The new Blackwell game (spoiler-free) - Page 2 - Adventure Forums
You are viewing an archived version of the site which is no longer maintained.
Go to the current live site or the Adventure Gamers forums
Adventure Gamers

Home Adventure Forums Gaming Adventure The new Blackwell game (spoiler-free)


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-17-2011, 12:01 AM   #21
Elegantly copy+pasted
 
After a brisk nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
Default

I don't think there's anything wrong in caring about the graphics. They're part of the execution, part of the experience, and they help to create all those things people legitimately care about, like atmosphere, storytelling, and even (to a lesser extent) puzzles.

I've played a bit of Deception (maybe 45 minutes - I took a break because I still can't get used to the new voice for Rosa), and I'm not loving the graphics either. But I think they're OK, acceptable for what the game is trying to achieve. Honestly, my biggest dislike is the mixing of resolutions, and particularly the ugly scaling artifacts this creates in some cases.

If you're not aware, the graphics are mainly created by two AGSers, InCreator (backgrounds) and Ben304 (sprites). Both are pretty experienced and have done really good work in the past. InCreator's style does rely heavily on 3D rendering, but he's usually able to give it a pixel-art look. I don't think the screenshot in the first post is the most representative example of how the graphics look in general.

Dave has talked a lot on his blog and forums about his difficulties choosing artists and art style, and has experimented with different approaches for each episode of the series. He also has to be pragmatic about it and invest his resources where they matter most. And in that regard I think it's important to point out that not only has Deception sold well, the reviews for this episode on most sites have been very positive.

For my money the best-looking (and in many ways the best, though partly just because it was all fresh back then) Blackwell game is still The Blackwell Legacy.
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog.
After a brisk nap is offline  
Old 10-17-2011, 02:59 AM   #22
Senior Member
 
Keregioz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Greece
Posts: 638
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by After a brisk nap View Post
For my money the best-looking (and in many ways the best, though partly just because it was all fresh back then) Blackwell game is still The Blackwell Legacy.
As far as graphics go, I don't think any of the blackwell games comes even close to the quality of "blackwell convergence".

Blackwell legacy:


Blackwell convergence:


And here are some more:






Honestly, I think there are very few low-res games (even from the old classics) that have that level of quality.

Back on topic, I played and finished "Deception" and thought it was great. Gameplay and story/writing were excellent, like all of Dave Gilbert's games I've played so far. My only complain were the graphics which weren't that special, especially since I was expecting the same quality as "convergence".
__________________
"Sometimes when you do things right, people are not sure you've done anything at all." -- God (Futurama)
Keregioz is offline  
Old 10-17-2011, 07:33 AM   #23
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Default

To be fair, this was a discussion that Dave Gilbert had with his fans before the game was designed and there was a clear decision to cut back on the graphics a bit. http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/forum/...hp?topic=829.0 Personally I like the style, but I'm a bit biased.
BlankCanvasDJ is offline  
Old 10-17-2011, 09:04 AM   #24
Elegantly copy+pasted
 
After a brisk nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keregioz View Post
As far as graphics go, I don't think any of the blackwell games comes even close to the quality of "blackwell convergence".

Blackwell legacy:


Blackwell convergence:
I prefer the first version. I find the graphics in Convergence to be too shiny and airbrushed, and in some cases a bit blurry. And while both bigbrother and ProgZmax are talented sprite artists, I personally find the look of bigbrother's sprites more appealing.

The tree in that Central Park screen is really nice, though.
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog.
After a brisk nap is offline  
Old 10-17-2011, 09:35 AM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 278
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Berkeley View Post
Well, I didn't start the food analogy. But hopefully my taking it from Silly-ville to Sillier-town ended it.

I was just having my say about how I am sometimes amused and always bemused that these things (subpar voice acting and disagreeable graphics stylistics) can cause someone to possibly dismiss a game.

It's just to me so very tur she airy.

Just weighing in with my opinion that it's almost all about the gameplay.

And that opinion is predicated soley upon your own personal tastes and is therefore totally worthless. Graphics don't matter to you; to some people they do. You are not right and they wrong. Get over yourself. It's a valid complaint.

I played the first game in this series and it hurt my eyes. I cannot stand low resolution games for this reason. If my eyes are hurting as I play a game I will dismiss any gameplay, no matter how good it is, although, by the way, I found it to be tremendously average in that department anyway.
__________________
These are my opinions. Please don't get het up.
cbman is offline  
Old 10-19-2011, 06:31 AM   #26
Senior Member
 
ozzie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Germany
Posts: 726
Default

My only concerns with graphics are that they portray the game world recognizable enough and that they convey atmosphere. If they manage to do that, then the rest isn't that important for me.
I liked that the graphics of Convergence were a step up and more stylish. But otherwise I was disappointed that the gameplay was more shallow.
Still have to play Deception.
ozzie is offline  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:49 AM   #27
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by After a brisk nap View Post
I prefer the first version. I find the graphics in Convergence to be too shiny and airbrushed, and in some cases a bit blurry. And while both bigbrother and ProgZmax are talented sprite artists, I personally find the look of bigbrother's sprites more appealing.

The tree in that Central Park screen is really nice, though.
Ah very good point, that even tho Convergence is by far the most carefully crafted graphics one could still argue that the art-style doesn't really fit the story-style, at least those interior shots that you described as shiny and airbrushed,

I would say that tho I find that to be a interesting point I still really like convergence for it's CONSISTENCY that as far as I remember each shot had a consistent quality, whereas Deception reminds me of 'Beneath a Steel Sky' where the demo-shots were nice and then the rest of the game looked awful and un-inspiring.
TommyTheTurnip is offline  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:52 AM   #28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlankCanvasDJ View Post
To be fair, this was a discussion that Dave Gilbert had with his fans before the game was designed and there was a clear decision to cut back on the graphics a bit. http://www.wadjeteyegames.com/forum/...hp?topic=829.0 Personally I like the style, but I'm a bit biased.
Ah interesting indeed, I guess the choice to lower the graphics quality was indeed a clever choice for him based on his audience (as shown in that thread and by the sales-record),
I guess what I'm saying is not that he did anything immoral/wrong by making this decision, only that he at least lost me as a customer.
TommyTheTurnip is offline  
Old 11-01-2011, 08:16 PM   #29
Member
 
TheLongestJourney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 65
Default

So I just did a super Blackwell marathon and started Blackwell Legacy on Friday and just finished Blackwell Deception tonight (playing each for the first time). I have to say I am very impressed and glad I bought the DVD's because I'll definitely replay them again when the next episode comes out with the commentary.

I really like Rosa and Joey and I think they have a great chemistry and I love using their specific skills to solve puzzles. None of them were all that difficult but they all made sense so I definitely won't complain about that.

Was it just me or did Rosa have a very abrupt personal development?

Possible Spoiler warning?

In Legacy she was very awkward and afraid to talk to people but then in Convergence she didn't seem to retain any of the former social anxiety disorder.

Maybe I just played through them too fast and didn't notice the shift but it's something I realized when I was finishing Deception and wanted to ask others opinions on it.
__________________
Currently playing: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete, Batman: Arkham Asylum
Recently finished:Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
Up Next: Fahrenheit
TheLongestJourney is offline  
Old 11-02-2011, 12:06 AM   #30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: California
Posts: 19
Default

No spoilers. I was disappointed with Deception. It started off with a solid mystery, but then went nowhere with about three sub-plots before the climax abruptly arrived at Rosa's own doorstep (figuratively speaking), without any sense of build-up. The three sub-plots felt like padding. It would have made sense if they each revealed something new and the plot progressed with each twist. Instead it was more like a Russian doll: you got past one layer only to see that an identical one was beneath it.

In layman's terms, the word I'm reaching for is repetitive. I still enjoyed it, but combined with the deliberately lower production values, I would rank this as my least favorite Blackwell game. It's only saving grace is its ending, because you can really get a feel for how Gilbert wants to expand the consequences of Rosa's and Joey's enterprise into unforeseen territory.

And to touch on a topic started by other posters, I prefer Sande Chen's performance of Rosa over Rebecca Whittaker's. Not only do I find Sande more convincing in her line delivery, but she conveys a completely different personality over Rebecca. Sande's Rosa sounds more vulnerable, nerdy, and reluctant, which I find more endearing and fitting for a young woman who doesn't want the responsibility of being a Bestower of Eternity. Rebecca's Rosa comes off as cocksure, sarcastic, and laid back. Not bad at all, but I could never believe it was the "right" choice when compared to Sande.
Peter254 is offline  
Old 11-02-2011, 01:17 PM   #31
Elegantly copy+pasted
 
After a brisk nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLongestJourney View Post
Was it just me or did Rosa have a very abrupt personal development?

In Legacy she was very awkward and afraid to talk to people but then in Convergence she didn't seem to retain any of the former social anxiety disorder.
Dave Gilbert talks about this in one of the developer commentaries, interviews or whatnot. He felt he'd gone a bit overboard in the first game, and decided to dial it back. And you could of course also say that it's the influence of Joey that's starting to draw her out of her shell. But yeah, it's noticeable that her personality changes quite a bit.
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog.
After a brisk nap is offline  
Old 11-02-2011, 05:39 PM   #32
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 4
Default

It definitely feels abrupt (and the voice change certainly doesn't help). I agree that it makes sense that Joey and her new night job would have helped her deal with the crippling social issues she had in the first game but still...it seems to have happened fast. It would have been nice if Convergence took place a few years after Legacy, instead of only a few months.
BlankCanvasDJ is offline  
Old 11-02-2011, 08:20 PM   #33
Member
 
TheLongestJourney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 65
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by After a brisk nap View Post
Dave Gilbert talks about this in one of the developer commentaries, interviews or whatnot. He felt he'd gone a bit overboard in the first game, and decided to dial it back. And you could of course also say that it's the influence of Joey that's starting to draw her out of her shell. But yeah, it's noticeable that her personality changes quite a bit.
Thanks for the info. I'll have to listen to play them again with commentary.
__________________
Currently playing: Lunar: Eternal Blue Complete, Batman: Arkham Asylum
Recently finished:Lunar: Silver Star Story Complete
Up Next: Fahrenheit
TheLongestJourney is offline  
Old 11-17-2011, 04:30 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
DaveGilbert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: New York City, NY
Posts: 175
Send a message via AIM to DaveGilbert Send a message via MSN to DaveGilbert Send a message via Yahoo to DaveGilbert
Default

Hi everyone! A bit late to this thread, but since I've received many comments and questions regarding the graphics I decided to address them in a recent blog post. Thanks, and I appreciate all the criticisms!

-Dave
__________________
Wadjet Eye Games
My developer blog
DaveGilbert is offline  
 



Thread Tools

 


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.