[Sone3D]

Hi everyone.

Your "3 Must Follow adventure games Rules"?

For me:
1-Puzzles must be logical (not WTF!, how on the hell could I know?)
2-Not "neverending" conversations. Brief...please. I don't like games with those conversations, and conversations trees, and conversations, and talk to,...
3-No infinite puzzles, trial-error puzzles, like the one on Vampyre Story with demonic snot and colors, even on a basic knowing of what do, becoming a trial-error puzzle.

Sorry my english.

[Collector]

This is not my 3, but a response to yours.

Puzzles must be organic to the game. No arbitrary, random roadblocks that only serve to lengthen a game and do not add anything to the narrative. They should feel more like problem solving than puzzle solving.

I like dialog, at least when it is not just padding to needlessly fill out a game. When it give you information/clues or narrative development and is well written, it can be good.

[Fantasysci5]

Hmm. I agree with you, Collector; I like when puzzles actually make sense in the story, and not just something for you to do.

For me, my most important rule is fleshing things out; Characters and plot are my favorite area in games, and I love a well fleshed out plot or characters. I hate when something is introduced and then never heard from again; it's like, "Then why did you bring it up?!". Also, characters in a game just to solve a puzzle doesn't appeal to me. I like all of my characters, even small bit ones, to have character and backstory, even if it's not all told. I don't like them just being another way to get information to you. As long as they flesh out plot and characters, I'm happy.

[Weare6]

My 3....
1. Its got to be hard... (if it means dying YES!)
2. Puzzels should be difficult (and Organic like Collector mentioned)
3. No hotspots.... I want to work for my inventory
(conclusion: The game should NOT be easy like so many are today.
A difficulty setting could be a good idea to accommodate everyones need)

[terhardp]

1) The story must be captivating and engaging.
2) The characters must be memorable, charismatic and original.
3) The atmosphere and mood must be above average.

I may close one or both my eyes to the flaws in those three areas if the game has good graphic, music, sound, gameplay, navigation. Good puzzles are also important to me, though not crucial for overall good game.

[Gabe]

My 3
-An ag hero/heroine must share "personal"observations and comments about the enviroment he/she wonders in(eg.Circle Of Blood)
-Npc's must aware of hero/heroine's actions and be reactive
-Ag setting must have open world and free roaming for replayability and solutions must rely totally player's observation skills.

[Lee in Limbo]

Gabe, I hope you'll forgive me for saying this, but I usually find that I cannot agree with most of your posts. Today is not one of those times, however. I think you're 100% right on all three counts.

As for some of the other lists, I think it's pretty subjective, and no two players are likely to agree on all important points (witness the above paragraph). However, I think there are some common elements in all classic AGs, and the most important, to my mind, are:
1) Immersive Environments
2) Strong Narrative
3) Engaging Characters and Situations

The rest is just window dressing, really. A dash of this, a pinch of that, and cook until ready.

[cwapitm]

Hmm

1. No slider puzzles
2. Keep stealth sequences to a minimum or don't have them at all
3. No dead ends (of course adventure games now days don't have that problem)

[marvio]

Originally Posted by Weare6

My 3....
1. Its got to be hard... (if it means dying YES!)
2. Puzzels should be difficult (and Organic like Collector mentioned)
3. No hotspots.... I want to work for my inventory
(conclusion: The game should NOT be easy like so many are today.
A difficulty setting could be a good idea to accommodate everyones need)

I'm not sure about 3 man... All that does is lead to endless pixel hunting, and re-hunting? That's what I would call paddign a game to make it seem longer

1- Characers who aren't obtuse, if you could tell 5 hours ago that something is happening/will happen, some kind of emotional develppment, whatever, don't make the character only realize this at the end of the game!!

2- STORY!! CHARCTER DEVELOPMENT!!!

3- Organic gameplay

[inm8#2]

Story
Atmosphere
Logical puzzles

[Weare6]

Originally Posted by marvio

I'm not sure about 3 man... All that does is lead to endless pixel hunting, and re-hunting? That's what I would call paddign a game to make it seem longer

Sorry cant agree with you... Hot Spots are for beginners. If you cant be bothered exploring the screen for a while then you simply impatient. When I was growing up pixel hunting was just another part of an adventure. They keep streamlining these games to make it more fluid but really they are making them too easy... and yes if it makes the game longer, harder all the better. People these days could not be bothered to work things out for themselves.. they want to be told how to do it.
But don't get me wrong I know a lot of people don't agree with me & they find pixel hunting a chore... thats fine and I guess most games have a button so you can choose.... but it just too tempting to cheat.
Anyways.....I like Your 3 choices

[Ascovel]

A good adventure game needs to have:

1. Random puzzle solutions
2. Extreme pixel hunting
3. Dead ends that force re-playing the whole game

[zobraks]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

A good adventure game needs to have:

1. Random puzzle solutions
2. Extreme pixel hunting
3. Dead ends that force re-playing the whole game

Originally Posted by Gonchi

Making sure we're paying attention?

x

[Lee in Limbo]

Originally Posted by ascovel

a good adventure game needs to have:

1. Random puzzle solutions
2. Extreme pixel hunting
3. Dead ends that force re-playing the whole game

*wild applause*

[kate me]

Let's see:
First, I should like the backgrounds, the story, etc.
I like games that can change the story depending on your decisions.
(mostly alternative endings! to few games with that!)
A big inventory!
Good or at least OK voice acting.

Or it could be just a goat, a sewer key, or a tree headed monkey, or a blue rubber ducky in it ! ::

[mrLOL]

Originally Posted by kate me

A big inventory!

That's what she said!

Originally Posted by Ascovel

A good adventure game needs to have:

1. Random puzzle solutions
2. Extreme pixel hunting
3. Dead ends that force re-playing the whole game

Which company is it that you work as the creative director for? Telltale, lucasarts, other? or are you perhaps working as a puzzle-consultant for the entire adventure-game industry?

Originally Posted by Gabe

My 3
-An ag hero/heroine must share "personal"observations and comments about the enviroment he/she wonders in(eg.Circle Of Blood)

Hmm interesting oppinion I've never thought about it that way before, could maybe also contain a bit of direction on what it is you are supposed to be doing, as sometimes in adventure-games I lose focus on what I was supposed to be doing, so having a dialogue triggered when you walk into a certain room might be cool like "Ugh What the hell happened in this room? I hope it has nothing to do with [insert a subtle reminder of your task]"

[marvio]

Originally Posted by Weare6

Sorry cant agree with you... Hot Spots are for beginners. If you cant be bothered exploring the screen for a while then you simply impatient. When I was growing up pixel hunting was just another part of an adventure. They keep streamlining these games to make it more fluid but really they are making them too easy... and yes if it makes the game longer, harder all the better. People these days could not be bothered to work things out for themselves.. they want to be told how to do it.
But don't get me wrong I know a lot of people don't agree with me & they find pixel hunting a chore... thats fine and I guess most games have a button so you can choose.... but it just too tempting to cheat.
Anyways.....I like Your 3 choices

I have nohing against a really hard AG, but pixel hunting is something I definitely not miss, it's just a mindless and methodical scanning of the screen, you're not exploring, you're fighting the interface, and at that point you're completely out of the game, and very aware this is a computer. Know what I mean...

But we can agree to disagree...

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by mrLOL

Which company is it that you work as the creative director for? Telltale, lucasarts, other? or are you perhaps working as a puzzle-consultant for the entire adventure-game industry?

I'm paving my way in that direction.

So far I worked on an adventure game about an alcoholic who is trying to stop a murder plot, but gets lost in his alcohol-induced hallucinations instead, and on another game about a crazy, half-blind dwarven warrior, who is afraid of touching things with his hands and needs to build a conversation interface out of his inventory before he can communicate with anyone in a more civilized manner.

[colpet]

1. Lots of places to explore
2. multilayered, challenging puzzles
3. minimal character interaction.

[Luther10]

1. STORY - I like story-driven games, doesn't have to be awesome, just not be boring
2. LOCATIONS - lots of different places to explore from start to finish is definitely a plus, I hate to cycle through same places over and over again
3. CHARACTERS - they can make/break any game, especially the leads