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Home Adventure Forums Gaming Adventure Will LA Noire make adventures mainstream again, or was it just a failed experiment?


View Poll Results: Is L.A. Noire going to be a breakthrough in the history of adventure gaming?
There's bound to be more games like it 21 70.00%
The game won't sell and the gaming industry will just revert to making COD clones 3 10.00%
LA Noire is crap and I hope there are no more games like it 4 13.33%
Adventure games should stay indie 2 6.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:26 PM   #21
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Commercial success of games like

a) Heavy Rain, L.A. Noire... on one side and

b) Casual or lite-adventure games at the other

shows that there is, and always had been a natural human interest for an interactive story experience. It's always been here, it's only that in evolution of games 90's were more of an "adventure decade", and 00's the action one.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:44 PM   #22
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This is my last comment on Gray Matter:

Gray Matter had a huge amount of hype prior to release and was thought by many to be the next big adventure game. The game was released to luke-warm reviews and disappointing sales.

The fact that Prof. Layton has large marketing and production budgets shows you that adventure games are indeed mainstream. LA Noire also has a huge budget - both production and development. This makes it - an adventure game a mainstream title - and it has had huge sales and stellar reviews.

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Old 07-02-2011, 08:53 PM   #23
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Aside from LucasArts, adventure games have always been fairly low budget. These large studios are now starting to create games that have better story telling mechanics because they are doing their best to chase down cinema, not copy adventure games. I think the holy grail of big budget gaming for an Executive is something that tells an incredible story and has immensely fun gameplay. That's all there is to it. Mass Effect is pretty damn close and a few others.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:58 PM   #24
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The lack of physical challenge in adventure games (or "action") has never been the main problem. The real hurdle on the road to mainstream success is playability, accessibility, readability -- whatever you want to call it.

Games like LA Noire, Professor Layton and Heavy Rain (though technically not an adventure game) remove the convolution that plagues traditional point & click adventure games. Puzzles are still there to be solved -- sometimes very difficult ones -- but the difference is the rules and objectives are clear. There is no rubbing inventory items on random hot-spot because the game hasn't explained itself properly, or has misguided expectations of the player.

Adventure games that achieve mainstream success are doing it by embracing a new way of doing things, whether it's altering progression and structure, using new technology or simplifying things.

A game like Gray Matter is not going to be more successful in the future because LA Noire and Heavy Rain opened people's minds to "story games", not if it still has all the problems the genre has been struggling with since its conception.
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Old 07-02-2011, 09:45 PM   #25
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Isn't there a difference between adventure games being successful and what this thread is about - making them mainstream? One is about sales. In the other I would call Grey Matter very successful - great story and puzzles. Whatever sells is whatever is popular at the time and is marketed well, and that's basically all. And adventure is too slow for most people to be popular, for the same reason drama movies aren't as popular as action or comedy movies.
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:07 PM   #26
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If you think LA Noire an ag now that is a breakthrough there.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:21 AM   #27
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Relax, I haven't played it, I was responding to the guy who said he was driving around shooting for 98% of the time. I wouldn't have called that diversification, that's all.
Well it is diversification since adventure games don't have driving....well good driving that is. Not to mention the car chases, plus car shooting I think? Maybe you don't understand the meaning of diversification?

Do you think the driving in Police Quest doesn't add diversification? Let alone the driving was annoying and pure crap. We have to see LA Noire as an adventure game since it really does capture many of the genre's game mechanics. Sure its not a point n click which some people define as the genre, but that shouldn't be the case at all since it a completely wrong assumption.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:35 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikekelly View Post
This is my last comment on Gray Matter:

Gray Matter had a huge amount of hype prior to release and was thought by many to be the next big adventure game. The game was released to luke-warm reviews and disappointing sales.
And here's my last comment:

Agreed about some degree of hype (among the old-school adventure gamers group), agreed about the somewhat luke-warm reviews. But there's way too little data to talk about disappointing sales. In fact for now Gray Matter seems to have been as successful as a western point&click adventure game can be in the current market.

If there won't be any sequels in the next few years and the publisher will opt to invest in other adventure games instead - that would be a good proof the sales were disappointing. For now it's all speculation and stretching the available information to fit personal theories.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:54 AM   #29
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Agreed about some degree of hype (among the old-school adventure gamers group)
And this is a very narrow group indeed. It seems like huge hype when you're inside the group, but in fact it's so narrow that it won't have much of an effect at all in the "big picture".
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Old 07-03-2011, 02:31 AM   #30
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Whether Gray Matter sold bad or not is not really the main concern - no one expected it to be next Call of Duty or something - because genre is not that popular. If you're doing adventure game you're prepared not to hit big numbers but in best scenario you hope to sell well.

Obviously, there IS adventure game market or we wouldn't had seen any adventure game in last 10 years. It's just that particular market is enough to do business, and not to make groundbreaking sales.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:32 AM   #31
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Thanks for your thoughts on the subject

It's all very interesting

just some points I'd like to make as well
- I wasn't at all aware of the sales of the game when I made this post

- Someone said 98% of the game is spent shooting and driving, he OBVIOUSLY hasn't played the game. Driving is optional and shooting and chases are used sparsely to give a little diversity to the game

- I'd love to see games that blur the boundaries (like LA Noire and Heavy Rain) as well as traditional point and clicks. Let's hope for more story driven intelligence based games in the future

- Those facts about prof. layton and phoenix wright are very interesting and give me some hope, I wonder why the 3ds has so many great titles while other consoles rely on action only...
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:53 PM   #32
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It seems an argument can be made for a lot of games which will never be reviewed on AGers. So Portal and LA Noire are adventure games despite the shooting, running and jumping, but what about Alice: Madness Returns? Lots of adventure and exploration there alongside the jumping and collecting. Dragon Age? Sure there's a bit of fighting but also lots of story, puzzles and exploration.

All these seem to fit in the definition of this site that "Adventure games are all about stories, exploring worlds and solving puzzles." Shouldn't fighting and role-playing be allowed to take a more prominent role in adventure games?
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Old 07-03-2011, 07:58 PM   #33
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It seems an argument can be made for a lot of games which will never be reviewed on AGers. So Portal and LA Noire are adventure games despite the shooting, running and jumping, but what about Alice: Madness Returns? Lots of adventure and exploration there alongside the jumping and collecting. Dragon Age? Sure there's a bit of fighting but also lots of story, puzzles and exploration.

All these seem to fit in the definition of this site that "Adventure games are all about stories, exploring worlds and solving puzzles." Shouldn't fighting and role-playing be allowed to take a more prominent role in adventure games?
I agree to an extent...sadly this will lead to another discussion on AG's guidelines for reviews.

The problem with Dragon Age is the fact that it primarily if not 100% fits in the RPG category, which is a genre which has shared itself with adventure games for some time if not forever.

Alice is a platfomer, which shares pretty much the same game mechanics as every other platformer. It is in itself an action/adventure with action overtones.

LA Noire at least 89% of the time shares mechanics with Adventure games. Interrogation, Investigation, Exploration, etc. Alice is about 25% Adventure, Dragon Age is just an RPG.
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:18 PM   #34
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99% of the time the driving is completely optional. I spent the whole game getting my partner to drive and fast travelling to the next adventure bit.

Alos you can't pull the gun out unless the story demands it.

Compared to any normal open world game there is very little actualy shooting involved in the game.
"Very little" ... hardly. There is quite a lot, even in main story. Even the ending is a car chase, then a big shoot out. Not that I am complaining. I like grand theft auto, red dead redemption. And for the side missions you must drive around in order to get them. It is the way the game is suppose to be experienced.

I just wouldn't consider LA Noire an adventure. Like Heavy Rain, I wouldn't put it in the "adventure" category. Its a detective game. sure, it has its adventure aspects... but in every mission theres punch-ups, chasing, driving, shooting. And a lot of its NOT optional. Sorry die hard adventure fans. Get over it.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:51 PM   #35
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"Very little" ... hardly. There is quite a lot, even in main story. Even the ending is a car chase, then a big shoot out. Not that I am complaining. I like grand theft auto, red dead redemption. And for the side missions you must drive around in order to get them. It is the way the game is suppose to be experienced.

I just wouldn't consider LA Noire an adventure. Like Heavy Rain, I wouldn't put it in the "adventure" category. Its a detective game. sure, it has its adventure aspects... but in every mission theres punch-ups, chasing, driving, shooting. And a lot of its NOT optional. Sorry die hard adventure fans. Get over it.
very little, hardly? I don't know, 80-90% of the time you don't have to drive. Plus I wouldn't compare the game to GTA or Red Dead at all....well Red Dead to the point that it did a better job at telling a story set during a certain era. I agree to get over it, but a lot of the shooting and fighting don't encompass the whole game. They are there to add to the impact and realism of the whole experience.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:38 AM   #36
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You know, for all the endless arguments over genres that happen in these forums, I don't think I've ever once seen an actual definition of "adventure" that rules out any game we've reviewed. People just like definitively arguing based on their own nebulous, unspecified personal feeling on the matter. We should institute a new rule: if you're going to argue definitions, then state your own first. You'll probably be amazed at how quickly it falls apart.

As for L.A. Noire, I don't think it will have any noticeable impact on the genre. It's already selling well, so by no means is it a failure. But like Heavy Rain, it's doing so for two main reasons: 1) production values that only a staggering budget allows, and 2) the fact that they're different. Because AAA story-driven adventures are so rare, they're embraced as refreshing changes of pace. If they do have any influence, it's in inspiring cheaper clones that fail in both categories. That's not to say that all games that follow will be poor ones, but it does mean they will quickly slide back into the niche markets such games were always popular in.
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Old 07-04-2011, 01:17 PM   #37
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As for L.A. Noire, I don't think it will have any noticeable impact on the genre. It's already selling well, so by no means is it a failure. But like Heavy Rain, it's doing so for two main reasons: 1) production values that only a staggering budget allows, and 2) the fact that they're different. Because AAA story-driven adventures are so rare, they're embraced as refreshing changes of pace. If they do have any influence, it's in inspiring cheaper clones that fail in both categories. That's not to say that all games that follow will be poor ones, but it does mean they will quickly slide back into the niche markets such games were always popular in.
While I think it's possible your analysis can turn out to be right, I also think there's a larger breeding ground for optimism this time. And by "this time" I mean that the previous attempts to revive the genre into the mainstream sort of failed.

* Not since the Golden Age of adventure games has there been more focus on interactive storytelling.

* Games that offer "adventure-like" experiences are more common than 5-10 years ago.

* It's the first time in 10+ years adventure-ish games have had this much attention from both the publishers, the industry in general, and the customers. L.A. Noire and Heavy Rain have sold just as many copies as other big AAA games, so Rockstar and Sony are bound to continue in the same path. I would be very surprised if we don't see a L.A. Noire 2 and a new game based on the Heavy Rain concept (probably not a sequel, David Cage doesn't want that, but a game based on the same mechanics and semi-free storytelling). And in this business sequels are very important market indicators - if we get sequels/similar concepts from Rockstar and Sony, I think it will show other big budget studios, that AAA adventure-like games are worth the effort.

All that said, there's always the possibility, like you mentioned, that a large portion of the sales from Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire is tied to peoples curiosity. So it could be that future adventure-ish games from Rockstar/Sony won't sell quite as well, because some of the customers bought the previous games out of curiosity.

EDIT: Adjusted the last sentence in the third bullet point.

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Old 07-04-2011, 03:02 PM   #38
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You know, for all the endless arguments over genres that happen in these forums, I don't think I've ever once seen an actual definition of "adventure" that rules out any game we've reviewed. People just like definitively arguing based on their own nebulous, unspecified personal feeling on the matter. We should institute a new rule: if you're going to argue definitions, then state your own first. You'll probably be amazed at how quickly it falls apart.
That's a bit of an extreme statement (or maybe even a provocation ). AdventureGamers' own definition is nebulous and very broad. Don't get me wrong, I think it's exactly why it serves its purpose so well (covering almost anything that anyone possibly could classify as an adventure game), but one can easily formulate a definition specific enough to rule out many games you've reviewed, especially the often discussed titles like Myst or Portal. For the record I consider the former an adventure game, but not the latter.

I once wrote an entire article that explains my own definition, if someone wants to make it "fall apart" or something:

http://www.hardydev.com/2010/03/10/w...dventure-game/

The definition itself is not a pretty one (it's somewhat formal and long), but it gets the job done. And it's definitely even more controversial than the nebulous ones.
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Old 07-04-2011, 08:59 PM   #39
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AdventureGamers' own definition is nebulous and very broad.
It's broad, but it's not at all nebulous. There's no uncertainty at all about which three core principles are required and which aren't. The only debate is about degrees, and that's not an issue of definition.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I think it's exactly why it serves its purpose so well (covering almost anything that anyone possibly could classify as an adventure game), but one can easily formulate a definition specific enough to rule out many games you've reviewed.
I have no problem with that. Though I highly, highly suspect it isn't nearly so easy without inadvertently ruling out a whole lot of games they do think are adventures. But that's neither here nor there. The whole point is having one. At least then there's a point of reference for discussion. Without that, there's just a bunch of Justice Stewarts running around with the "I know it when I see it" argument, conclusively pronouncing others wrong with no definition at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jannik
All that said, there's always the possibility, like you mentioned, that a large portion of the sales from Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire is tied to peoples curiosity. So it could be that future adventure-ish games from Rockstar/Sony won't sell quite as well, because some of the customers bought the previous games out of curiosity.
I can see sequels to those games selling fine, as they're both established (potential) franchises now. I just don't see a lot of other publishers jumping on the mega-budget adventure(ish) bandwagon, because to emulate Rockstar's/Sony's success is so costly and difficult to do. I think instead we'll get games like Red Johnson's Chronicles and Jurassic Park, which ride the coattails of those game without the funds or the novelty factor working in their favour.
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Old 07-05-2011, 02:32 AM   #40
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I can see sequels to those games selling fine, as they're both established (potential) franchises now. I just don't see a lot of other publishers jumping on the mega-budget adventure(ish) bandwagon, because to emulate Rockstar's/Sony's success is so costly and difficult to do. I think instead we'll get games like Red Johnson's Chronicles and Jurassic Park, which ride the coattails of those game without the funds or the novelty factor working in their favour.
I think we partly agree - If we don't see (spiritual) sequels to Heavy Rain and L.A. Noire the hole thing will turn out as a niche sub-genre. I don't think the publishers with the big budgets will emulate Rockstar's and Sony's success if we don't see those sequels. But if we do, at least one or two will make a big budget adventure-like game. Because that's how things usually work - big publishers go where the money is And as I suggested, I think the market is more or less ready these days, when it comes to story games with adventure elements.

EDIT: Arh, I keep posting in a hurry, without proofreading, etc: I think most publishers will wait a few months and see if the sequels are successful. Kind of obvious, but you never know if people, and I don't blame them, read a forum post more or less 1-to-1

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