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Old 03-31-2012, 04:20 AM   #1
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Default Wizarbox and Feminism ?

surely all noticed that all Wizarbox games until this moment with their latest release of captain Morgane are all with female heroes ... don't get me wrong but its sorta of weird (at least for me?)

i dont know how is it like the CEO of Wizarbox, but i guess (She) likes it this way, maybe as a Company specialization, a direction for marketing or ....is it something personal

as i remember Roberta Williams had made King Graham as she also made ,Rosella ,Alex and Laura Bow


nothing here in this thread to be taken with or against (so please posters dont try to suggest!) i am just confirming something i noticed and surely not alone !
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Last edited by Adventurere No.1; 03-31-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 04:44 AM   #2
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If the comany was feminist then the characters wouldn't be hot chicks with their big boobs hanging out.

This is what a feminist character would look like:

http://podkopayevaandpiskun.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/law-offices-charity-bar.jpg
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:10 AM   #3
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i dont think feminist doesn't only concerns ugly women , i guess it all about that Females can be Pirates , detectives however they look like ,its more about the equal political, economic, and social rights same as men in general .

But honestly Schneckchen ^.^ that photo wasn't funny
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Old 03-31-2012, 05:53 AM   #4
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The market is so saturated with male main characters that if a company makes a few games with female protagonists people think its radical. Sad.
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Adventurere No.1 View Post
i dont think feminist doesn't only concerns ugly women , i guess it all about that Females can be Pirates , detectives however they look like ,its more about the equal political, economic, and social rights same as men in general .

But honestly Schneckchen ^.^ that photo wasn't funny
I have to disagree with you Adventurere, I think Schneckchen's photo is hilarious! I'd love to see an AG developed with someone like her as the main character!

Its not unusual for the protagonists in many adventure games to be strong females but they do mostly tend to be portrayed as perfectly proportioned, young & beautiful!

I don't know what other games Wizarbox have produced apart from Gray Matter which I've played & Captain Morgane which I haven't yet?

EDIT: I see that they also produced So Blonde so there are just the 3 Ags which all have female lead characters but other genre games they produce don't necessarily!

Last edited by chrissie; 03-31-2012 at 08:45 AM. Reason: Looked up Wizarbox
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:50 AM   #6
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I'd like to play some Ms. Marple games for instance, or to be Doctor Who's companion Donna. Or any interesting and different character that is previously unknown.

I also think it's rather sad that someone actually notices the use of female characters, especially as they are all so "normal" (=young, slim and beautiful). There really isn't anything notable in that.
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Old 03-31-2012, 08:55 AM   #7
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I'd love to see an AG developed with someone like her as the main character!
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T'was an adventure alright!
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:14 AM   #8
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Didn't she make a cameo appearance in Full Throttle?
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #9
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There are plenty of young people, male & female, who aren't slim or beautiful but exude the charm of youth! There are also a lot of people ranging from older to elderly, male & female, who are maybe slim & attractive, or maybe not, that exude the charm of wisdom & experience, or maybe not! They all make up our human race but as with films, games tend to use appealing central characters that are usually, if not always, exceptionally stunning with amazing skills many of which would usually be acquired with age & experience - so no, I don't agree that the use of young beautiful people in their roles presented in games is always normal or realistic!

I watch films & play games to get immersed in the stories so I don't mind how the characters are portrayed as long as the tale is well told & good enough to make the protagonists believable!
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Old 03-31-2012, 09:33 AM   #10
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T'was an adventure alright!
Thank you TiAgUh for your very kind recommendation but I was more thinking of a a fully clothed character who liked biking & smoking cigars, in a serious adventure, where they weren't just about to be run over by a truck!
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:37 PM   #11
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Even when there's a female lead in an adventure, very few adventure games address how this changes they way people react to her. Often, it's just a marketing choice.

Grace Nakimura needs a solo adventure.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #12
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Its not unusual for the protagonists in many adventure games to be strong females but they do mostly tend to be portrayed as perfectly proportioned, young & beautiful!
Almost the same thing could largely be said about male heros too. Most heros, male or female, are young and at least decent looking. In adventure games it's usually young, smart looking guys as opposed to the physically strong heros with perfect abs you see in action games. But very rarely is the hero a fat slob.

The main difference is guys don't really care. They don't take issue with the fact most heros in action games have huge muscles and a perfect body that is nearly impossible to have in real life (especially not by playing video games.) Whereas lots of women create a storm over barbie dolls, says it hurts girls self-esteem. But what about Ken?

But you know what you NEVER see in adventure games: a black guy (or girl) as the main hero. Can anyone name one? I know in actions games there are some, but I don't think I've ever seen it in an adventure game.

Last edited by Puzzler; 04-07-2012 at 07:15 PM.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:13 PM   #13
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It is true, feminist characters would be lesbianic überfrauen such as Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor. You don't see many of those as videogame leads.

Btw, nothing wrong with lead female characters, as long as they are interesting. I have to say, most lead videogame ladies kind of look the same. Unlike the male characters, they are usually devoid of character flaws or any unique traits... very one dimensional all around.
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Old 04-07-2012, 07:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzzler View Post
But you know what you NEVER see in adventure games: a black guy (or girl) as the main hero. Can anyone name one? I know in actions games there are some, but I don't think I've ever seen it in an adventure game.
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Old 04-07-2012, 08:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Puzzler View Post
But you know what you NEVER see in adventure games: a black guy (or girl) as the main hero. Can anyone name one? I know in actions games there are some, but I don't think I've ever seen it in an adventure game.


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Old 04-08-2012, 01:57 AM   #16
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Almost the same thing could largely be said about male heros too. Most heros, male or female, are young and at least decent looking. In adventure games it's usually young, smart looking guys as opposed to the physically strong heros with perfect abs you see in action games. But very rarely is the hero a fat slob.
It happens now and then. Sometimes a male hero will be a handsome slob with messy hair and a cluttered room. Other times he'll be neat and presentable, but not too handsome. Or he might be a clumsy space janitor or a dorky pirate wannabe - there's VARIETY there.

How many adventure game heroines are allowed to just be kind of clever-but-dorky, and not at all idealized as objects of attraction? I count Laverne from Day of the Tentacle, and maybe a few others, but it's not many.

But a heroine who isn't both pretty and well-organized? Heaven forbid. Gabriel Knight can have a messy room and leave junk around, but Grace Nakimura can't.

Quote:
The main difference is guys don't really care. They don't take issue with the fact most heros in action games have huge muscles and a perfect body that is nearly impossible to have in real life (especially not by playing video games.)
If guys didn't care, then we wouldn't see so many action games with cookie-cutter heroes with muscular physiques. I'd guess that a lot of guys care in the other direction - they want to play a hero with certain physical characters. Some women probably do, too, but I don't think I've seen any evidence that this has been as much of a character design-shaping force.

Why do some men want to play characters with that physique, but some women object when heroines are given big breasts and revealing clothing? Well, a "perfect body" for a male hero is one that lets him beat people up and have adventures and do things, while a "perfect body" for a heroine is one that makes her look attractive to guys.

(And quite possibly causes her serious back injuries.)

Quote:
Whereas lots of women create a storm over barbie dolls, says it hurts girls self-esteem. But what about Ken?
Quite a few women have noted that Ken is also problematic. It's not a matter of "men versus women" or "feminists versus game designers." Lousy depictions of women tend to go hand-in-hand with lousy depictions of men.

I don't want interesting and different female characters because I'm a feminist; I want interesting and different female characters because they are interesting and different.

Quote:
It is true, feminist characters would be lesbianic überfrauen such as Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor. You don't see many of those as videogame leads.
Like these lesbian uberfrauen?


Laura Bow deals with 1920's sexism from the introduction onwards.

If we're willing to include action games with some adventure-y elements:


Jade bares her midriff and has a pretty physique, but fights a regime with a camera as much as she does with her staff. Also, she gets genuine character development!

And don't forget a game that made a few feminist points with the subtlety of a mammoth stomping on the player:


Kate Walker breaks free of a controlling boyfriend and male authority in general to go on a search for mammoths.

See also Ellen, above.

At this point, a "feminist female character" is pretty much any female lead who has believable goals that don't neatly fit a male demographic's expectations.

Quote:
Btw, nothing wrong with lead female characters, as long as they are interesting. I have to say, most lead videogame ladies kind of look the same. Unlike the male characters, they are usually devoid of character flaws or any unique traits... very one dimensional all around.
Uninteresting leads naturally happen when designers take a hero or heroine and turn them into a vehicle to fulfill someone else's fantasies, with no internal motivation or agency of their own.

An action game hero whose only reason for being is "to be a badass so that we can feel badass" is not going to have much depth.

A heroine whose main reason for being is to be "as appealing as possible to a largely male demographic" is going to be boring. A protagonist should have agency - the sense of acting towards real goals of their own that relate deeply to their personality. "Find the artifact" and "save the world" don't count; those are too generic.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Puzzler View Post
Most heros, male or female, are young and at least decent looking. In adventure games it's usually young, smart looking guys as opposed to the physically strong heros with perfect abs you see in action games. But very rarely is the hero a fat slob.
Eg Hector: Badge of Carnage (already the 1st picture reminded me this trilogy somehow). And it was reasonably successful.

Regarding Wizarbox - i wouldn't say they are feminist. Just a coincidence. So Blonde was just their original concept, Gray Matter with its woman lead came from Jensen and Captain Morgane just uses So Blonde formula. I would say its just mix of coincidences and sensible business logics.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:56 AM   #18
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Regarding Wizarbox - i wouldn't say they are feminist. Just a coincidence. So Blonde was just their original concept, Gray Matter with its woman lead came from Jensen and Captain Morgane just uses So Blonde formula. I would say its just mix of coincidences and sensible business logics.
you are right but you must consider than i live in Egypt where just to stress on women role into the normal action of life,media,politics....etc would be considered a Feminism action, for example we do not have one Female minister, so when when riot pushes one to go for that position then it is a feminist action .... i know it might be weird ...
when Wizarbox tend to make three Adventures in row with Female heroes ,i didnt think (imo) its just a coincidence
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:36 PM   #19
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you are right but you must consider than i live in Egypt where just to stress on women role into the normal action of life,media,politics....etc would be considered a Feminism action, for example we do not have one Female minister, so when when riot pushes one to go for that position then it is a feminist action .... i know it might be weird ...
when Wizarbox tend to make three Adventures in row with Female heroes ,i didnt think (imo) its just a coincidence
I think many of us come from a culture where women are recognised as having the intelligence & abilites to contribute to society & the economic & political world on a par with their male counterparts. It's a tough road for the women that get to the top & there are still very many who prefer to live their life in a traditional role! But the opportunities are there & I don't see the games as deliberately feminist but just reflecting the freedom of choice for, & capabilites of, women that exist in many parts of the world. From that point of view I don't see anything unusual or deliberate about having 3 female heroes - I just see the games as stories the developer wanted to tell that better suited using female protagonists! I can see though, from the culture you're from, why you have a different view.

I've just played more than 3 games in a row with male leads - it all balances out!
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Old 04-09-2012, 01:00 PM   #20
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Should there maybe be a thread called:

Have all Wizarbox games a horrible cutscene style?

I have only played Gray Matter, but from what I see from the trailers of So Blonde and Captain Morgan, this horrible cheap style seems to leak through to all of their games?

Mind you, I can't confirm it as I haven't played all of their games, but it surely seems so....Maybe they really think it looks good?

All I see is graphic novel style, no real animations, no lip sync, paper cut objects seemingly moved by hand, style cutscenes....

Is it just me, or do other people appreciate this style? Is it cheap or art? I'm not quite sure, but I don't like it...and it takes away the cinematic feel the rest of game may still offer.

How can you bring accross emotional moments in such a style?
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