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Old 05-16-2012, 02:50 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by inm8#2 View Post
This has simply been the most exciting few months for adventure games that I can remember. It is literally the revival we've been waiting for. I don't think adventure games ever died. Mainstream developers and publications simply focused more on other genres, but we kept the spirit alive and so did the dedicated developers. Now we don't need to care about all those publisher and business roadblocks. The developers don't need to pitch their ideas and make promises about sales. They can simply interface directly with the fans and provide the product they envision in their own preferred fashion.
I couldn't agree more... I can't remember when I have been this excited about upcoming games. Especially Jane's Kickstarter has been like my gaming dream came true - just a new game by Jane would have been enough, but in addition I'm getting all sorts of interesting goodies, 'inside view' to the developing process, artwork, music, interviews, beta testing, community... it's more than I could have asked for.

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Old 05-16-2012, 02:47 PM   #102
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^ Thanks, teme. This is one of the rare moments in my life where I feel like I'm actually on the slightly more rational side of things.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Siddhi View Post
if an indie needs 10K for a project, they dont need kickstarter. Don't tell me they can't put in 10K from their own savings or raise it from friends and family. I stay clear of all these project - Anybody raising small amounts on kickstarter just hasn't tried hard enough to raise the money - and that is a warning sign about commitment in big red letters.
I don't agree, but even if I did: Who says an indie asking 10K didn't already invest another 10K, or maybe even more? He could need the remaining 10K to close the gap. Jane Jensen also invested some of her own money into her project, so.
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Old 05-16-2012, 11:50 PM   #104
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A lifetime ago (or was it just two months?) Tim Schafer announced that he was going to make a new adventure game and that he would use Kickstarter to get donations to fund the project. It was tremendously successful, eventually raising over $3.3 million. Life was good . . .

And then everyone and their dog decided to jump on the bandwagon and use Kickstarter to fund their gaming project, asking for large amounts of money. So there's a Sherlock Holmes: Consulting Detective re-release, an upcoming new Tex Murphy game, a new Delaware St. John game, and today a Leisure Suit Larry 1 remake. And for those of us who enjoy RPGs, there's Wasteland 2, The Banner Saga, and more.
I agree with you.Companies and creators asking money from people in order to make games to SELL them?Tim Schafer started it,he deserves the money and the help but after him....why should people start funding games,ffs it's the companies and creative teams' job and task as well to fund their own games and make GOOD games to sell to people.Not for people to pay them just to make something they can sell us.It's f*cking ridiculous!
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:15 AM   #105
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Well, most of the fundraisers give you a free copy of the game and a lot of other free stuff when you support them So you could look at as a way to give the power to the consumers. We get to choose what games are made, and to show our support to the franchises we love in the process.

The Tex Murphy fundraiser is the only one I have backed, and to be quite hones, I'm not sure a new Tex game would ever have been made if a fundraiser wasn't started. So I'm glad to get the opportunity to bring it back. I try to see it as a way to preorder the game. I pay a few measly bucks, and for that I get 5 old games(costing more than I donated if I were to buy them online) AND a brand new game that I have been waiting for for 15 years. Plus a lot of other cool stuff.

Kickstarters aren't such a bad thing after all, they empower small, independent developers and consumers and give us the chance to keep old classics alive that would otherwise be left gathering dust in a drawer somewhere. If you don't wish to pledge, it's totally up to each and every one of you. I really don't see what the problem is.
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Old 05-17-2012, 12:35 AM   #106
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I agree with you.Companies and creators asking money from people in order to make games to SELL them?Tim Schafer started it,he deserves the money and the help but after him....why should people start funding games,ffs it's the companies and creative teams' job and task as well to fund their own games and make GOOD games to sell to people.Not for people to pay them just to make something they can sell us.It's f*cking ridiculous!
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:26 AM   #107
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Right...so you wanted to tell me something but you changed your mind?
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:54 AM   #108
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I think it means he/she was at a loss for words..
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:01 AM   #109
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Look,I understand that the kickstarter thing is a good way to help your favorite artists and game creators to fund their work and it's a very very new and innovative idea,but since when are players which are the customers supposed to fund the creators and/or companies to make games?The market is normally supposed to be made out of people making the games,companies that publish them and people who buy them and spend their money on these games.Having creators go like "Oh please give me 500,000 dollars so I can make you a game" you have to admit it...it's kind of weird.You know what I mean?

It's not a bad idea generally,it's a bad idea when it becomes a trend!
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:24 AM   #110
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Obviously, it's not weird to all the people who are pledging to these projects. Markets change, 10 years ago you had to buy all your games in a cardboard box in a store, and many of them you couldn't get a hold of at all. IMO this is a change for the better, but you are of course allowed to disagree. Seems people are more afraid of change than anything else, but if you can tell me any other reason why this is a bad thing, I'm ready to listen.

Embrace change

Why are trends bad?
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:28 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Foinikas View Post
It's not a bad idea generally,it's a bad idea when it becomes a trend!
Crowdfunding is already a more or less established way to raise money for projects that wouldn't see the light of day otherwise. I'm not talking about games. Or about Kickstarter, which is just one way of crowd funding.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:48 AM   #112
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Obviously, it's not weird to all the people who are pledging to these projects. Markets change, 10 years ago you had to buy all your games in a cardboard box in a store, and many of them you couldn't get a hold of at all. IMO this is a change for the better, but you are of course allowed to disagree. Seems people are more afraid of change than anything else, but if you can tell me any other reason why this is a bad thing, I'm ready to listen.

Embrace change

Why are trends bad?
Yeah markets change and I agree with that 100% it's actually a fact.But still that doesn't mean that kickstarter used by a lot of games creators is a good thing.I mean,yeah ok doe Schafer deserve it?Yeah,for 2 reasons: He's a legend and Lucasarts when it comes to AG games sank.But...if so many other creators start asking for money to make games that's like...HEY...we lost the essence here.Gaming companies are supposed to make games so that people buy them,people funding them is...so not normal.Not necessarily bad but again,like I said earlier,if many people start asking money from the players to make the games they fancy,well wtf?

As for me the only case I would give some money for a game,would be if anyone decided to continue the Vampire the Masquarade games especially Bloodlines BUT AGAIN...what if me and thousands or hundreds of thousands funded it and the budget became gazillions of dollars and in the end the game was a complete failure or if I,who funded part of it was disappointed by it?Hmm..
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:02 AM   #113
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Well, I rather be disappointed than to have no game at all, but that's just me In the end, I'm only out 50 bucks, which is nothing in the long run of my life. You feel passionate about Vampire, I feel passionate about Tex. If it comes down to who 'deserves' support, who gets to decide who deserves what? It's highly subjective and even though LucasArts is a huge part of my childhood, if I had to choose I would still pick a new Tex Murphy game because of all the fond memories they bring me.
Luckily, I don't have to choose, I get both and I'm smiling all the way to the bank. No magic or essence lost on my part, it's the best news I've had in years concerning adventure games.

If I'm disappointed, well, I guess I don't HAVE to play the game anymore, but at least I had a chance to make it a reality. Which is better than nothing.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:12 AM   #114
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I can't disagree with you because you are right and I like to think that I am right as well,it's a matter of opinion.But for me it's really weird to have people immitating Schafer and asking money from the public to make a game they want.It is...kind of weird.Kind of "cheap" too maybe?You know what I mean,people or companies who should be funding their own games,asking like puppies with big eyes from the players themselves to fund their project and have them buy it afterwards too...lol
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:17 AM   #115
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They are not "imitating" Schafer, seriously. Kickstarter and similar places existed long before DFA.

And I agree with Jawa. I rather give these great game concepts the chance, even if I eventually was disappointed.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:28 AM   #116
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I think we agree on most points, but I really think you should have another look at how these projects work. We don't fund the games and then have to buy it afterwards, we fund the games and then get the game for FREE, plus a few other games and a whole lot of other content. It's a pretty good deal actually, much better than if I had just bought the game after it came out.

And try to look at it like something great started by Tim, not something cheap copied by others
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:10 AM   #117
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I think we agree on most points, but I really think you should have another look at how these projects work. We don't fund the games and then have to buy it afterwards, we fund the games and then get the game for FREE, plus a few other games and a whole lot of other content. It's a pretty good deal actually, much better than if I had just bought the game after it came out.

And try to look at it like something great started by Tim, not something cheap copied by others
This, exactly. I see crowdfunding as a way to pre-order the game very early - so early that developers can use that money to create the game. It's also a good deal for backer, because for just 15-20 dollars you can get a full game when it's finished. Developer gets the money, backer gets the game - everybody wins. I can't understand how any adventure game fan can be against crowdfunding... we all have seen how big publishers think about adventure genre, and crowdfunding is giving the whole genre a new hope.

But if someone doesn't want to support the developer so early, it's also perfectly fine. You can still buy the game normally when it's finished. Just remember that in many cases the game exists because there are people who take part in the crowdfunding process.

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Old 05-17-2012, 07:32 AM   #118
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I agree with all of Jawa's points and with some other stuff that people have said here as well. I think Kickstarter is a brilliant idea, especially suited for niche products like Adventure games and since their developers are also offering extra incentives (rather low pre-order price, collectible goodies, various ways of participating in the production process etc.) I really can't see where the negativity is coming from. The only thing I find slightly irritating is perhaps that all of them are jumping on the KS bandwagon at the same time in order to take advantage of the current momentum but even that makes sense from a business standpoint (it's just unhealthy for my wallet )

Foinikas, I get the feeling that what bothers you is that growing up with these games you kind of "idolised" the creators as well as the industry and those "legendary" designers asking for money on KS kind of ruins your image of them. But the industry has changed radically since the '90s where they were superstars in a community of "nerds" and a new game by these people that could also do justice to their standards and reputation is not all that easy to pull off in the current market. So, give them a break and don't see this as begging for money or trying to fool people into supporting an abstract concept but as an opportunity for both parties to get what they were craving for for 10-15 years and perhaps ignite the fires once again and lead to a second coming of these talented oldtimers.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:53 AM   #119
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Kickstarter projects show us a few things that people want. There's plenty of successful old school adventures and turn based strategy games there. They are in still in quite high demand by people but the game companies aren't that interested in making them. I think it's a win-win. Paying customers can get what they want and the actual companies might even get interested in the old dusty genres as soon as they realise the potential in them.

In my opinion gaming industry has been for years chasing novelty and "innovation" and crap like that (it's not all crap of course but it is when it's done on the expense of other things) and now people can finally get their chance of getting back some brilliant old school stuff that worked then and can work now - in new games that can still be innovative in other things.
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Old 05-17-2012, 09:48 AM   #120
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Right...so you wanted to tell me something but you changed your mind?
There's a lot of anger and irrationality in your post, and I thought it's best not to even comment since your mind seems set. But, oh well...

Why should only Tim Schafer have the chance to give his fans what they want? Why should no other developers be able to fund their games with crowd support?

Anybody who follows the adventure gaming genre knows that securing funding for an AG from most publishers is a very difficult, painstaking process. Like I said some posts above, this is the best thing to happen to adventure games in a long, long time, yet people are unhappy? Boggles the mind. Will the Kickstarter trend wear out eventually? Probably, but that people can be upset about new games from legendary adventure game developers is ridiculous.

If you don't want to fund some or all of the projects, suit yourself. But quit crapping on other developers for pursuing their decade-long goals and the fans for supporting them. You think people are just flippantly throwing money at the various adventure game projects?

Ironic, as the only flippant behavior occurred when everyone threw money at Double Fine without them providing anything other than, "We want to make a point and click." The DFA kickstarter was the definition of hopping on a bandwagon without knowing anything about the project. Other developers already have designs and early production complete on their games, and you want to whine about them?

If you are upset about people giving money to developers without them providing anything substantial, you should be complaining about how much money Double Fine made without having done any work on the game. You should be saying that instead of overfunding DFA by such a large margin, the fans should have spread their money a bit more around other projects to ensure that multiple games would come to fruition, be successful, and "kickstart" the adventure gaming genre.

And when you complain about companies not producing their own games, who is the most successful company among those asking for money from Kickstarter? Oh, that's right - Double Fine, the one with 3 or 4 popular games in the last few years. But you're whining about single, individual developers asking for funds from the fans.

"Hey Guys from Andromeda, go to Activision and get $1 million from them instead of asking for it from kickstarter." That sounds so easy, it makes me wonder why developers are using kickstarter in the first place! Just go to the publisher and take a loan, they will be happy to give huge lump sums to developers who haven't made mainstream games in awhile. (that's sarcasm, in case you can't tell)

This is the best thing to happen to adventure games in quite some time. I don't know where it's going in the very long run, but the next couple of years are very promising. Yet, there are always a few people who crap on everything and raise a stink. Bummer.
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