[Gabe]

While noire inspired ag keep expanding i've made a quick list,for evaluating different examples throughout the history,feel free to make additions.

LA Noire 2011 5(*) classic noir
Heavy Rain 2010 5(*) neo noir
Grim Fandango 1998 5(*)noir parody
The Last Express 1997 5(*)retro noir
Nocturne 2000 4(*)retro noir
Blade Runner 1997 4(*)sci-fi noir
Still Life 2005 4(*)neo noir
Gemini Rue 2010 4(*)future noir
Moment of Silence 2005 4(*) future noir
Overclocked 2008 4(*) neo noir
Indigo Prophecy 2005 4(*)sci-fi noir
Discworld Noir 1999 4(*)noir parody
The Pandora Directive 1996 4(*)future noir
Under a Killing Moon 1994 4(*)future noir
Sam & Max 303:They Stole Max's Brain 2010 3(*)noir parody
Noire a shadowy Thriller 1996 3(*)classic noir
Hotel Dusk: Room 215 2007 3(*)neo noir
Post Mortem 2002 2(*)retro noir
Private Eye 1995 2(*)classic noir
Jack Orlando 2001 2(*)noir parody
Black Dahlia 1998 2(*)classic noir

[TimovieMan]

The only one I can think of that's missing from your list is:

Last Window: The Secret of Cape West (2010)

It's the sequel to Hotel Dusk: Room 215, and it's at least as good - if not better.



Edit:

The Dame Was Loaded (1995) was probably noir too. Based on the title alone...

And Conspiracy (1992) (also known as KGB) was kinda noir, for a Cold War game.

[Fien]

What do those numbers stand for, shades of noir?
Why only two Tex games, how about Overseer?
IMO, you're stretching the definition of noir (e.g. Still Life) but of course that's your prerogative.

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Fien

What do those numbers stand for, shades of noir?
Why only two Tex games, how about Overseer?
IMO, you're stretching the definition of noir (e.g. Still Life) but of course that's your prerogative.

Numbers are showing star ratings,yes whole Tex series counts but i wrote only i've played.
About stretching noir,could you write about the title(s) why not noir?

[Fien]

Still Life is a thriller. Sort of Art of Murder with a lot of gore and horror added. Gore and horror are certainly not ingredients of "noir". The protagonists don't have the cynical, hard-boiled attitude that's typical of noir. She bakes cookies! I haven't finished prequel Post Mortem, but Overclocked and MoS aren't noir in my book either.

Just my opinion.

[Ascovel]

I can't really identify your list with the noir genre.

The Last Express isn't noir. It's like calling an Agatha Christie crime novel "noir", or late 19th century/early 20th century European adventure fiction - it's strongly rooted in both.

Nocturne is a rip-off of Hellboy. Would you call Lovecraft stories and Dracula noir literature?

Overclocked? Other then the Nighthawks reference, I see no noir connections whatsoever.

Maybe you're trying to compile a list of detective fiction games rather than specifically "noir" ones, Gabe?

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

I can't really identify your list with the noir genre.

Noir is not a clearly defined genre. In fact, you can hardly call 'noir' a 'genre'.

It's really hard to define 'noir' and you can be as strict and as loose as you want with it.

The list is fine, imo. It's simply a bit more loose in its definition.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

It's really hard to define 'noir' and you can be as strict and as loose as you want with it.

If that were true, the word would be without any meaning (other than the original French). And yet in all dictionaries and encyclopedias it functions just fine as a name of a fiction genre, as well as a movie genre (with somewhat different meaning).

What you are referring to is that it's become a popular catch-phrase that a lot of people use carelessly.

[TimovieMan]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

If that were true, the word would be without any meaning (other than the original French). And yet in all dictionaries and encyclopedias it functions just fine as a name of a defined fiction genre, as well as a movie genre (with somewhat different meaning).

What you are referring to is that it's become a popular catch-phrase that a lot of people use carelessly.

I am referring to the fact that a lot of scholars are still debating what does and does not constitute being "noir".

All dictionaries and encyclopedias will give you a very VAGUE description. Crime fiction featuring tough, cynical characters and bleak settings? Pretty much covers ALL crime fiction, imo.

You don't always need black-and-white, jazz soundtracks, and constant cynical voice-overs. Noir is a lot wider than that.
And it's hard to define where it ends...

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by Fien

Still Life is a thriller. Sort of Art of Murder with a lot of gore and horror added. Gore and horror are certainly not ingredients of "noir". The protagonists don't have the cynical, hard-boiled attitude that's typical of noir. She bakes cookies! I haven't finished prequel Post Mortem, but Overclocked and MoS aren't noir in my book either.

Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by Ascovel

I can't really identify your list with the noir genre.

The Last Express isn't noir. It's like calling an Agatha Christie crime novel "noir", or late 19th century/early 20th century European adventure fiction - it's strongly rooted in both.
Nocturne is a rip-off of Hellboy. Would you call Lovecraft stories and Dracula noir literature?
Overclocked? Other then the Nighthawks reference, I see no noir connections whatsoever.
Maybe you're trying to compile a list of detective fiction games rather than specifically "noir" ones, Gabe?

I identified noir characteristics due to general mood of the stories,crime element,a downbeat tone,depicting a world that is inherently corrupt and having a tragic or bleak conclusion. (difference between the Last Express and Orient Express and how Still Life ends a typical example)
But no concensus on definitions diversed type of games due to their period and substyle.

[donatelli]

Sinking Island has a great atmosphere about it, though classifying it as Noir may be a stretch...

[Gabe]

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

I am referring to the fact that a lot of scholars are still debating what does and does not constitute being "noir".

All dictionaries and encyclopedias will give you a very VAGUE description. Crime fiction featuring tough, cynical characters and bleak settings? Pretty much covers ALL crime fiction, imo.

You don't always need black-and-white, jazz soundtracks, and constant cynical voice-overs. Noir is a lot wider than that.
And it's hard to define where it ends...

I think everyone agrees that noire first of all a crime fiction,other criterions varies story's tone,mood and how ends..
But no definitive description coz of ambivalent characteristics,e.g Vertigo, a noir on the basis of plot and tone and various motifs. Others say the combination of color and the specificity of director Alfred Hitchcock's vision exclude it from the category.(I can't see how)

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by Gabe

I identified noir characteristics due to general mood of the stories,crime element,a downbeat tone,depicting a world that is inherently corrupt and having a tragic or bleak conclusion. (difference between the Last Express and Orient Express and how Still Life ends a typical example)
But no concensus on definitions diversed type of games due to their period and substyle.

Fair enough - it's definitely an interesting selection of titles. Personally I wouldn't call it "noir" though, because it will confuse readers of the list. Even The Empire Strikes Back would fit your description unless you'd argue the "general mood of the story" is wrong for noir and the crime aspect is supposed to be different.

Originally Posted by Gabe

But no definitive description coz of ambivalent characteristics,e.g Vertigo, a noir on the basis of plot and tone and various motifs. Others say the combination of color and the specificity of director Alfred Hitchcock's vision exclude it from the category.(I can't see how)

Hitchcock films are thrillers with a variety of motifs he obsessed about and presented in visually elaborate ways. Like sudden, shocking murder in domestic environment, psychosis, hypnosis. I wouldn't connect him too strongly to movie productions from the noir era (he established his style long before it started). He was more inspired by penny dreadfuls he read as a kid and wrote himself before becoming a filmmaker.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

The Last Express isn't noir. It's like calling an Agatha Christie crime novel "noir", or late 19th century/early 20th century European adventure fiction - it's strongly rooted in both.

I too was surprised to see TLE on the list. I didn't mention it because I talk about TLE far too much anyway. Now that you have, I'll add that (although I agree with you) hero Robert Cath does fit the noir criteria rather well. He's cynical but has his heart in the right place, refuses to take sides, and in the best Humphrey Bogart tradition of the Maltese Falcon wants to get to the bottom of his friend's death, no matter what. All the deaths and the ending are tragic, unlike ordinary Art-of-Murder and Agatha Christie cookie-cutters games, so in a way TLE is a tiny bit noirish. But I don't feel it should be near the top of the list.

[diego]

The Last Express is being one of those "full-diversity" titles, where you can easily glue any sub-genre on it - it wouldn't hurt to call it a mystery, romance, historical... and i also think noir suits it well because of a "specific atmosphere", in lack of better description.

I'm not really an expert on noir genre, and the first thing that comes to mind are black-white Hollywood classics and private dicks in fedora - oh yeah, another addition is Nick Bounty series.

Later, i discovered there're many "noir" variations and that attitude, general "mood" and other things like those Fien mentioned shape the noir.


I may be wrong, but the first game i think about is "Ripper", which would be something like "cyberpunk noir".

[Monolith]

Mystery Case Files is a great addition to the Noire catalog since its set up like an investigation moreso than many of those games.

[Arial Type]

I think all Tex Murphy adventures are worth mentioning. I still can't get that jazzy motive from the start of Martian Memorandum out of my head. As for

Originally Posted by TimovieMan

And Conspiracy (1992) (also known as KGB) was kinda noir, for a Cold War game.

- there was no noir in the USSR, just the reality