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Old 04-29-2012, 09:10 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by rtrooney View Post
It was interesting to note that the author mentions that Kickstarter uses the term Backer rather than Investor. A Backer gets into the game expecting something more tangible, e.g., a T-shirt, than does an investor who is looking at a financial return on the money invested.
If you're looking for an actual investment via crowd funding, then there's a new company currently being set up called Gambitious.

You can read an article about it on the Penny Arcade Report.
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:13 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Siddhi View Post
Especially indie devs -- if an indie needs 10K for a project, they dont need kickstarter. Don't tell me they can't put in 10K from their own savings or raise it from friends and family. I stay clear of all these project - Anybody raising small amounts on kickstarter just hasn't tried hard enough to raise the money - and that is a warning sign about commitment in big red letters.
I disagree entirely. I figured Kickstarter was specifically intended for indie developers who needed relatively small amounts of money...
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:10 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Jatsie View Post
You can read an article about it on the Penny Arcade Report.

I still don't get all that talk about the mysterious 'actual purchase' in many recent articles about kickstarter. You're not purchasing something, you're purchasing the chance to get that something.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:38 AM   #84
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My main worry is that so many companies are jumping on the Kickstarter bandwagon before we've even seen what it can truly achieve. It's all well and good people cheering how it cuts the middleman, brings consumers closer to the developers, etc, but isn't it a bit early to celebrate when we haven't seen the fruits of its labour yet?

Whilst I have every confidence in Tim Schafer, it's only going to take that one other company to fail to meet expectations, for money donors to request their money back, and for future investors to avoid kickstarter like a rash. Then companies that could benefit, and meet expectations, may lose out as a consequence.

I'm not saying Kickstarter is a bad idea, but I'm surprised at how so many on this thread are so optimistic of a concept that's yet to give us results.

For instance, whilst I know this is a touchy subject for some, but so many gamers have gone nuts over the recent Mass Effect 3 ending milarky. People complaining that they invested X amount of money and time on a game to then complain they'd been cheated because they weren't given precisely what they were expecting. Doesn't anyone fear something similar could happen with kickstarter?

Also, anyone remember the Bad Brain Entertainment fiasco some years back? One man who made a great many promises which lead to complete disaster.

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Who cares how many kickstarter projects are coming out. If the phenomenon is such that Jane Jensen can make a new game free from the constraints of a publisher than the movement is completely justified for this gamer.
Not neccessarily so. Some artists' stories have benefit from constraints of major investors, or from having been under some form of control.

This is certainly the case in the film industry. The original ending to E.T. left the story with the alien having died. Pretty Woman was originally written to have Edward dump Viviane back on the streets (amongst other gritty elements). Many films like these benefit from contributions and ideas brought fourth by their funders.

On the flipside, after several blockbusters, director Paul Verhoeven was given backing to do pretty much whatever he wanted. His next film was Showgirls. And anyone heard of Heaven's Gate? I don't consider myself a corporate whore, but there are times when constraints or input from others can be beneficial to the final product, and us, the consumer.

Sorry if my post appears to have gone off on a tangant. I hope people see the point I'm trying to get across, which is that complete creative control doesn't always work.

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If people are fed up with it, then it will die of its own accord.
True, but if it does, I fear it won't do so quietly. It'll die with some sort of controversy.

Bottom line I think is, whilst I see Kickstart as a fantastic idea, it's a concept that's going to need trial and error, and likely some restrictions before for the protection of developers and investors, and for it to finds its place. I reckon there are going to be mistakes, and some out there suffering financially as a consequence. And with so many kickstarts appearing so quickly, the risk of several terrible mistakes my become quite high.

Finally, anyone wanna take bets on a kickstart for another Broken Sword?
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:48 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Terramax View Post
Finally, anyone wanna take bets on a kickstart for another Broken Sword?
I'd prefer one for another Beneath a Steel Sky.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Gantefoehr View Post
I still don't get all that talk about the mysterious 'actual purchase' in many recent articles about kickstarter. You're not purchasing something, you're purchasing the chance to get that something.
I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a "purchase"; Kickstarter's set up carefully to avoid any form of contractual obligations. It's more akin to a gift or a donation, but with the possibility of receiving a reward included as a gesture of thanks.
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Old 04-29-2012, 07:03 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Ascovel
But somehow I backed 2 adventure games for 2K or less: Resonance and A Life Flashes By and both resulted in most worthwhile productions. And no one did find it strange the creators used kickstarter.
Right. I really doubt the 2K covered any major costs at all. Both games were funded years ago, and at that time devs were just experimenting with it.

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I disagree entirely. I figured Kickstarter was specifically intended for indie developers who needed relatively small amounts of money...
For small amounts of money, why can't they fund it themselves?
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Old 04-30-2012, 01:40 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Siddhi View Post
For small amounts of money, why can't they fund it themselves?
Should I plan on making a game myself, and I'd need for instance about 10K, I'd need Kickstarter too. Not everyone is made out of money, and some people have a family to take care of as well.

10K is a lot of money for working class people, and it's insane to loan that amount at a bank, since there's nothing you can offer as collateral, so they'll give you their highest rates. Then it'll end up costing you almost double. That's just not worth it...
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:33 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Terramax View Post
Finally, anyone wanna take bets on a kickstart for another Broken Sword?
There has been rumors that Revolution is already working on the fifth Broken Sword... With the success of recent ports to tablets of the original BS games, I doubt they need kickstarter to finance this next installment... If they do, I'm ready to pledge some money.
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Old 04-30-2012, 10:51 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
Should I plan on making a game myself, and I'd need for instance about 10K, I'd need Kickstarter too. Not everyone is made out of money, and some people have a family to take care of as well.
Well, you havent made one, so you havent looked. If you really planned on making a game, and you seriously looked for funding, you would have found lots of sources... It's not hard to find 10K.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:08 AM   #90
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If you really planned on making a game, and you seriously looked for funding, you would have found lots of sources... It's not hard to find 10K.
Please, enlighten us.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:19 PM   #91
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With Kickstarter you just have to deliver the game (or convince people that you're going to). With any other kind of funding, you have to get your investors or creditors their money back (or at least convince them that you're going to be able to do so). That's much more difficult.

Who would have invested $10K in, e.g. Resonance at an early stage of development, and on what terms? You have a guy who's made a couple of solo freeware games, but never led a team before (not counting working with a composer). He's working on the game during his lunch breaks. The team, consisting of essentially freelancers, is spread all around the world and have never met in person. There's a schedule, but it starts slipping early on in production. Investors don't love that.

I have no idea if the funding model for Resonance (self-funding, getting the team to work for a percentage of future profits, Kickstarter, and eventually partnering with Wadjet Eye Games for production and publishing) is going to work out all that well for Vince in the end, though I hope so. But I highly doubt raising the money from outside investors from the start would have been a viable alternative.

Also, Kickstarter creates a community of backers, who will help spread the word about your game, and who can provide e.g. beta testing. And it provides early validation that there's support for what you're doing.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:56 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by After a brisk nap View Post
Who would have invested $10K in, e.g. Resonance at an early stage of development, and on what terms? You have a guy who's made a couple of solo freeware games, but never led a team before (not counting working with a composer). He's working on the game during his lunch breaks. The team, consisting of essentially freelancers, is spread all around the world and have never met in person. There's a schedule, but it starts slipping early on in production. Investors don't love that.
His goal was a mere $150 and he got over $2000. Beats me why anybody would go to all the trouble of preparing a Kickstarter project for just 150 dollars. In this particular case I agree with Siddhi. He could have found that kind of money just about anywhere.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:14 AM   #93
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$10K was the sum mentioned by Siddhi. I'm sure Vince was hoping to raise much more than $150 (which he did). Remember that this was a couple of years ago, when Kickstarter was new and relatively unknown, and it was hard to know what a realistic goal was. And remember that any pre-existing Vince Twelve fans would be AGS gamers who were used to getting games for free. It'd be hard to predict how many would be willing to put up money.

Presumably he thought it was better to set an easy goal that he was pretty sure to hit than to set a higher goal that he might miss, and end up getting nothing. $2K is not a huge sum of money, but if it pays for, let's say, 10 backgrounds (is 10 hours to create a 320x240 background, at $20/hour, a reasonable estimate?), that does go some way. (Of course, with the cuts for Kickstarter and Amazon, and fulfilling the tier awards, the actual amount of money left over for the game was considerably lower.)
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:03 PM   #94
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Well, just what I was alluding to...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...rter-is-a-Scam
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Old 05-01-2012, 01:08 PM   #95
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For those of you who aren't fatigued by Kickstarter, here's another: Cross of the Dutchman aka Grutte Pier.
Looks like a nice project, described as being an "action adventure".
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Old 05-01-2012, 08:57 PM   #96
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@afterabrisknap. Interesting arguments. IMNVHO, all the more reason NOT to go for $150. Besides, I joined Kickstarter in 2009 and if my memory serves me well nobody in his right mind asked for only 150 dollars.
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:17 PM   #97
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It happened. I ran out of money. I can't support Cross of the Dutchman - which looks rad. I think it's the first one I've been unable to support.

I put aside some for Tex, though, so don't worry.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:24 AM   #98
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Yeah, I'm not really looking into new projects at all. I want to dish out as much as possible to Jane and when it's done it's time for Tex. I really have nothing to spare even though the place is full of somewhat interesting projects I would like to see get funded.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #99
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Default Hitler Reacts to Kickstarter

Light moment of the day; It seems the Kickstarter fenzy has gotten all the way to Hitler's ears:

Hitler Reacts to Kickstarter

Cheers
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:51 PM   #100
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I didn't want to create another Kickstarter thread, but this seems to be the only "general discussion" thread on the topic.

Anyway, I have a strong feeling Jordan Mechner is cooking up something. Maybe not a sequel to The Last Express, but perhaps a new adventure or action-adventure. I really think we'll see him on kickstarter by the end of the year, but I would think that the adventure game community is tapped out at least through the summer.

Double Fine blew the whole thing open. Jane has met her goal. Larry made it. Tex looks like he'll make it. Spaceventure is difficult to judge at this moment but the fans will come through by the end. Then there are the non-adventures like Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns, among others.

This has simply been the most exciting few months for adventure games that I can remember. It is literally the revival we've been waiting for. I don't think adventure games ever died. Mainstream developers and publications simply focused more on other genres, but we kept the spirit alive and so did the dedicated developers. Now we don't need to care about all those publisher and business roadblocks. The developers don't need to pitch their ideas and make promises about sales. They can simply interface directly with the fans and provide the product they envision in their own preferred fashion.

I'm a bit overwhelmed, too, and I've had to restrain myself from higher pledge tiers that sound so enticing. However, this is all going to pay off in the long run. And with Jane creating her own studio, we may see this type of funding move beyond kickstarter.

Enjoy it, fellow adventure gamers. This is truly a special time. It saddens me to see the various negativity around some of these projects. Constructive criticism can be helpful, but some of the discussions degenerate into what I equate to the entitlement that many of the other gaming communities exhibit. Let's be civil, let's be excited, and let's all agree that the future of adventure games is bright.
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