doesn't have a publisher market it.

I actually see the Kickstarter fees as high. Now if their fees were based on the Goal to be funded and stop there then I may be able to swallow it a bit more but still find it hard. Take the Double Fine project, I think their original funding Goal was somewhere around $300,000, (I can't remember exactly) if Kickstarters fees stopped at the successful Goal ($15,000) the game developers would have gotten $150,000 more of the generously donated money to create the game we want. One hundred and fifty thousand would certainly help in making a great game. After all, Kickstarter isn't doing anything more that I can see once the Goal is reached so why not give all of the rest of our money to the developer.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Kickstarter is a bad thing or trying to influence anyone into rethinking donating, quite the opposite. It is all about choices and the more we have the more games may be funded. I just think that for the sake of discussion there may be an idea out there that can get more of those none game donations to the developer where we intended them to go and not into others pockets.

MoP 04-10-2012 07:09 PM

There's 4 adventure projects going on (let's not forget Delaware St. John), right on the heels of Double Fine, and with Tex right around the corner. If You care for any other genre, it doesn't help either.

Part of Double Fines success was people giving way more cash for a single game, than they usually spend in maybe a couple of months (I'm basing this on the fact that 1/3 of both DF and Wasteland total came from 100$ collectors edition pledges... but maybe I'm disconnected and that's how much people normally spend?). Now, when we have several campaigns going on at once (along with similar comebacks in different genres), and more in the wings, it's just impossible.

They're shooting themselves in the foot in my eyes, and it's just irritating that Jane Jensen or Al Lowe are struggling to reach their goals (I know that's an exaggeration, and they'll probably manage, but it's hard not to compare with the big guys in terms of momentum).
Instead of feeling happy for being a part of something special, it's becoming more of a nerve wrecking experience, hoping for the project to even succeed... on top of feeling like I'm missing out on some goodies because I just can't afford to pour as much into every project (this falls into what millenia and Datadog said though, it's not the devs fault, obviously). At least let people get their paychecks...

I'm thrilled with the whole idea and craze, and can't wait for more spectacular comebacks. I just wish they planned it better, instead of going all gung ho. I think I'm repeating myself here, but I'm sure there's space for everyone... just get a round-table going, set up a schedule, and then every beloved developer can have his/her Tim Schafer moment (so I'm a naive dreamer, sue me :P)

Banter 04-10-2012 09:21 PM

You people are being way too panicky. The kickstarters are doing fine, Pinkerton has nearly half the needed funds in less than a week's time. We have a long way to go.

Adventurere No.1 04-11-2012 01:18 AM

Banter this so off topic , but i think you should not go on addressing (people).. you have a comment on someone's, tag his post or direct him/her ..

i not against anything man or have any right to suggest that to you, but please just accept my advice even if you not like.

DomStLeger 04-11-2012 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbman (Post 607043)
Wow, there really are a lot of people with money to burn here. Good for you guys, in such a poor global economy. I bet you must give a lot to charity to, seeing as you love good causes so much?

Well to be fair that's the other benefit of kickstarter - the entry level is relatively low ($15-30 is ok to me, but then I do live in the UK where everything is often comparatively expensive vs abroad so perhaps its not the same elsewhere?) so that hopefully its not beyond most peoples incomes to be able to take part occasionally if they want. I doubt many people choose higher price brackets or pledge to more than 1 project.

However I totally accept that not everyone would want to go the Kickstarter route; people can still buy the game after its released once its no longer an unknown quantity. Kickstarter is not a charity; its better looked at as a 'micro-investment' for a luxury item, something which people would only do if they can afford it.

Its not begging either; I expect something in return for that money - if the developers all just took a big holiday in the Caribbean instead then I think most people would be pissed and cry fraud! But that could also be Kickstarters eventual downfall - imagine what will happen if the projects deliver something the backers don't like or don't believe is what they were sold - legal quagmire here we come? I think that's why you should only pledge if you can afford to and don't mind the possibility that you might not like what you've bought!

TimovieMan 04-11-2012 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banter
You people are being way too panicky. The kickstarters are doing fine, Pinkerton has nearly half the needed funds in less than a week's time. We have a long way to go.

The Pinkerton Road campaign is only at 25%. Yes, they're "only" shooting for 300K, but essentially they were aiming at 600K so that's the one that should count. Plus it's slowing down.
Hopefully there'll be another boost once the voting is done and Moebius comes out the winner...


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