[MoP]

Figured this would be relevant to the discussion - Aaron Conners, co-author of the mentioned "3 Cards..." series (among others of course ), from about a year ago ( source):

Originally Posted by Aaron Conners

Our hope with the 3 Cards series was to create a game that would be casual enough to appeal to casual gamers, but offer enough story and challenge to please the more core adventure gamers; after making these two games, I'm not sure it's even possible. Many casual gamers aren't patient enough to get into the story and think even the easiest difficulty levels are too hard, while many adventure gamers find the structure too restrictive and repetitive. We used to think that there was some crossover there (and maybe there will be in the future), but what makes a successful casual game is mostly a direct contradiction to adventure design.

[zobraks]

I share Mr Conners' opinion: hidden object games and (real) adventure games are like oil and water - they don't mix. On the other hand although I prefer AGs I truly enjoy (in a similar but different way) playing (many of the) HOGs. I don't care what genre a game is as long as it's fun for me to play (and I don't rack my brains too much about WHY it's fun to play).

[Pilaus]

Originally Posted by Monolith

I guess the best way to make the game Casual and Hardcore is to offer two modes. Casual will offer the story, but in a more to the point fashion with less scenes. The hardcore mode will offer full length cutscenes and dialogue.

A silmilar idea was applied in Microsoft’s Pandora’s Box more than a decade ago. I loved being able to replay the puzzles as many time as I wished. It was really relaxing to play one or two after a hard day’s work. I think it was basically a puzzle game but had an overall story as well. Those puzzles, however, were more spectacular and challenging than most of today’s HO screens.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by zobraks

I share Mr Conners' opinion: hidden object games and (real) adventure games are like oil and water - they don't mix. On the other hand although I prefer AGs I truly enjoy (in a similar but different way) playing (many of the) HOGs. I don't care what genre a game is as long as it's fun for me to play (and I don't rack my brains too much about WHY it's fun to play).

I agree to an extend. The concept in a way is different from AG's, but to be honest, AG's still require you to randomly look for an object that will help you in your quest. HOG's can in a way work its way out to be built the same way. As long as you define a clear objective for the user, it could still be an AG.

[cbman]

Originally Posted by MoP

Figured this would be relevant to the discussion - Aaron Conners, co-author of the mentioned "3 Cards..." series (among others of course ), from about a year ago ( source):

I couldn't agree more. Hopefully more developers will start to realize this.

[cbman]

Originally Posted by Monolith

I find that HOG's sort of require the need of a story. Why? I feel that in order to compete in the market, you need to do more than just a puzzle game that follows the same genre based formula.

I guess the best way to make the game Casual and Hardcore is to offer two modes. Casual will offer the story, but in a more to the point fashion with less scenes. The hardcore mode will offer full length cutscenes and dialogue.

But the stories in casual games usually are not worth bothering with because they have nothing to do with the gameplay (and they're hardly storytelling masterpieces in their own right). The story is just a framing device around the puzzles, rather than game itself, as in an AG.


I would put it this way:

Casual games are really puzzle games, dressed up with a story.

Adventure Games are stories, dressed up with puzzles.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by cbman

But the stories in casual games usually are not worth bothering with because they have nothing to do with the gameplay (and they're hardly storytelling masterpieces in their own right). The story is just a framing device around the puzzles, rather than game itself, as in an AG.


I would put it this way:

Casual games are really puzzle games, dressed up with a story.

Adventure Games are stories, dressed up with puzzles.

Like I said before, by making the gameplay work for the story, you wouldn't fall into that problem.

Food for thought, why can't HOG's be Hardcore? AG's can be casual, so why not a well polished, thoughtful, large budgeted HOG become a hardcore game?

[RobertNL84]

I would really like to see such a hybrid game.
For example I point out the 7th guest. It's relax because of its puzzels, there is a good background story, some exploring.
You can extract thath concept to a hybrid game, a 7th guest-lite

What i really hate about the casual games is the repetitive clicking and non-dynamic backgrounds. Pixelhunting and endlessly trying out sequences.
What i really like is the very good atmosphere. (like Dire grove)

about puzzels in casual adventures: if i wanted to play chess i buy a chess-game, is i buy an adventure i would like to explore something or experience something.
It doenst always have to be a mind blowing experience like Broken sword....