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Home Adventure Forums Gaming Adventure To die or not to die: that's the question. In Adventure games


View Poll Results: To die or not to die: That's the question. In Adventure games
Yes 15 17.65%
No 29 34.12%
Yes, but... 34 40.00%
No, but... 7 8.24%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:07 AM   #21
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It's a problem.

If you allow dying, players will just want to save every time every 2 minutes to make sure they don't have to reload too far back after they die. Like in Space Quest where dying is common.

Without dying, games can start to get boring. When you can do nothing wrong, you don't really think as much about what you are doing, making the game less serious and hence enjoyable.

It really depends on the game. I think it would be ridiculous not to allow dying in a horror game, and adds the necessary fear to the game, but in a fun game like Day of the Tentacle it's not needed and is better without it.
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Without dying, games can start to get boring.
Maybe for masochists and action game lovers, I can manage fine without dying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
When you can do nothing wrong, you don't really think as much about what you are doing, making the game less serious and hence enjoyable.
I don't understand this. The (adventure?) game is enjoyable when it's not serious? The less serious the (adventure?) game is, the more enjoyable it is? Or you mean the (adventure?) game has to be serious to be enjoyable?!?
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Old 04-03-2011, 07:52 AM   #23
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"It really depends on the game. I think it would be ridiculous not to allow dying in a horror game, and adds the necessary fear to the game, but in a fun game like Day of the Tentacle it's not needed and is better without it."

I think Oscar explained what he meant pretty well there. I'm not sure I completely agree but I've had my say and my vote.
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:04 AM   #24
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I voted No and allow me to quote myself for the reason why:

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Originally Posted by ZeframCochrane View Post
What is it exactly that we find scary in games? In these terms, the question is too broad. To pursue this line of thoughts we have to exclude all scare tactics (disturbing images, unsettling soundtrack, sudden visual cues, a small amount of cheap thrills etc.) that are common to both games were you can die and games where you can't. Let's rephrase the question to something more manageable, then: which scare component is present only in games were death is possible?

Well, certainly not death itself. Although we may be caught in the game action, the pillowy chair we sit on will always remind us that there is no real death risk. So what is it then? The only answer I can think if is that we're scared of the nuisance of possibly losing game progress. So, once you decide that in the game you're designing death will be possible, you face two options:

1) Implement an autosave feature. This way, whenever your character dies, the game will be restored to a previous state immediately before the death sequence, so that no game progress will be lost in the process. Well... doesn't this defeat the purpose? If our fear stems from the possibility of losing game progress, won't eliminating such possibility also... eliminate the fear?

2) Leave saving to the gamer. You forgot to save? Though noogies. The monster eat you. You're dead, and you can either pick up from that savegame you created two hours ago, or start the game from the beginning altogether. I have no rational argument against this strategy but... although I can take it from an FPS, you shouldn't be surprised if you see me hurling an adventure game out of the window if this happens. The frustration overcomes the excitement, and the result is a negative sum.

So, option 1 makes me go "meh", and option 2 makes me go "ARGH!". I'm not sure a game developer would want to elicit either out of their faithful gamer... From my point of view, I've always felt sufficiently scared by those tactics I mentioned earlier, and games aplenty are stuffed with them (The Lost Crown, Barrow Hill, Scratches, Dark Fall... etc).
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Old 04-03-2011, 10:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jelena View Post
Having to do such a stealth/shooting or timed sequence again and again and again (since I suck at said elements) is boring imo. I'm glad it's rare in adventure games.
While I can see that those will be involved in death a lot, I think that action sections are a whole separate discussion. I'm fortunate in that I like playing some action games as well, so such things rarely phase me. For those that only play adventure games, I can fully understand why these are frustrating.
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Originally Posted by Kazmajik View Post
Many of the Sierra games went a little overboard on the fatal consequences of innocent actions, ...
Ah, yes. Failure to do a walk-round check of your car in the updated Police Quest 1 was just one example. In the original version you simply got a flat tyre when you left (it was still a game over but at least related to the need to check for defects before taking a car out). In the updated version failure to do the check resulted in a high-speed car smashing into the side of you the moment you drove out.
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Originally Posted by UPtimist View Post
The middle ground is what I want. Or the Monkey Island way (you know "Goodbye cruel adventure game! ... Nah forget it." or the whole Elaine interrupting Guybrush to say that he couldn't have died).
I think MI is the exception. Because the refusal was made in a humourous way appropriate to the overall feel of the game that didn't feel too bad. My problem is that it tells me that I don't have control over the character. If I start to feel I'm just making suggestions rather than controlling the PC then that can ruin a game for me.
Quote:
P.S. On the other hand, I heard there's an interesting death scene (or rather the aforementioned instant replay option) in a Monty Python game...
I believe you're referring to the Vorpal Rabbit scene in Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Fail to destroy the rabbit and it gorily bites all your knights heads off. The game then asks you if you'd like to restart where you died. Say yes and you get to enjoy the rabbit gorily biting all your knights heads off again. Say no and it asks if you'd like to restart BEFORE where you died, thus having a second chance to kill the rabbit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
Without dying, games can start to get boring. When you can do nothing wrong, you don't really think as much about what you are doing, making the game less serious and hence enjoyable.
I think games can be fun in a lot of ways without death. There are also a lot of ways things can go wrong that don't involve dying. If I slam a door behind me and then realise my keys are the other side of it, I have a problem to solve due to a mistake but I'm not dead.
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:10 PM   #26
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Yeah I think I can agree with most people here.. 'Yes' to die but of course
there should be perfectly good reasoning and have an option at least to revert back to your last point before you kicked the bucket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zane View Post
Death scenes add a certain atmosphere you cant get otherwise. It makes it feel like your actions matter and you should fear the unknown.
Yes some games, the more serious ones need this to keep your immersion
as real as possible. But there are those AG's that don't take themselves serious
and have a more light hearted approach... these could probably do without death.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stepurhan View Post
I think dying should appear in adventure games where it would be illogical for it not to. If a player deliberately takes a dangerous action then not killing the player for it blows the immersion in the story. So walking next to the piranha-infested pond shouldn't result in accidental slip and death but choosing to dive into the pond should. The middle ground is the player character refusing to do stupid actions ("there's no way I'm jumping in there!"). That still affects the immersion for me but not as badly as just ignoring the possibility of death entirely.
That said, any games featuring death should have an auto-save or restart death sequence option.
Yeah what you said..... totally agree.
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:44 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zobraks View Post
Maybe for masochists and action game lovers, I can manage fine without dying.

I don't understand this. The (adventure?) game is enjoyable when it's not serious? The less serious the (adventure?) game is, the more enjoyable it is? Or you mean the (adventure?) game has to be serious to be enjoyable?!?
Maybe I put that wrong. I'll try again, but I can only speak from experience. When I'm playing a game where I know I can't die, I'm clicking on everything, doing any action I can to solve the puzzle. It's more laid back for me because I feel I can do no wrong. I tend not to think as much because there is no threat. Death changes the game because not only do you have to solve the puzzle you are facing (doing a correct action), you have to avoid death (doing an incorrect action). That double-edged sword is what made games like Space Quest fun.

You could also say it's more interactive. Clicking through all dialogue options and all items to exhaust all options is like watching a movie, you're not really playing a game. There's that extra distance between you and the character you're playing. In something like Heart of China, you need to think what dialogue would be best given the situation knowing that saying the wrong thing could be dangerous. I can't imagine that game being as good without death when the story relies so much on a sense of danger. When you are allowed infinite conversation attempts to pass through armed warriors guarding a gate, it loses some realism.

Of course, I am only talking about puzzles here, not story. The story can be completely involving death or no death but in relation to puzzles I think death can add an extra dimension when needed. Also, we're not really talking about JUST death, are we? This discussion could apply to "you have failed to save the princess" or other ends to the game which makes your quest impossible to complete. It's not necessarily morbid or masochistic, just a game technique.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:20 AM   #28
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It depends, either way is fine. The early-'90s Lucasarts philosophy should not have taken over the genre the way it has. They were correct about not making dead ends, but there's no reason for adventure games to not have deaths if it's called for (especially if there's an auto-backtrack).
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:57 PM   #29
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I think that dying in adventure games adds to the realism of the game; so if there is some dangerous situations during gameplay, its only logical that the character could die. On the other hand, most of the adventure players don't like "action" during the game, and "ability to die" may qualify as one of the "action elements".

In the end, I would say that it depends on the context: which type of the story is in question. There are some games and gameplays where simply there isn't much place for "dying", because they don't feature any of the "life and death" situations at all. On the other hand, there are also lot of sinister and dark themes, that would seem incomplete if the character couldn't die.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:59 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustCropper View Post
It depends completely on the game and the mood the designer is trying to create.
'Nuff said
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:19 AM   #31
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Yes, it definitely adds to the experience and excitement of an adventure game for me. But only if you get unlimited automatic replay points like in Gemini Rue.
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Old 04-05-2011, 10:56 AM   #32
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I'm dreaming that one day there will be a really good online adventure-game and if you die (out of mistake, not out of random) then your character will truely die and you won't get to replay it, in fact your IP will then be banned from trying to make a new account

Also it will send romantic invitations to everyone in your mailing-list.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:40 AM   #33
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I dunno, MrLOL. Your post is intruiging. Like in Heavy Rain, if your character dies, you can't replay them...unless you start the game all over. I like that, but it could be frustrating in adventure games, and I wouldn't want my IP blocked so I could never play again, especially if I paid for it.

But you brought up a really interesting idea. To have a character die, and not be able to play that character again...
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Old 04-05-2011, 03:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrLOL View Post
I'm dreaming that one day there will be a really good online adventure-game and if you die (out of mistake, not out of random) then your character will truely die and you won't get to replay it, in fact your IP will then be banned from trying to make a new account

Also it will send romantic invitations to everyone in your mailing-list.
Flash game called "One Chance":

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/555181

It's an "adventure game" in the sense that there are no action elements. Once you complete it (no matter what happens), you're done (unless you scrub out all your cookies etc. I guess). Definitely would recommend all of you give it a shot. It's not long.
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Old 04-05-2011, 08:44 PM   #35
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Flash game called "One Chance":

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/555181

It's an "adventure game" in the sense that there are no action elements. Once you complete it (no matter what happens), you're done (unless you scrub out all your cookies etc. I guess). Definitely would recommend all of you give it a shot. It's not long.
That has been around for a while. I'm not sure what they are doing to prevent it, but is seems to be something sever side. Clearing cookies, using a different browser, etc. does not work.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:28 AM   #36
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That has been around for a while. I'm not sure what they are doing to prevent it, but is seems to be something sever side. Clearing cookies, using a different browser, etc. does not work.
Cool! will check out for sure!

And yes I was kinda being sarcastic, I didn't know that Heavy Rain was actually like that lol (I just watched the let's play pretending to hold a controller)
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:37 AM   #37
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Yes, but without blind points. I think that the deaths in an adventure game are positive because are useful to enrich the argument and the gameplay experience. But I hate the blind points, I thinks that they're totally unnecessary.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:23 AM   #38
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The worst is when you can only die at 1 or 2 moments in the game. (i'm looking at you GK1.) If your going to be able to die in the game, the game should kill you right from the start in order to warn you, not give you a false sense of confidence and then murder you 5 hours in. In GK I wasn't saving often because I didn't think I needed to and then boom, my heart is ripped out. In Sierra games you die often, but at least you know to expect it.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:35 PM   #39
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In the old Sierra days, to die or not to die depended on the verb you used in the text-based game. "Pull rock" you died. "Push rock" you not only lived, but you found the knife you needed.

Save early and save often was the mantra.

Most of today's games don't have that risk. That's too bad in a way. You can poke, prod, examine anything without fear.
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Old 04-08-2011, 12:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
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Most of today's games don't have that risk. That's too bad in a way. You can poke, prod, examine anything without fear.
To me that's not "too bad" but almost the whole point
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