Wizarbox and Feminism ? - Page 3 - Adventure Forums
You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers

Home Adventure Forums Gaming Adventure Wizarbox and Feminism ?


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-10-2012, 10:59 AM   #41
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aimless View Post
Totally
Banter, get off it.
Oh please, let me have some fun.

Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #42
Member
 
VampireNaomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
Well what do you suggest? Should we petition the vatican to sanctify Paris Hilton? Make a statue of her in central manhattan?
I never said anyone needs to be glorified because of their sex life. Just not getting nasty comments or looks would be enough.

Quote:
Oh boy, you feminists should try embracing reality sometimes. Men and women are different. And that difference amounts to much more than penis, balls and vaginas.
So what is so different about men and women that it's okay to label a woman a sl*ut because she had a one-night stand over the weekend when a man in the same situation gets pats on the back from his friends? And I don't buy your biology argument. It's just an excuse to keep trying to force women into the mould that you want us to stay in.

As for the forced equality argument, what are the things that men have that you don't think women are capable of having?
VampireNaomi is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:08 AM   #43
lost in rubacava
 
aimless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 322
Default

"Oh please, let me have some fun."

Why, because you're a male and males are made to have fun?

Your language is offensive and your ideas are even more so.

Pack it in.

Last edited by aimless; 04-10-2012 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Making it clear who I'm replying to.
aimless is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:22 AM   #44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNaomi View Post
I never said anyone needs to be glorified because of their sex life. Just not getting nasty comments or looks would be enough.
You are confusing human nature with an imaginary gender bias. Trust me, you will get "nasty comments or looks" for much less than that regardless of your gender and lifting the banner of radical feminism isn't changing anything anytime soon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VampireNaomi View Post
As for the forced equality argument, what are the things that men have that you don't think women are capable of having?
How about the things that women can do and men can't? I'm sure before you finish reading the sentence you will think of many. Please, don't stray from rational thought. Men and women are different an it is an insane folly to indicate otherwise. Really, the difference is not in terms of superior/inferior as feminists seem to consider(and take offense). You don't have to fight it.

But oh, I don't want this to get out of hand. I don't think I have been offensive but I know PC types are real sensitive. Naomi, how about we shake hands and quit this senseless off-topic discussion and get back to discussing female lead characters in videogames? This really isn't leading nowhere.

I think you will find this humorous comparison between men and women enlightening though. Feel free to comment it. Words by the great Al Lowe:


http://www.allowe.com/Humor/book/Men%20versus%20Women.htm



Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:28 AM   #45
Member
 
VampireNaomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 35
Default

Without spending a long time thinking about it, the only things I can come up with that cis women can do but men can't are getting pregnant, giving birth and breastfeeding. These have nothing do with judging someone's sexual life, equal pay or any of the other main issues of feminism.

But fine, I'm tired of debating this because I don't think we're ever going to see eye to eye on any of this.
VampireNaomi is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:29 AM   #46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Did you try the Al Lowe link? Trust me, you will spot more differences

http://www.allowe.com/Humor/book/Men%20versus%20Women.htm
Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:38 AM   #47
Member
 
VampireNaomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 35
Default

Yeah, I tried it. Some got a chuckle out of me, but there were many that I think were completely backwards. I have nothing against humour about generalizations, but I just don't get some of these because jokes like these need some truth behind them to be funny, and I can't see any in some of these.
VampireNaomi is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:40 AM   #48
lost in rubacava
 
aimless's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 322
Default

"I don't think I have been offensive but I know PC types are real sensitive."

I've got news for you, pal, that was offensive right there. Your smug sense of superiority is unbelievable and I hope VampireNaomi sticks to her guns and leaves you there talking to yourself. I'm sure you'd enjoy that more anyway.
aimless is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:45 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
WitchOfDoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Default

Making a point-by-point refutation of Banter's post would be a waste of my time.

And I just counted the male-female ratio of 50 adventure games.

Prediction: If anyone actually bothers to refute Banter with solid evidence, he'll say he was just trolling for a laugh. If nobody refutes him, he'll claim victory. Either way, the only way to win is to pretend he isn't here.

(Edited to remove a pointless comparison and get to the point.)
__________________
The Sapphire Witch cordially invites you to a labyrinth of riddles and mysteries, The Witch's Epigraph.

Last edited by WitchOfDoubt; 04-10-2012 at 11:52 AM.
WitchOfDoubt is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:46 AM   #50
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Erm... I'm lost as to where I offended you or came off as having "sense of superiority", aimless. Either way the discussion is over and it seems you are presenting what is popularly called "butthurt".

Don't be
Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #51
Senior Member
 
WitchOfDoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Default

Wow. That's the fastest that any of my predictions has EVER been confirmed. I am rocking the scientific thinking today, hell yes.

(post reported; "You're just butthurt" is pretty much a confession that the poster was setting out to troll the topic.)
__________________
The Sapphire Witch cordially invites you to a labyrinth of riddles and mysteries, The Witch's Epigraph.
WitchOfDoubt is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #52
Senior Member
 
chrissie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post

.....Just think about this: in the best part of the first hald of 20th century a man working on a factory could support a large family, own a large house, a good car and fill the pine three to the top every Christmas. How are things today? As a woman, do you think you would receive more respect now or then? When was the last time soneone opened the door for you? When was the last time someone treated you like shit? Because let me tell you, back in the day even a dock worker knew that not treating a lady as a jewel would be a serious social offense in a good neighbourhood. Now many women are objects, disposable human condoms or mannish copies that can compete. Things sure are great for you..........
I tend to think Banter that you have a very idealistic & uninformed view!

My grandfather worked in a factory in the 1st half of the century. He worked 6 days a week & managed to buy a small terraced property for his wife & 3 children. He couldn't afford a car & as for filling the pine trees to the top every Christmas - no way! Money was tight & holidays, which consisted of a day trip to a seaside resort a couple of times of year, had to be saved up for! I'm sure this was typical of many families at the time.

My grandfather was a good man but you talk about dock workers treating a lady like a jewel in a good neighbourhood! That is such a generalisation! - through the ages many women just haven't been treated like jewels by men regardless of their social standing or whether it was a good/bad neighbourhood. The fact is that they have had to put up with disrespect and/or abuse in an era where they had no alternative but to put up with it & keep their mouths shut! Sadly, even in the Western World this situation continues despite the opportunities for women.

The 'sex and the city' lifestyle is not for me but if a man is promiscuous (which doesn't impress me actually) it is preferable that he is so on an equal basis with an open-minded promiscuous women - on a fair basis you can't have one without the other!

Opening doors for people & respectfulness are just good manners, but if a man makes a point with the gesture, I accept graciously - it happens a lot but I think a lot of it is also to do with attitude!

I don't think women are any more 'objects' or 'disposable human condoms' than they have always been considered by some men but I do object to your term 'mannish copies' - what do you mean by it? One of the comments made, somewhere in a couple of other posts, which I find offensive is the inference that strong women therefore must be lesbians.

To get back on topic this has all come about because of a publisher being accused of sexist (feminist - same thing!) because they produced a whole 3 adventure games with female protagonists. The 1st one So Blonde couldn't have worked otherwise, the 3rd Captain Morgane a spin-off from the 1st & the 2nd Gray Matter from a developer who's previous 3 games featured a male lead - coincidence & just the way arty people work!

Last edited by chrissie; 04-10-2012 at 12:10 PM.
chrissie is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:09 PM   #53
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Well, what did your granfather work with? What decade are we talking about? I didn't say that 60 years we had heaven on earth, I merely stated that middle-class man working a skilled labor job would do much better than today supporting a family. It is true.

I know UK is a socialist hellhole where many families leech off welfare, but look at the middle class. You will see that nowadays a middle class couple wanting a family and a good standard of living needs to work at least two jobs and tighten the bills. That is true everywhere in the world.

Women were treated better. Period. Fact. Many of the things you see done to women today would land you in jail back in the day. You complain for instance about negative depictions of women in the media. Many such depictions would get you a public opinion lynching back in the day.

I am now being accused of being a troll, but funny enough it is the bleeding heart feminists that can't drop the bone and keep baiting me... can't you leave it?
Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:16 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
WitchOfDoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Default

Quote:
I am now being accused of being a troll, but funny enough it is the bleeding heart feminists that can't drop the bone and keep baiting me... can't you leave it?
When a mosquito bite itches, people scratch. It probably makes the itch worse, but it's still a pretty natural thing to do.

I also notice that you carefully avoided denying being a troll.
__________________
The Sapphire Witch cordially invites you to a labyrinth of riddles and mysteries, The Witch's Epigraph.
WitchOfDoubt is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:39 PM   #55
She Wants Revenge
 
millenia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 494
Default

I usually have some hard time believing people that go "you are wrong, these are the facts, deal with it" when talking about complex issues involving culture, society and biology, and of course without any actual evidence to back his/hers "facts" up. This case is not different.

While Banter has also some valid points his aggressive and condescending style kind of makes it very hard to agree with anything he has said. I am leaning towards him trolling as no one seriously goes from extreme to another. Women having right to have sex is suddenly just about glorifying some dumb reality TV stars. And it's nice how it seems that every woman does this, and thinks that.
__________________
Currently playing: AlternativA, Diablo III
Recently finished: Hector - Episode 1, Dear Esther, Gemini Rue, Sherlock Holmes vs. Jack the Ripper, Blackwell trilogy
All-time favourites: Discworld Noir, Gabriel Knight trilogy
millenia is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:48 PM   #56
Senior Member
 
WitchOfDoubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 104
Default

So, how well, exactly, did the Wizarbox games pull off having a female lead? I'm not expecting Grace Nakimura, but did these characters have meaningful development?
__________________
The Sapphire Witch cordially invites you to a labyrinth of riddles and mysteries, The Witch's Epigraph.
WitchOfDoubt is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:49 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
chrissie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
Well, what did your granfather work with? What decade are we talking about? I didn't say that 60 years we had heaven on earth, I merely stated that middle-class man working a skilled labor job would do much better than today supporting a family. It is true.

I know UK is a socialist hellhole where many families leech off welfare, but look at the middle class. You will see that nowadays a middle class couple wanting a family and a good standard of living needs to work at least two jobs and tighten the bills. That is true everywhere in the world.

Women were treated better. Period. Fact. Many of the things you see done to women today would land you in jail back in the day. You complain for instance about negative depictions of women in the media. Many such depictions would get you a public opinion lynching back in the day.

I am now being accused of being a troll, but funny enough it is the bleeding heart feminists that can't drop the bone and keep baiting me... can't you leave it?
Banter - I would leave it but you are talking RUBBISH! Skilled labour jobs do not make you 'middle class' in this day & age & certainly didn't in the early part of the last century. You talk about middle class families - well I know plenty with families who have a good standard of living on one income! You seem to conveniently ignore that the majority of the population through the ages are in 'working class' category but would agree it's harder for them now except for some trades that can give a family a good living!

I didn't incidentally complain about negative depictions of women in the media! I also haven't accused you of being a troll. I'm also not a bleeding heart feminist.

A lot of things that were done to women in the past weren't reported - laws have only come into place in modern times to make it possible. I don't believe that women were treated any better in the past than they are today. Period!
chrissie is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 12:53 PM   #58
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

I am not trolling. No troll would give away such drama, right? I have asked to drop the subject. I'm not the insisting one here.

I don't think it is fair to be ganged up by 4 or 5 offended feminists anyway. Keep living the dream... not trying to be condescending but I really do think you people are kind of insane. Sometimes I don't even get what you are complaining about. Most of the modern "ideologies" are bizarre and senseless like that(feminism, socialism, the politically correct, etc).
Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by millenia View Post
While Banter has also some valid points his aggressive and condescending style kind of makes it very hard to agree with anything he has said. I am leaning towards him trolling as no one seriously goes from extreme to another. Women having right to have sex is suddenly just about glorifying some dumb reality TV stars. And it's nice how it seems that every woman does this, and thinks that.
So it is about style, and not about substance? I told truths but you "find it hard" to accept them because of my "condescending style"? Love your way of thinking, girl. Maybe the female brain is more different than it is supposed to be.

Hell, never met a female that was good at math anyway
Banter is offline  
Old 04-10-2012, 01:34 PM   #60
Senior Member
 
chrissie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 175
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banter View Post
I am not trolling. No troll would give away such drama, right? I have asked to drop the subject. I'm not the insisting one here.
Well you do keep insisting & could drop the subject by not keep posting!

Quote:
I don't think it is fair to be ganged up by 4 or 5 offended feminists anyway.
Correction: Ganged up by 4 or 5 offended women - you deserve everything you've got!

Quote:
Keep living the dream... not trying to be condescending but I really do think you people are kind of insane. Sometimes I don't even get what you are complaining about.
What kind of you people are you talking about? -women?
You don't seem to get anything!

Quote:
Most of the modern "ideologies" are bizarre
and senseless like that(feminism, socialism, the politically correct, etc).
chrissie is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.