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You can read an article about it on the Penny Arcade Report. |
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I still don't get all that talk about the mysterious 'actual purchase' in many recent articles about kickstarter. You're not purchasing something, you're purchasing the chance to get that something. |
My main worry is that so many companies are jumping on the Kickstarter bandwagon before we've even seen what it can truly achieve. It's all well and good people cheering how it cuts the middleman, brings consumers closer to the developers, etc, but isn't it a bit early to celebrate when we haven't seen the fruits of its labour yet?
Whilst I have every confidence in Tim Schafer, it's only going to take that one other company to fail to meet expectations, for money donors to request their money back, and for future investors to avoid kickstarter like a rash. Then companies that could benefit, and meet expectations, may lose out as a consequence. I'm not saying Kickstarter is a bad idea, but I'm surprised at how so many on this thread are so optimistic of a concept that's yet to give us results. For instance, whilst I know this is a touchy subject for some, but so many gamers have gone nuts over the recent Mass Effect 3 ending milarky. People complaining that they invested X amount of money and time on a game to then complain they'd been cheated because they weren't given precisely what they were expecting. Doesn't anyone fear something similar could happen with kickstarter? Also, anyone remember the Bad Brain Entertainment fiasco some years back? One man who made a great many promises which lead to complete disaster. Quote:
This is certainly the case in the film industry. The original ending to E.T. left the story with the alien having died. Pretty Woman was originally written to have Edward dump Viviane back on the streets (amongst other gritty elements). Many films like these benefit from contributions and ideas brought fourth by their funders. On the flipside, after several blockbusters, director Paul Verhoeven was given backing to do pretty much whatever he wanted. His next film was Showgirls. And anyone heard of Heaven's Gate? I don't consider myself a corporate whore, but there are times when constraints or input from others can be beneficial to the final product, and us, the consumer. Sorry if my post appears to have gone off on a tangant. I hope people see the point I'm trying to get across, which is that complete creative control doesn't always work. Quote:
Bottom line I think is, whilst I see Kickstart as a fantastic idea, it's a concept that's going to need trial and error, and likely some restrictions before for the protection of developers and investors, and for it to finds its place. I reckon there are going to be mistakes, and some out there suffering financially as a consequence. And with so many kickstarts appearing so quickly, the risk of several terrible mistakes my become quite high. Finally, anyone wanna take bets on a kickstart for another Broken Sword? |
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10K is a lot of money for working class people, and it's insane to loan that amount at a bank, since there's nothing you can offer as collateral, so they'll give you their highest rates. Then it'll end up costing you almost double. That's just not worth it... |
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With Kickstarter you just have to deliver the game (or convince people that you're going to). With any other kind of funding, you have to get your investors or creditors their money back (or at least convince them that you're going to be able to do so). That's much more difficult.
Who would have invested $10K in, e.g. Resonance at an early stage of development, and on what terms? You have a guy who's made a couple of solo freeware games, but never led a team before (not counting working with a composer). He's working on the game during his lunch breaks. The team, consisting of essentially freelancers, is spread all around the world and have never met in person. There's a schedule, but it starts slipping early on in production. Investors don't love that. I have no idea if the funding model for Resonance (self-funding, getting the team to work for a percentage of future profits, Kickstarter, and eventually partnering with Wadjet Eye Games for production and publishing) is going to work out all that well for Vince in the end, though I hope so. But I highly doubt raising the money from outside investors from the start would have been a viable alternative. Also, Kickstarter creates a community of backers, who will help spread the word about your game, and who can provide e.g. beta testing. And it provides early validation that there's support for what you're doing. |
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$10K was the sum mentioned by Siddhi. I'm sure Vince was hoping to raise much more than $150 (which he did). Remember that this was a couple of years ago, when Kickstarter was new and relatively unknown, and it was hard to know what a realistic goal was. And remember that any pre-existing Vince Twelve fans would be AGS gamers who were used to getting games for free. It'd be hard to predict how many would be willing to put up money.
Presumably he thought it was better to set an easy goal that he was pretty sure to hit than to set a higher goal that he might miss, and end up getting nothing. $2K is not a huge sum of money, but if it pays for, let's say, 10 backgrounds (is 10 hours to create a 320x240 background, at $20/hour, a reasonable estimate?), that does go some way. (Of course, with the cuts for Kickstarter and Amazon, and fulfilling the tier awards, the actual amount of money left over for the game was considerably lower.) |
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For those of you who aren't fatigued by Kickstarter, here's another: Cross of the Dutchman aka Grutte Pier.
Looks like a nice project, described as being an "action adventure". |
@afterabrisknap. Interesting arguments. IMNVHO, all the more reason NOT to go for $150. Besides, I joined Kickstarter in 2009 and if my memory serves me well nobody in his right mind asked for only 150 dollars.
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It happened. I ran out of money. I can't support Cross of the Dutchman - which looks rad. I think it's the first one I've been unable to support.
I put aside some for Tex, though, so don't worry. |
Yeah, I'm not really looking into new projects at all. I want to dish out as much as possible to Jane and when it's done it's time for Tex. I really have nothing to spare even though the place is full of somewhat interesting projects I would like to see get funded.
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Hitler Reacts to Kickstarter
Light moment of the day; It seems the Kickstarter fenzy has gotten all the way to Hitler's ears:
Hitler Reacts to Kickstarter Cheers |
I didn't want to create another Kickstarter thread, but this seems to be the only "general discussion" thread on the topic.
Anyway, I have a strong feeling Jordan Mechner is cooking up something. Maybe not a sequel to The Last Express, but perhaps a new adventure or action-adventure. I really think we'll see him on kickstarter by the end of the year, but I would think that the adventure game community is tapped out at least through the summer. Double Fine blew the whole thing open. Jane has met her goal. Larry made it. Tex looks like he'll make it. Spaceventure is difficult to judge at this moment but the fans will come through by the end. Then there are the non-adventures like Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun Returns, among others. This has simply been the most exciting few months for adventure games that I can remember. It is literally the revival we've been waiting for. I don't think adventure games ever died. Mainstream developers and publications simply focused more on other genres, but we kept the spirit alive and so did the dedicated developers. Now we don't need to care about all those publisher and business roadblocks. The developers don't need to pitch their ideas and make promises about sales. They can simply interface directly with the fans and provide the product they envision in their own preferred fashion. I'm a bit overwhelmed, too, and I've had to restrain myself from higher pledge tiers that sound so enticing. However, this is all going to pay off in the long run. And with Jane creating her own studio, we may see this type of funding move beyond kickstarter. Enjoy it, fellow adventure gamers. This is truly a special time. It saddens me to see the various negativity around some of these projects. Constructive criticism can be helpful, but some of the discussions degenerate into what I equate to the entitlement that many of the other gaming communities exhibit. Let's be civil, let's be excited, and let's all agree that the future of adventure games is bright. |
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^ Thanks, teme. This is one of the rare moments in my life where I feel like I'm actually on the slightly more rational side of things.
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Well, most of the fundraisers give you a free copy of the game and a lot of other free stuff when you support them So you could look at as a way to give the power to the consumers. We get to choose what games are made, and to show our support to the franchises we love in the process.
The Tex Murphy fundraiser is the only one I have backed, and to be quite hones, I'm not sure a new Tex game would ever have been made if a fundraiser wasn't started. So I'm glad to get the opportunity to bring it back. I try to see it as a way to preorder the game. I pay a few measly bucks, and for that I get 5 old games(costing more than I donated if I were to buy them online) AND a brand new game that I have been waiting for for 15 years. Plus a lot of other cool stuff. Kickstarters aren't such a bad thing after all, they empower small, independent developers and consumers and give us the chance to keep old classics alive that would otherwise be left gathering dust in a drawer somewhere. If you don't wish to pledge, it's totally up to each and every one of you. I really don't see what the problem is. |
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Right...so you wanted to tell me something but you changed your mind?
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I think it means he/she was at a loss for words..
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Look,I understand that the kickstarter thing is a good way to help your favorite artists and game creators to fund their work and it's a very very new and innovative idea,but since when are players which are the customers supposed to fund the creators and/or companies to make games?The market is normally supposed to be made out of people making the games,companies that publish them and people who buy them and spend their money on these games.Having creators go like "Oh please give me 500,000 dollars so I can make you a game" you have to admit it...it's kind of weird.You know what I mean?
It's not a bad idea generally,it's a bad idea when it becomes a trend! |
Obviously, it's not weird to all the people who are pledging to these projects. Markets change, 10 years ago you had to buy all your games in a cardboard box in a store, and many of them you couldn't get a hold of at all. IMO this is a change for the better, but you are of course allowed to disagree. Seems people are more afraid of change than anything else, but if you can tell me any other reason why this is a bad thing, I'm ready to listen.
Embrace change:) Why are trends bad? |
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As for me the only case I would give some money for a game,would be if anyone decided to continue the Vampire the Masquarade games especially Bloodlines BUT AGAIN...what if me and thousands or hundreds of thousands funded it and the budget became gazillions of dollars and in the end the game was a complete failure or if I,who funded part of it was disappointed by it?Hmm.. |
Well, I rather be disappointed than to have no game at all, but that's just me:) In the end, I'm only out 50 bucks, which is nothing in the long run of my life. You feel passionate about Vampire, I feel passionate about Tex. If it comes down to who 'deserves' support, who gets to decide who deserves what? It's highly subjective and even though LucasArts is a huge part of my childhood, if I had to choose I would still pick a new Tex Murphy game because of all the fond memories they bring me.
Luckily, I don't have to choose, I get both and I'm smiling all the way to the bank. No magic or essence lost on my part, it's the best news I've had in years concerning adventure games. If I'm disappointed, well, I guess I don't HAVE to play the game anymore, but at least I had a chance to make it a reality. Which is better than nothing. |
I can't disagree with you because you are right and I like to think that I am right as well,it's a matter of opinion.But for me it's really weird to have people immitating Schafer and asking money from the public to make a game they want.It is...kind of weird.Kind of "cheap" too maybe?You know what I mean,people or companies who should be funding their own games,asking like puppies with big eyes from the players themselves to fund their project and have them buy it afterwards too...lol
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They are not "imitating" Schafer, seriously. Kickstarter and similar places existed long before DFA.
And I agree with Jawa. I rather give these great game concepts the chance, even if I eventually was disappointed. |
I think we agree on most points, but I really think you should have another look at how these projects work. We don't fund the games and then have to buy it afterwards, we fund the games and then get the game for FREE, plus a few other games and a whole lot of other content. It's a pretty good deal actually, much better than if I had just bought the game after it came out.
And try to look at it like something great started by Tim, not something cheap copied by others;) |
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But if someone doesn't want to support the developer so early, it's also perfectly fine. You can still buy the game normally when it's finished. Just remember that in many cases the game exists because there are people who take part in the crowdfunding process. |
I agree with all of Jawa's points and with some other stuff that people have said here as well. I think Kickstarter is a brilliant idea, especially suited for niche products like Adventure games and since their developers are also offering extra incentives (rather low pre-order price, collectible goodies, various ways of participating in the production process etc.) I really can't see where the negativity is coming from. The only thing I find slightly irritating is perhaps that all of them are jumping on the KS bandwagon at the same time in order to take advantage of the current momentum but even that makes sense from a business standpoint (it's just unhealthy for my wallet :frown:)
Foinikas, I get the feeling that what bothers you is that growing up with these games you kind of "idolised" the creators as well as the industry and those "legendary" designers asking for money on KS kind of ruins your image of them. But the industry has changed radically since the '90s where they were superstars in a community of "nerds" and a new game by these people that could also do justice to their standards and reputation is not all that easy to pull off in the current market. So, give them a break and don't see this as begging for money or trying to fool people into supporting an abstract concept but as an opportunity for both parties to get what they were craving for for 10-15 years and perhaps ignite the fires once again and lead to a second coming of these talented oldtimers. |
Kickstarter projects show us a few things that people want. There's plenty of successful old school adventures and turn based strategy games there. They are in still in quite high demand by people but the game companies aren't that interested in making them. I think it's a win-win. Paying customers can get what they want and the actual companies might even get interested in the old dusty genres as soon as they realise the potential in them.
In my opinion gaming industry has been for years chasing novelty and "innovation" and crap like that (it's not all crap of course but it is when it's done on the expense of other things) and now people can finally get their chance of getting back some brilliant old school stuff that worked then and can work now - in new games that can still be innovative in other things. |
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Why should only Tim Schafer have the chance to give his fans what they want? Why should no other developers be able to fund their games with crowd support? Anybody who follows the adventure gaming genre knows that securing funding for an AG from most publishers is a very difficult, painstaking process. Like I said some posts above, this is the best thing to happen to adventure games in a long, long time, yet people are unhappy? Boggles the mind. Will the Kickstarter trend wear out eventually? Probably, but that people can be upset about new games from legendary adventure game developers is ridiculous. If you don't want to fund some or all of the projects, suit yourself. But quit crapping on other developers for pursuing their decade-long goals and the fans for supporting them. You think people are just flippantly throwing money at the various adventure game projects? Ironic, as the only flippant behavior occurred when everyone threw money at Double Fine without them providing anything other than, "We want to make a point and click." The DFA kickstarter was the definition of hopping on a bandwagon without knowing anything about the project. Other developers already have designs and early production complete on their games, and you want to whine about them? :crazy: If you are upset about people giving money to developers without them providing anything substantial, you should be complaining about how much money Double Fine made without having done any work on the game. You should be saying that instead of overfunding DFA by such a large margin, the fans should have spread their money a bit more around other projects to ensure that multiple games would come to fruition, be successful, and "kickstart" the adventure gaming genre. And when you complain about companies not producing their own games, who is the most successful company among those asking for money from Kickstarter? Oh, that's right - Double Fine, the one with 3 or 4 popular games in the last few years. But you're whining about single, individual developers asking for funds from the fans. "Hey Guys from Andromeda, go to Activision and get $1 million from them instead of asking for it from kickstarter." That sounds so easy, it makes me wonder why developers are using kickstarter in the first place! Just go to the publisher and take a loan, they will be happy to give huge lump sums to developers who haven't made mainstream games in awhile. (that's sarcasm, in case you can't tell) This is the best thing to happen to adventure games in quite some time. I don't know where it's going in the very long run, but the next couple of years are very promising. Yet, there are always a few people who crap on everything and raise a stink. Bummer. |
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