[Shoal]

Hi all! It's been years since my last post on these forums, so I thought I'd come back with a question:

Is there anyone else out there who, like me, actually finds the puzzles in adventure games their least favorite element of them?

I far and away prefer colorful characters, a great plot and lots of exploration and immersion to, well, having to engage in that dreadful, terrible activity called "thinking". Myst games, for example, have always driven me up the wall. They're virtually all puzzle and very little else, and many of their puzzles are real brain-busters even for the brightly lit among us.

But I admit that puzzles are a necessary component for an adventure game. Without them all you're really left with is an almost passive experience. One wonders why you don't just watch a movie. (This from the guy who made an eight+ hour movie out of Dreamfall.)

Nevertheless, is there anyone else out there who tends to see puzzles in adventures games more as a threat to fun than a promise?

[ohyesIdid]

It all depends on a puzzle. If it's a lot of hassling around, mathematical formulas and symbols etc, I'll pass. I never liked MYST for example. Never finished one of them. Puzzles that are solved with logic, I kinda like, as long as it doesn't take a very long time.

Story, characters and locations is more my thing.

[Datadog]

I agree - sometimes puzzles can kill a game. I remember several occasions where a game just came to a grinding halt - not because I was stuck - but because the puzzles in question were completely detaching me from any investment I had in the experience. Or sometimes, a random filler puzzle is just thrown in to pad the game's length. You spent 20 minutes running around solving a mundane task, and then it never comes up again.

Personally, my favorite puzzles are the ones that are immediately connected to the story, or are at least part of a larger, more clever network of puzzles that usually culminate in a big "Eureka" moment for me once I see where all the pieces fit. I love the puzzles in "Day of the Tentacle" and "King's Quest VI" for this because, even though there's a lot of footwork, practically every puzzle is directly connected to the main characters' goals. I rather liked our recent play-through of "Discworld Noire" for the same reason - even when you take a break from your case to work on something else, it always ties back in to the original plot.

[Free Spirit]

Personally i don't agree, but it's fun to see people considering this!

My 2 cents: What i love about adventure games? A great story, great characters... and great puzzles. What i don't like? Linear stops. What i mean by that, is that sometimes you have all the neccesary tools to complete some story point and you only have to talk to someone or interact with something to progress. You know you are absolutely right. And then it turns out you need to talk to this one random person about something random, or forgot to look at something random (that isn't inherently interwoven with the plot in the worst case) to be able to finish the chapter. That linear stop is the worst thing about adventures. If my player character says something along the lines of: this explains everything! I MUST talk to this person as soon as possible... and then not being able to talk to that person because you haven't looked at a certain hotspot wich the creators deemed neccesary for the plot. For that reason alone i LOVE puzzles. The puzzle is essentialy a 'one-room brainbreaker'. Where i know i haven't missed something (well, unless in those few rare cases where you need a item to make it work) and i know i have to use nothing but pure wit and logic to solve it. Go puzzles!

EDIT: horrible spelling.

[Schneckchen ^.^]

I like puzzles as long as they're not too hard or obscure. If I get stuck I won't hesitate to use a walkthrough but I wish that was something I didn't have to do since it ruins the immersion and is pretty tedious. I'm playing through the Runaway games right now and they look great but the puzzles are just way too hard for me so that brings em down a lot for me. I never did like stuff like Myst either.

I like games like Lost Horizon or Monkey Island the most. The riddles are challenging enough but not so challenging as to get frustrating.

[Arial Type]

No, sorry, I'm not with you here. I play adventure games for the story AND puzzles, and my perfect adventure have a perfect mix of both (like Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers). As too few adventure designers reach the level of professional screenplay writers, I have no desire to watch an amateurish drama that lasts 4-10 hours non-stop. Not a fan of Myst games either, although I'd still prefer a game with a simple premise, but inspired, well integrated puzzles to a complex, but linear storyline with a click-through gameplay.

[Origami]

I always have difficulty answering topics like these since for me personally it's determined by so many factors.

I usually like the puzzle element more when:
-it's directly tied to the plot(i.e. Phoenix Wright) and solving the puzzle will immediately move the story.
-Game takes place in a realistic setting so I can apply more practical thinking.
-Type of puzzle relate to the role of the character you control. For instance if I am a detective/inspector/investigator on the trail of a killer then I enjoy taking a moment or two longer to dot the lines, look for clues etc.

Also ofcourse depends on the quality of the puzzles in general.

[Shoal]

Thing is, every time I start playing an adventure game one of the first things I'll do just as a reflex action is find a walkthrough because I know I'm going to eventually need it. It's absolutely inevitable. (Even in Dreamfall I had to check once!)

Very little damages my enjoyment of an adventure game more than not knowing precisely what to do next and how to do it. If I get stuck I'll make about a ten-minute attempt to figure it out but then just look at a walkthrough. If I'm feeling particularly adverse to doing this (see below), I'll sit on it for a while and then try again for other ten minutes. But if I still can't figure it out, forget it: it's time for the answer.

But I hate having to use a walkthrough! It really does feel like cheating and it often spoils the storyline (which is an element of the game I actually like). I suppose that's why some games offer a hint system instead of the answer straight-up. I appreciate that, especially if it's layered, offering increasingly revealing hints.

I also have to agree with what has already been mentioned in this thread: puzzles shouldn't feel like they're padding or disconnected from the plot. Why do I need to solve a Rubix cube to call a cab? (I've never actually seen that puzzle but it illustrates how I see a lot of puzzles in adventure games.)

[Oscar]

Looks like I'm a loner on this topic. Puzzles make an adventure game. If I am going to be the character who has to solve these problems in his/her life, I will lose interest if someone else solves them for me (whether it's the computer or a walkthrough). I mean, come on! The challenge is the whole game. The more frustrating the more satisfying it is solving them. In real life how satisfying is it to face a huge problem and overcome it?

[Datadog]

You're not a loner - I think adventure games are defined by a combination of puzzle-solving and exploration. But it's not so much the challenge as it is sometimes a game will make you go through hoops solving an easy, yet overly-complicated puzzle that's both pointless and unrelated.

One example that always come to mind is from the opening of "Space Quest 6" where Roger is deposited on a planet for shore leave with no clear objectives or conflicts (other than a temporary teleportation mishap). We later find out that his main quest is a filler puzzle where he has to rent a hotel room. But he has to solve several other filler puzzles before he can do even that. I wouldn't mind if the puzzles were used to foreshadow later events, but in this case, they're just there to waste time until the plot begins.

[inm8#2]

Saying you don't like puzzles in an adventure game is like saying you don't like chicken in a chicken sandwich.

Puzzles are the essential component of gameplay.

[shadow9d9]

Puzzles are the only reason I play adventure games. The very best stories they have to offer are pathetic compared to a good book or tv show imo. The graphics and atmosphere usually pale compared to other genres.

[WitchOfDoubt]

Graham Nelson called an adventure game a crossword at war with a narrative. I like it when the crossword and the narrative fall in love instead, and are entirely inextricable from each other.

This kind of tight entanglement, where removing puzzles would genuinely change the story, and changing the story would really alter the puzzles, is not common.