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taterfyrings 02-21-2011 03:27 PM
Sierra Adventure Games
 
I guess I am not alone in being very excited about the prospect of a new King's Quest from Telltale, and it made me want to go back and replay a few of the Sierra Adventure Games that I have missed. I have no problem what-so-ever with bad graphics, and I actually find it quite charming more often then not, however, one thing I have a huge problem with is the possibility to get stuck in the game because you missed an essential item earlier. So my question to you experts here are, when did Sierra start to make their games without this possibility of getting stuck? I remember the first few King's Quests and also Space Quest 1 had situations which made you have to start over if you did not pay attention, but I am sure they continued to create games like this for a while?

Hopefully someone here can illuminate me a bit on this issue, and thanks a lot anyways guys!

diego 02-21-2011 04:08 PM
King's Quest 7 was the critical moment in many ways - it was the very first Sierra's high-res adventure game, it featured two protagonists, it introduced "sensitive" or "smart cursor" which would later become a default...

It was also a big budget production and the introduction to Sierra's later titles like Phantasmagoria and Gabriel Knight 2.

Kurufinwe 02-21-2011 04:28 PM
That's an interesting question. Let's see...
  • King's Quest: KQ1-5 are full of dead ends, and the game regularly tries to trick you into getting into those dead ends. KQ6 has a few, but you're sort of warned in advance, so you should know that you need to use different save slots at those points (also you might reach situations preventing you from getting the best ending). KQ7 and MOE are dead-end free. The AGDI remake of KQ1 offers the option to play without dead-ends, and their reinvention of KQ2 doesn't have dead-ends.
  • Quest for Glory: Dead-ends in 1 and 2 for sure. Maybe not in 3. There's at least one I can think of in 4, possibly more. Possibly none in 5.
  • Space Quest: For SQ1 to SQ4, see my comments re: KQ1-5, except it's even worse. There might very well be no dead-ends in SQ5, but I'm not completely certain. Probably none in 6.
  • Leisure Suit Larry: I can think of a few dead-ends in LSL1-5. I think LSL6 and 7 are without dead ends (pretty certain for 7).
  • Gabriel Knight: I think there's only one dead end in GK1, and you get ample warning; if you actually walk into that one, you're just dumb. No dead-ends in GK2 and 3, though in GK3 you can definitely reach a situation where you won't be able to get the optimal resolution to certain sub-plots (the main story is not affected).
  • Laura Bow: Probably no dead-ends in 1, but you might reach a situation from which you'll be unable to get the good ending. LB2 is full of dead-ends (and plain awful).
  • Conquests series: Camelot is full of dead-ends. I'm not sure there actually are dead-ends in Longbow; at the very least situations preventing you from getting anything other than a bad ending.

Torin's Passage doesn't have dead-ends. Freddy Pharkas probably does (at least there's a timed sequence at one point; you might end up saving with too little time left to solve it).

I'm sure I've forgotten some games, and I'm sure there's a site somewhere that has all this information laid out far more accurately, but that's what I can offer.

rayvio 02-21-2011 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurufinwe (Post 573043)
[*]Gabriel Knight: I think there's only one dead end in GK1, and you get ample warning; if you actually walk into that one, you're just dumb.
what was it? I don't remember anything like that and I often deliberately try to do dumb things (after saving of course) just to see what happens

Kurufinwe 02-21-2011 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayvio (Post 573047)
what was it? I don't remember anything like that and I often deliberately try to do dumb things (after saving of course) just to see what happens
Spoiler:
If you get into the hounfour without leaving the tracker and serpent rod for Mosely.

rayvio 02-22-2011 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurufinwe (Post 573048)
Spoiler:
If you get into the hounfour without leaving the tracker and serpent rod for Mosely.
I never thought of trying that, guess I just assumed Gabe would refuse. is the result funny? if so I may need to reinstall or at least look it up on youtube

Intense Degree 02-22-2011 02:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayvio (Post 573047)
what was it? I don't remember anything like that and I often deliberately try to do dumb things (after saving of course) just to see what happens
I think there is another one, although I might be mis-remembering...

Spoiler:
If you don't get the snake scale from the fortune teller's scarf before giving it back to her you can't convince Mosely to re-open the case.

rayvio 02-22-2011 02:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Degree (Post 573092)
I think there is another one, although I might be mis-remembering...

Spoiler:
If you don't get the snake scale from the fortune teller's scarf before giving it back to her you can't convince Mosely to re-open the case.
not sure but
Spoiler:
I think you'd only lose out on some points, since it's the scale from the museum that's needed

thejobloshow 02-22-2011 04:58 AM
THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW KING'S QUEST GAME?

That's wonderful news! Unlike the last two Leisure Suit Larry games, I hope they DON'T contact the original creator and just leave this one to Telltale.

Just to expand on Kurufinwe's post - you can't get stuck on Leisure Suit Larry 5 (provided you have your copyright protection) and was designed with the ability to even skip entire puzzles and women. Also, Phantasmagoria 2 and possibly 1 are without dead ends - but when are you going to play those, really?

Intense Degree 02-22-2011 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayvio (Post 573098)
not sure but
Spoiler:
I think you'd only lose out on some points, since it's the scale from the museum that's needed
To be honest I may be wrong about this but I thought...

Spoiler:
You needed the one from the museum to show it was the same as the one from the lake, and the one from the fortune teller to show that not all snake scales were the same.

You might be right it was just a point loss, but I seem to remember getting stuck there for ages until I reloaded and got the fortune teller snake scale. Could just be me being stupid though! ;)

Winterfury 02-22-2011 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thejobloshow (Post 573113)
Unlike the last two Leisure Suit Larry games, I hope they DON'T contact the original creator and just leave this one to Telltale.
You mean Al Lowe? I'm sorry, but where on earth did you get the idea that Mr. Lowe had anything to do with the last two LSL games? Unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am) he states somewhere on his page that he's especially proud that he had nothing to do with these abominations.

Luna Sevithiainen 02-22-2011 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurufinwe (Post 573043)
I'm not sure there actually are dead-ends in Longbow; at the very least situations preventing you from getting anything other than a bad ending.
Longbow has at least two dead ends.
The first one is really clear. You don't get the warning when you get into it, but pretty soon after you will know.

Of the second one I'm not sure how clear it is. I think that if you pay attention enough you will notice when you are at the dead end, and otherwise I think it is the common strategy to do the right action anyway. I know I never ran into it myself, nor has anyone I know, so I think the risk of getting it is not that large. (But I may be completely wrong here)

For both goes: the consequence of getting into the dead end occurs pretty soon after you failed to do what you were supposed to, so if you adhere to the golden rule of save early, save often, you will be fine. And although you will not be warned explicitly when you get into the dead end, once you've reached the dead end you will very likely know what you did wrong. Also, you will most likely not encounter those dead ends when you follow the direction that would make most sense (I think).

Agustin 02-22-2011 12:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfury (Post 573122)
You mean Al Lowe? I'm sorry, but where on earth did you get the idea that Mr. Lowe had anything to do with the last two LSL games? Unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am) he states somewhere on his page that he's especially proud that he had nothing to do with these abominations.
That's correct. If anything, I think the original creators SHOULD have a say in the new games. But Telltale did get in touch with Ron Gilbert for the new MI after all, so there's hope.

inm8#2 02-22-2011 01:53 PM
King's Quest without Roberta Williams' blessing is not King's Quest.

Josho 02-22-2011 04:37 PM
I think there's a difference between a dead end (which usually comes about because the designer neglected to realize that you could get to a point where you couldn't progress) and an ending that's less than optimal because you made one or more decisions that had consequences down the line. CONQUESTS OF CAMELOT, for instance, has NO dead ends of the former sort.

taterfyrings 02-22-2011 06:58 PM
Thanks a lot for all the answers guys! I decided to start with King's Quest 1, as it seems most Sierra-games does indeed have these problems, and King's Quest 1 after all is a fairly uncomplicated game to play if you just save all the time.

However, I have one question:

Spoiler:
I managed to get the key from the gnome without knowing his name, but what would happen if I actually did guess his name? And in that case, how would I know his name?

thejobloshow 02-22-2011 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfury (Post 573122)
You mean Al Lowe? I'm sorry, but where on earth did you get the idea that Mr. Lowe had anything to do with the last two LSL games? Unless I'm mistaken (and I don't think I am) he states somewhere on his page that he's especially proud that he had nothing to do with these abominations.
Nope, sorry. I meant that I WISH Al Lowe was contacted for the making of those two Larry games while I think Telltale can make a good King's Quest title without Roberta Williams.

I hear Roberta Williams has become somewhat of a recluse anyway and does not like reminiscing about that era of her life. I don't blame her to be honest considering what became of Sierra.

millenia 02-23-2011 03:44 AM
About Gabriel Knight 1:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intense Degree (Post 573120)
To be honest I may be wrong about this but I thought...

Spoiler:
You needed the one from the museum to show it was the same as the one from the lake, and the one from the fortune teller to show that not all snake scales were the same.

You might be right it was just a point loss, but I seem to remember getting stuck there for ages until I reloaded and got the fortune teller snake scale. Could just be me being stupid though! ;)
I'm pretty sure you can't get stuck with this. I progressed to day 5 or more without finding it and could continue the game after finally finding it from the walkthru. You can imagine it was a horrible thing to find from the walkthrus since it was "supposed" to be on day 1 already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayvio (Post 573085)
I never thought of trying that, guess I just assumed Gabe would refuse. is the result funny? if so I may need to reinstall or at least look it up on youtube
I don't remember the specifics but
Spoiler:
I think you just get unhappy ending where Gabriel dies at the ceremony. Probably the same if you don't use the medallion or don't try to save Malia - or something like that. It's been ages, can't remember if there's was just the regular dying screen or if it was an actual "unhappy ending". Anyway you can't reach the happy ending if you miss out placing the tracker. I think I managed to screw it up on my second playthrough - I was too busy to reach the end :)

Gonchi 02-23-2011 08:45 AM
About Gabriel Knight, if I recall correctly,

Spoiler:
if you don't set up the items for Mosely to follow Gabriel to the hounfour, during the ritual, Grace fights Dr. John and gets killed, and then Dr. John chokes Gabe. It's not an alternate ending, just a "you dun goofed" restore/quit/restart Death Screen.

Tiocfaidh 02-23-2011 09:45 AM
@taterfyrings

this thread by Lagomorph might be of interst to you

http://adventuregamers.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=28115

I hope more reviews will follow ...


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