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Old 01-17-2012, 09:14 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by diego View Post
we're in the same boat - i was actually lamenting on lack of good puzzles today compared to classics and how i expect things to get better

I have noticed the same. It would be interesting to compare how developers thought about puzzle creation then and now. Do developers think up a story first and add puzzles later?

I don't mind the idea of adventure games becoming thought of as movie+puzzles, but they shouldn't be experienced as such while playing them. There's a huge difference between doing a puzzle to get on to "the next bit" and trying to find the key so i can unlock the door to see what's in the room across the hallway.

Last edited by Oscar; 01-17-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:16 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by diego View Post
story IS traditionally more important
Is it? Why do you say this, and what do you mean by story here? I can think of a lot of puzzles that are part of the story or add to it, in fact I might argue all puzzles add to the story.
Isn't it so that if the puzzles add to the story, then the puzzles are basically serving the story. In that case, the story IS more important.

Granted, not every story stands on its own without puzzles, and no puzzle stands on its own without having to add to the story (stand-alone puzzles tend to get criticism in games unless it's a Layton game).

I'm losing my own train of thought a bit here, but bottom line is that a good story can become a better story with well integrated puzzles, but that puzzles can't really exist in a game without at the very least furthering the story.


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Originally Posted by Kurufinwe View Post
"Weak and thin plots to present puzzles" is pretty much the design statement for the entire King's Quest series, so I'm not sure I agree with your point. Many older adventure games tended to focus more on puzzle and exploration than on plot or characterization.
Does the limited amount of expression that could be given to the characters (because the games had less disk space and fewer PC capabilities back then) have anything to do with it?
I know for a fact that the mazes in Zak McKracken & the Alien Mindbenders were so abundant because it was an easy way for the developers to add more puzzles without it costing much disk space (or back then: floppy space).

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Originally Posted by Tamiil View Post
I'm polar opposite to Oscar, whenever I want to watch a movie, I'll play a game and take part of it
Which is probably why I spend more time playing games than watching movies nowadays...

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Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
I have noticed the same. It would be interesting to compare how developers thought about puzzle creation then and now. Do developers think up a story first and add puzzles later?
That's a good question for any developers that frequent these forums.

I'm not a developer myself, but I think that the story often comes first and then they try to fit the puzzles in. But they also have to keep in mind what the capabilities are of the engine they are using. If a great puzzle proves impossible to implement, they probably won't be able to use it.
Engine limitations now are a similar problem to disk space limitations in the olden days...
But then again, they had engine limitations back then as well. Could use some input from developers here...
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:26 AM   #23
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Okay learned this in my screenwriting class but, a story isn't a story if the protagonist has no obstacles to overcome.

So like it or not, Puzzles serve the story, but the story needs them so the game actually feels like a game and not a.....RHEM game.
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