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Old 03-05-2012, 10:01 AM   #1
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Default Freeware and Indie Adventures are the future of the Genre?!!

i see it is very obvious that games like that (Gemini Rue , to the Moon and Blackwell trilogy ...etc) and All other Independent Adventures are being appreciated by all the fans of this genre ...
and so.... many questions that need answering :-

-is that how the future of Adventure gaming will end up?
-will the developers of those indie games get funded or sponsored?
-are the developers of games like BoUT and all those Big productions will get back to the core of adventure games and learn from those independent's ?
-would i prefer an Indie game with low Graphics and (maybe) No Voice acting (but with interesting story and good game playing) more than its opposite?
-do we need more remakes of the (Old) Classic games to be presented with a modern style for new generation of adventure players ?
-are adventure games is general becoming A cliché,with the same trades (the door is locked! ... i cant reach that! ... can not make anything the room is so dark! ....etc) ..?!

- and at last do we need a revolution in adventure gaming something like MI or Myst or TLJ to can break all the repetitive engine of nowadays adventure gaming ?
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:08 AM   #2
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-is that how the future of Adventure gaming will end up?

Yes! The future of AG's is in the hands of the fans-and honestly I couldn't think of a better place for a genre of games to be in.

Rock music has only grown from strength to strength as Indie bands have found platforms with iTunes and various other distribution platforms. The same is happening with indie games.

I think that where we now in gamedev is as close as we have ever been to the birth of computer games. When companies like ID and 7th Realm were born. Duke Nukem, Doom, Commander Keen-games that not only defined genres, but defined and entire industry. Those were made my passionate individuals, with a love for what they did-a desire that wasn't fuelled by money, but by a pure love of creating.

-will the developers of those indie games get funded or sponsored?

I think that an indie can grow their business naturally. I think that things like Kickstarter are fantastic, but not essential to an indies business model. Personally, I'm self funding STASIS, and hopefully if the game is profitable, can use those profits to drive the next game (which I could do Full Time).

-are the developers of games like BoUT and all those Big productions will get back to the core of adventure games and learn from those independent's ?

I would love to see larger companies take on Adventure Games-but I dont know if that will happen. The market for adventure games is too small to support massive companies. While Double Fines 2 million is astounding, when you are running a large company, that money burns through quickly.
They will be profitable, but not 'as profitable' as with a more main stream genre.

-would i prefer an Indie game with low Graphics and (maybe) No Voice acting (but with interesting story and good game playing) more than its opposite?

See-I don't understand why an indie game should have low end graphics and no voice acting. Indies need to push themselves. Create the best graphics you can. Get the community involved in Voice Acting. It CAN be done. Just because you are independent, doesn't mean that production value should go out the window.

-do we need more remakes of the (Old) Classic games to be presented with a modern style for new generation of adventure players ?

NO! Leave the classics alone. They dont need a more modern style. That would just stagnate the genre. We need NEW games, NEW classics, NEW characters. The RPG industry would have died a long time ago if everyone remade Wasteland and D&D.

-are adventure games is general becoming A cliché,with the same trades (the door is locked! ... i cant reach that! ... can not make anything the room is so dark! ....etc) ..?

That all comes down to the designers. There are people out there pushing the idea of 'what is an Adventure Game?'.
But for people wanting a new and exciting game mechanics, they arent going to come from studios. They are going to come from indies. AMNESIA could NEVER have been made by anyone who was not an indie developer.

- and at last do we need a revolution in adventure gaming something like MI or Myst or TLJ to can break all the repetitive engine of nowadays adventure gaming ?

I don't think so. I cant see Adventure Games going through a massive revolution, because Adventure Gamers don't want that. The reason Double Fine did so well was because they are making a CLASSIC POINT AND CLICK ADVENTURE GAME. But there is nothing wrong with that.
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Old 03-06-2012, 08:05 AM   #3
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1st Pyke Thanks alot for taking the effort and the time to reply seriously to this thread .. i guess you had answered all the questions with an almost fulfilling way.

if i need to comment on your answers i would say generally they tend to be optimistic, which is great of course ,but lets look at it in the way of (you know) sad but true; what you said about rock music yes Indie bands have found new platforms that can keep them alive and rocking ,but is it the same as the classic rock days of Deep Purple and Black sabbath?!! ,NO! its tends only to give an easy meal that targets the new generations and neglects the real rockers and metal heads just for selling it for more the to mass spectators instead of creating the ART that should/was .
they only claim and see what they(spectators ) would like and play on those hotspots intentionally. like a fake word with no feelings!

same as new adventures due to that most of the new generation who grew up after Sierra and LucasArts where long way forgotten , and if you remember (Surely) why they Quit ; simply because Ken and Roberta decided to the leave the scene when they are on the top of it, and Lucas got really disappointed of the sales of Grim fandango (at that time) when he had gave it all he had and couldn't compete with the earlier success of King quest 6 , so he called it an adventure and gave up.

anyways what i mean that developers at that time tended with all passion to do great (Original) Art in the 1st place not to search for profit , but nevertheless they cant stand to lose or then how can they gain what can make them go on!.. and the strangest thing (for GF) that became the number one game of all time after 13-14 years of its production.....AND THAT WAS WE NEED ,developers and Publishers who got the balls to do the right thing even if the market is going wrong.
Indie adventures has these elements but they dont have the funds and production! ,they believe in what they are doing ,they even take 6-8 years to develop one game just for the love of it...

Maybe we need to support them MORE and let the new generation who would turn their back on an adventure because they watched/read its preview and found that the pics of the game has pixels or no voice overs ...... uaah!.. its terrible!.

at the end i dont want to end up growing old and start only playing those old Classics , like what happened with me in Rock Music; and i still listen (Only) to Bands like Zepplin and Iron Maiden and Judas...etc , and have NOO idea or desire for the current Rock scene because Simply it IS so Bad.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:31 PM   #4
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I think the reason for my optimism stems from the fact that I'm one of those indies developing an AG. If I wasn't optimistic about my chances for the game, or my love of the indie AG community, I would be sorta wasting my time!

See-I think that there are some indie rock bands that produce fantastic music-that if they were around at the same time as Judas, they would be as popular today. Nostalgia tends to cloud rational judgement. I have fond memories of The Goonies, but watched about 15 minutes of it a few years ago and turned it off. I would prefer to live with the memories.

My point is really that I believe that the future of the genre lies in the hands of the fans.
I also think that nostalgia is really clouding the points of view of many adventure gamers. If GEMENI RUE was released at the same time of BASS, it would be considered a classic.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:52 AM   #5
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I tend to agree with everything Pyke has said so far. Anything (whether that's an adventure game or a rock song) will be better if it's made by someone that's passionate about it. In that perspective it's a good thing that the future of AG's is in the hands of fans.

As to whether or not it can be successful - aren't a lot of talented indie bands successful as well? It's not because you're situated in a 'niche' of the market - and let's be honest, adventure games ARE in a niche - that you can't be successful within that niche...

I also don't understand why an indie game should have low end graphics and no voice acting. Wadjet Eye made sure Gemini Rue HAD voice acting upon it's release (and don't tell me that you didn't like Azriel Odin's gritty voice acting). Yes, graphics lacked a little (*), but it was Joshua Nuernberger's first commercial release. Team him up with some good graphics designers and you're on to something. Same goes for To the Moon's Kan Gao.
Heck, look at Machinarium. That was made by a team of 6, funded entirely with their own money. Did that lack production value? I think not...
Small team collaborations can easily lead to good production value. You just can't expect L.A. Noire graphics...

(*) Bad choice of words: graphics were actually quite good, they just looked like early 90s graphics...


As for the nostalgia-thing: don't get too hooked on nostalgia. Great games are still being made these days, just like there's great rock music still being made.
Because it's no longer main stream, though, it's no longer "in your face". It's there, but you have to actively *look* for it to find it...

Since you're at this site and on this forum, you're actively looking for the hidden gems in adventure gaming. To get your rock fix, you just have to find a similar site...
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimovieMan View Post
Since you're at this site and on this forum, you're actively looking for the hidden gems in adventure gaming. To get your rock fix, you just have to find a similar site...
i get your point
honestly there is no similar Site,and even if there are i already gotten my fix here and no needs to look somewhere else... and if i ever wished for an overdose one it would be through this site also with being more effective to the adventure game scene by sharing (at least) my opinion with all the members here which they verify , from developers,editors ... until readers!.... one more thing i just always thought that i am a die hard adventure player but in AG and with AG's members i found i out i am nothing but consumer/reader, which is fine for me....for now
thanks!
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Old 03-07-2012, 01:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
Yes! The future of AG's is in the hands of the fans-and honestly I couldn't think of a better place for a genre of games to be in.
This! Many times, this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyke View Post
See-I don't understand why an indie game should have low end graphics and no voice acting. Indies need to push themselves. Create the best graphics you can. Get the community involved in Voice Acting. It CAN be done. Just because you are independent, doesn't mean that production value should go out the window.
I do disagree somewhat with this comment. I think there's a big difference with low-res graphics and low-quality. Two totally unconnected spectrum. (Maybe just a different interpretation of the OP's choice of words, there, though.) Beautiful low-res graphics can be created on a self-funded budget much easier than beautiful high-res graphics unless you are or know a very talented artist with lots of free time.

And I would much rather have no voice acting than bad voice acting. Bad voice acting can ruin a well written, dramatic script. I don't associate having voice acting with high production values. Look at Zelda. I would consider a game with no voice acting to have higher production values than a game with terrible voice acting. Having the voices done by "the community" is risky in that you get mixed recording quality and mixed acting quality. Some people can't do it professionally. Unlike graphics where you can use a different art style or aesthetic to cover up technical quality, you can not hide the technical quality of voice acting.

Otherwise, I'm right on board with your comments, Pyke! There's lots of reasons to be optimistic! Good luck with STASIS, it looks amazing!
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Old 03-07-2012, 02:29 PM   #8
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Personally, after hearing many games that had (I thought) bad voice acting and still enjoying the game, I would prefer to have bad voice acting and have voice. Anymore I really don't care to play a game unless it has voice to it. I played Incinerations, a great game, but it would have been so much better with voice. There was just too much reading.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:18 AM   #9
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The industry vs. indie-developers is irrelevant, it's not about that, it's about individuals who pushes things beyond the call of duty, these individuals can either be some guy at a big studio currently working his way up to a position of power or could be some guy in his parents basement doing it the indie-route,

Gem Rue is amazing, but it's not because it's an indie-game it's because it's "the Jburger",

There are tons of indie-devs out there making low quality graphics and "experimental gameplay" for the claimed purpose of trying new things and focusing on the art-form etc, but really they have just figured out that they can make lots of money from very little effort, and as long as they have an anti-gears-of-war-attitude there will be tons of gamers who WANTS to idealize a indie-dev and make his games out to be better than they actually are.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:07 AM   #10
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While I don't agree with the "lots of money" statement, I think you're right that it's about the individuals, not if they are indie-developers or not.
Might be you can't work as freely in bigger companies but take a look at Ghost Trick for example. Or Portal for that matter, which even started out as kind of an indie game, if I remember correctly. (I know, a controversial example and most certainly not at the "core" of adventures.)
I think the main difference nowadays is it's gotten pretty easy (again) to develop and distribute small games. Also gaming is more socially accepted than it used to be. So there are lots of new indie games around. The better ones get spread and seen.

Paraphrasing from another thread, but it fits better here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adventurere No.1 View Post
BoUT of ex. why was it praised that much, i guess simply because their publisher just played it right from German release until the english one, they only kept people waiting and waiting until they squeezed the market of adventure games and at the end it was (the game) already on every player's tongue
I get it, you don't like BoUT. I guess one of your 99 comments about it must have tipped me off.
Please realize there are actually people who do like BoUT.
Because, you know, it's not a bad game, after all. o__o
Neither is it a multi-million dollar production nor was it forced down our throats by some almighty publisher. Its makers don't have to find back to the "core" of adventures, if such a thing exists and they are adventure fans like you and me. Just go read some of the interviews. Then you also will know they struggled hard to get it released internationally at all.
You don't like it and that's perfectly fine. You feel underwhelmed by the easy puzzles and I can agree with that. But please realize that's your opinion and not some universal truth. You constantly slip your own opinions into your postings as if they were common known facts.

Last edited by Shnubble; 03-09-2012 at 04:07 AM. Reason: Tried to correct my grammar
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:25 AM   #11
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But please realize that's your opinion and not some universal truth. You constantly slip your own opinions into your postings as if they were common known facts.
Man Please dont hate me because of my excessive opinion, yeaa i did.. but there are many ex. that carry with this/my opinion of totally commercial game...i dont no why i refer to BoUT all the time... maybe because its new... i dont know!,but are right...again just dont hate me because of my opinion

ahh and man this quote of mine u used is from another thread
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:08 PM   #12
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I agree with Mad Manny that it's not about being indie. It's about people with passion for the genre and the willingness to strive for a great game.
That's as true for Book of Unwritten Tales as it is for Gemini Rue. Both are made by fans of the genre.
What's great about the development in the last few years is that developers are increasingly less dependent on a publisher. In this day and age you can work alone or with a small team on a game and release it online, like on Steam. That's why we see increasing numbers of indie adventures, because it's possible to make money with it now.
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Old 03-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #13
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Don't worry Adventurere No.1, I certainly don't hate you.
I just find myself disagreeing with you a lot.
But I like your enthusiasm for adventures.
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Old 03-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #14
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But I like your enthusiasm for adventures.
Thanks man, You Know really ,i have three things in my life that make me happy indeed ;Music, My Wife ,and Adventure Games
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Old 03-09-2012, 02:31 AM   #15
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I would have never predicted adventure games would be flourishing this well ten years ago.

No, I mean it. Ten years ago the Internet was telling me adventure was dead and everyone seemed happy about it. I'm impressed this website is still around for starters.

My point is, who knows what's going to happen? Adventure games might make a HUGE comeback in the AAA market as the medium itself becomes more sophisticated and draws in a wider audience. You're seeing a bit of that happen today with Western RPGs and the Portal games crossing over into mainstream culture.

Then again, it might not. All that matters is some of what Manny said - when you have passionate developers who believe in the genre then anything could really happen. Really.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:08 AM   #16
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I do disagree somewhat with this comment. I think there's a big difference with low-res graphics and low-quality. Two totally unconnected spectrum. (Maybe just a different interpretation of the OP's choice of words, there, though.) Beautiful low-res graphics can be created on a self-funded budget much easier than beautiful high-res graphics unless you are or know a very talented artist with lots of free time.
Oh-I definitely didn't mean 'low res' graphics. I meant low quality graphics. I think that Gemeni Rue is one of the best looking games I've seen in a long time.
Essentially what I mean is that I don't think that indies should use the excuse of 'being indie' to let any part of their product be below the best quality they can make it.
AAA titles are really good because nothing is just 'good enough'. Every aspect of the productions get attention. Indies need to be the same.

If you cant draw, there are many many ways to get your story across. I personally would LOVE to see a 'claymation' game done by indies. South Park has proven that if you have fun characters, you don't need super smooth graphics to get across a (good?) story.

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Otherwise, I'm right on board with your comments, Pyke! There's lots of reasons to be optimistic! Good luck with STASIS, it looks amazing!
Thanks man. I can tell you its rough going-but quite an experience!
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:10 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobloshow
My point is, who knows what's going to happen? Adventure games might make a HUGE comeback in the AAA market as the medium itself becomes more sophisticated and draws in a wider audience. You're seeing a bit of that happen today with Western RPGs and the Portal games crossing over into mainstream culture.
I agree about the wider audience, and I think in part that's got to do with the rising average age of gamers. More and more adults play video games these days, and as the age group widens, it'll eventually also partly move away from more reflex-based games (which are more suited for younger people) to "slower" turn-based games. And adventures can cater to that last group nicely...
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Old 03-09-2012, 10:32 AM   #18
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If you cant draw, there are many many ways to get your story across. I personally would LOVE to see a 'claymation' game done by indies.
There are quite a few of those. In terms of adventure games there is The Dream Machine and at least half a dozen games made by thecatamites.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:15 AM   #19
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If someone asked me about the history of adventure games, i would specifically note the period of the early 00s as the critical point, and rise of the indie games as one of the major factor in keeping the genre's recognition.

So, indie games are not the future, but very much the "present" for over 10 years. It's just they're rising in popularity and becoming more noticeable (and not only in adventure genre), because, in a simple evolution of things, they're becoming more like other "regular" games - bigger in scope, better in graphics... (even though it's not necessary for a "good" game), while "big" games tend to reduce the impact of the publishers on their creativity. In a philosophical point of view, it could be said that what we're seeing could be the process where "indie" and big budgets tend to meet each other. We've already witnessed several titles seeing the light of day even though the original publisher went bankrupt, or the Kickstarter game campaigns. However, even if we reach "utopia" where everyone is independent and free, there'll always be distinction between more "indie" and less "indie", in a basic sense of the term, as the game can be made by one man, group of people, company... and even then - no one can restrict "publishers" to help smaller teams.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
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So, indie games are not the future, but very much the "present"
i guess that is being Proven these days with all that pledging .... even when you look at the Hype-o-meter ... what are the 2 most awaited games ....

this might sound so irrelevant but i would like to tell telltale ,pack your things and go home or just start again the way you did!
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