01-08-2012, 11:30 PM | #21 | |
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Jurassic park had the old dragons lair success or dead system where the on screen prompts were basic direction arrows and had absolutely no bearing on the story whatsoever. - i.e a barely interactive QTE like we have seen in a million games before
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01-09-2012, 03:08 AM | #22 |
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Yeah now that I think of it you're right. There were a couple of moments where the actions reflect the controls, but it is nothing like the advanced use of six axis on the Dual Shock control to mimic movements and so on. I want to play heavy rain again come to think of it. lol
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01-09-2012, 05:52 AM | #23 | |||
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Makes it more of a hybrid than an innovated adventure game to me. Quote:
I get why Heavy Rain is innovative. I just don't feel the same with L.A. Noire.
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01-09-2012, 10:00 AM | #24 | |
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Most PC developers have an idea that "this is what an adventure game looks like" and aren't getting out of that box, whereas on other systems they dont seem to be tied down in the same way. At least thats the way it seems to me. |
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01-09-2012, 10:11 AM | #25 |
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From what I understand (I haven't played the game) the interrogation system is supposed to be very good. It is not about simply wading through a whole dialog tree, selecting every single option, like most adventures. Based on how you do, there are multiple endings to a case.
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01-09-2012, 11:33 AM | #26 |
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And that's pretty much why I stopped playing another genres ages ago.
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01-09-2012, 12:37 PM | #27 |
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This looks like finally a good discussion on innovative games because it focuses on specific titles mentioned by the OP.
So let me ask you all a question - would you still consider them innovative, if they weren't mainstream hits and their popularity was limited only to the adventure games fans public?
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01-09-2012, 01:50 PM | #28 |
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yeah....anything that implements new ideas never before seen in the genre is considered an innovation*.innovation doesn't have anything to do with mainstream and popularity.maybe the innovation depending on what it is brings popularity or maybe it changes the genre to a hybrid or sth like that and as a result it becomes mainstream.but not the other way round
PS:*innovation to the genre not generally.since we are talking about innovations to adventure gaming. PS2:maybe they aren't entirely new ideas but recycled ideas from other genres that give adventure games a whole new feeling or maybe they are similar to other ideas already seen on an adventure game but changed a little,presented a little differently or maybe from a different angle/perspective. |
01-09-2012, 01:53 PM | #29 |
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Generally speaking, since I've only played two of the games, I would say of course - I would say it's pretty much a fact that the term innovation (or innovative) has nothing to do with being either popular or niche, it's far more universal than that
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01-09-2012, 02:24 PM | #30 | |
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In contrast to that Grim Fandango and Gabriel Knight games (just examples) could be considered too demanding in terms of puzzles and the genre's traditions for todays general public.
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01-09-2012, 02:42 PM | #31 |
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Like I said....if you are talking about innovation in a genre then you have your answer.
I think that calling a game innovative it has to be within a genre...if not then the whole game must be outside of genres.not just some innovation in a part of the game but the whole game(story mechanics etc) |
01-10-2012, 12:59 AM | #32 | ||
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Three options. That's it. I prefer a whole dialog tree to that. Quote:
Fahrenheit / Indigo Prophecy was innovative as well, and I've a feeling it's more popular now than when it was first released. In part because of the success of Heavy Rain. Good and innovative games tend to sell bad upon release. Probably because they're innovative - people are afraid of change. But if the games are good, they'll stand the test of time... Same goes for movies: Citizen Kane, a movie that was twenty years ahead of its time upon release, only got the recognition it deserved years and years later... Innovation helps change the course of the future. But the innovator is rarely the one that gets the big bucks...
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01-10-2012, 02:29 AM | #33 |
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Maybe it is like you said about the interrogation system of LA Noire but you can't deny that it feels a little more real.When you talk to someone you have certain choises and from what you judge to be the truth you get certain repercussions.And you only have one chance.And it also blends the visual part to the whole discussion.What the other party is feeling,giving you a feel/sense as to where this discussion's going.Of cource,without the graphics upgrade it wouldn't be considered as something notable.
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01-10-2012, 03:05 AM | #34 | |
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Graphically it's a stunning achievement (the amount of facial motion capturing they did is insane). But I think it's little more than a graphical update of elements that were found in the genre for years, albeit a rather GOOD update. I'm definitely not saying L.A. Noire is a bad game, I just don't feel it's innovative...
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01-10-2012, 06:22 AM | #35 |
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my point though was that the graphics upgrade wasn't just better graphics.By using it in an interrogation system it became more real,immersing.I haven't played every ag game out there so there might be other games that have used this but from those i've played it's definitely sth unique.
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01-10-2012, 06:32 AM | #36 | |
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But I'm sure there's a FMV game that'll have used this before. Heck, with all the motion capturing, L.A. Noire practically IS an FMV...
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01-10-2012, 06:46 AM | #37 |
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maybe you're right even if it still doesn't sit well with me(sth feels different about FMV and LA Noire).anyways in terms of pure graphics it is new.and even if it doesn't revolutionise the ag genre i'm happy if it revolutionises the rest.
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01-10-2012, 08:24 AM | #38 | ||
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I still feel like there's no appreciation for the mainstream gamer accessibility that is helping these games get noticed outside the genre and (in effect) also helping them to be considered innovative (I'm not talking about personal evaluations, but about the public image of these games).
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If Citizen Kane was actually ignored and of no interest to the public at the time of release, it would probably never be re-evaluated later on. So were the sales horrible or just below expectations? It was a new IP experiment from the designer of a hit series and making it probably didn't come cheap. I'd say it had to sell a lot of copies to make even, but regardless it's definitely far more popular than Grey Matter or any of the less mainstream adventure games of recent years.
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A Hardy Developer's Journal - The Scientific Society's online magazine devoted to charting indie adventure games and neighboring territories Last edited by Ascovel; 01-10-2012 at 08:32 AM. |
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01-10-2012, 02:51 PM | #39 |
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Well, I don't know exactly where to jump in here but I'll address the OP.
The controls of console and handheld gaming forced adventure to innovate. If you've ever played one of the Discworld games on a Playstation you'll see how cumbersome using the directional pad to move the cursor is. The development team at Capcom had to be more conscientious of how the gamer is going to interact with the DS when they worked on Ghost Trick. You can tell the designer of that game liked the idea of possessing objects and put a lot of thought into how to execute that function with the DS controls. There's a reason why you draaaag the stylus across the screen to possess different objects rather than just click on two different objects on the screen. In another thread I'm arguing for a new paradigm in game development where the narrative dictates the game's mechanics rather than trying to stuff the narrative into conventional game mechanics (like Uncharted 3) and the team behind Ghost Trick really exemplify what I want to see more of. But so far it's only scratching the surface. |
01-10-2012, 04:51 PM | #40 |
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Ghost Trick has sold over 280,000 copies worldwide. It actually sold quite well in the states although sales did drop off after week three in Japan.
There are many adventure games with sales well below 280,000 copies that are considered to be a major success. There is talk of a 2nd game on the 3DS. 999 For example had 220,000 units sold worldwide and a second game is being developed. Ace Attorney has had 3.6 million sales total spread across six games. There was an adventure game on the WII that was a major disappointment in sales - that game sold only 21,000 copies. The game was not ported to any other systems and never saw a release in the United States. Should Ghost Trick have had Prof Layton or Ace Attorney level of sales? Obviously Gamespot thought so - giving the game the "Best Game Nobody Ever Played" award. Now that the game has won so many major awards like "Best Handheld Game of the Year" - I'm certain that "Ghost Trick" will have a very long shelf life and copies will continue to sell. Ghost Trick still sells for full retail price - most games that have been out for as long as Ghost Trick see a major price drop by now. When I played "Ghost Trick" I thought it was very innovative - even for a DS game. I do hope we see more games like this one produced and released.
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I love all third person adventure games Last edited by Mikekelly; 01-12-2012 at 07:04 PM. Reason: Adjust sales figure |
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