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Old 01-23-2011, 12:59 PM   #41
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I though I'd also try & join this walkthrough as Longest Journey remains one of my absolute favourites. First played it back when it first came out in UK (guess that was 2000 according to the box). Then replayed it after Dreamfall cam out - so guess that was 4-5 years ago. So now seems like a good time to go through for a 3rd time! Only the Gabriel Knight series manage to compete with Longest Journey for me (yep, depth & detail of story are the most important elements of an adventure for me) & even they can't manage the overall quality of the voice acting - is there a single badly-acted character in the whole game? Only Dreamfall is up with Longest Journey on this aspect.

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Originally Posted by Fien View Post
How on earth do you manage to do that in only 2 hours?? Seriously. This is my second playthrough and it took me much longer. Impossible to skip dialogues once you started them and it takes ages to run across bridges, through parks, etcetera.
Agreed. Maybe even more importantly, even if it is possible to skip dialogue, why on earth would you choose to do it?!? The whole strength of the game is in the depth of the story together with the immersive nature of the Worlds created & (as I've mentioned) the voice acting. Those who do this, do you also skip dialogue in films & books? Guess everyone's different, but if you don't want lots of dialogue, don't play Longest Journey!

Have to admit, constantly running through the park did grate when I originally played it Now I know more or less what I'm doing, it makes things a lot easier

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Originally Posted by Fien View Post
Much to my surprise, I found it touching to be back in Venice again, long before the events of Dreamfall (which I played twice last year) and meeting a young April, Charlie, and Emma again.
Think we're going to be agreeing a lot Fien . Only thinkg was I wasn't surprised - I get "nostalgic" when I reread a really good book I haven't read in a long time, or film. And the couple of best AG's certainly belong at least in as high a category...and for involvement with characters, it's hard to top Longest Journey.

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Lots of stuff, details I'd forgotten all about, like the "mystery door". For me, it's still a game with a great story, and a couple of terrible puzzles.
Pretty good summary (again!), but considering its size, hard to avoid a couple of poor puzzles. Overall I'd rate them pretty to very good, but it's not the most important aspect of the game. Other thing I continue to find is how beautiful the game is. Sure, with improvements to technology, there are games with better "graphics" but the art direction for the locations is hard to top. I'm waiting for the UK release of Grey Matter, but am hoping that'll be the case with the locations in that too - I can live with poor character animation, but I do like well-designed locations.

One other thing: It does surprise me the number of people on this forum who haven't played TLJ - would have thought it was one of the first adventure players would play??
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:32 PM   #42
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Agreed. Maybe even more importantly, even if it is possible to skip dialogue, why on earth would you choose to do it?!?
Because there's a lot of superfluous dialogue. And there are other ways to implement the more important parts as you know. (Split the dialogues, keep those short. Character back stories can be included in the manual, or "shown" - not told - in the game, preferably when it is needed to advance the plot) .
I had forgotten the primitive character models that were pretty common in those days (someone on the web said that April looked like a zombie). Though it doesn't matter at all in a game like this.
Was indeed nice to be in Newport again (after the beautiful prologue). The idle people in the park. The clustered game world when the game starts, discovering the way to travel (subway).
Could check the easter egg in the "Border House" ( of course) now (flat screen). Noticed this time that an animation at the square took too long (it takes place before and after your bar visit - unlikely): the skaters getting arrested. I realize now too how strange the water/machine puzzle is outside the Border House (to get a rubber ducky?).
Didn't notice the first time that there was no fading between the settings. It runs smoothly (unlike a recent game like Gray Matter). Can't remember if the game had longer loading times when it was played on the computers we had when it came out. But overall of course: what a treat. Three new games on my comp - but I couldn't resist this playthrough.
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Old 01-23-2011, 11:16 PM   #43
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Gah! I REALLY need to check into this place more often! Install, install, install!! I'm gonna catch up!
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:11 AM   #44
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During the weekend I repaired my laptop and began TLJ, the game is as good as I remember.

I am thinking of replaying chapter One, maybe tomorrow. I realised I might have missed some of the dialogues - I choose to go to work at the cafe in the evening, for one. Besides I am also curious what would happen if I had replied differently on some other occasions (conversation with Zack comes to my mind).

mart - the LONGEST journey is the title of the game... Interpreting the title literally - it takes a looong time to complete and includes long dialogues and distances to walk....
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:43 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by KasiaD View Post
I choose to go to work at the cafe in the evening, for one. Besides I am also curious what would happen if I had replied differently
For those playing for the first time and have already completed Chapter 1:
Spoiler:
(Did you, i.e. April, agree to work the evening shift, or did you tell Stan you had other plans?) If possible, go back to a previous save game and choose the other response, then replay to the end of the chapter. What happens this time?
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:02 AM   #46
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Thanks, zane and harald. I should have turned on "Enable Time Skip" in the game settings. And of course peeked at the manual, or just the readme file, which has all the shortcuts.

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Originally Posted by DaveyB View Post
Think we're going to be agreeing a lot Fien .
Hey, Davey is back! Good to read you again. Did you happen to drop in at the right moment or have you been lurking all this time? Yeah, we're going to do a lot of agreeing. But I'm sure we'll also find things to disagree on, just like last time.

Mart:
Quote:
Because there's a lot of superfluous dialogue. And there are other ways to implement the more important parts as you know. (Split the dialogues, keep those short. Character back stories can be included in the manual, or "shown" - not told - in the game, preferably when it is needed to advance the plot) .
Oh no, please no back stories in the manual for me. They can be fun, but not in a game like TLE. Gradually getting to know the characters and their relations is an important part of the immersive experience.
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:01 AM   #47
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I can't wait to move onto Chapter 2; it's such an engrossing game when it gets going.

Yeah, the character models haven't aged very well, but the static backgrounds still look very good and the characters have plenty of background and are believable thanks to the voice acting. I find a lot of the dialogue to be enjoyable to listen to.
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:16 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mart View Post
Because there's a lot of superfluous dialogue.
There was definitely a lot of dialogue with Fiona, Charlie and Emma but I didn't mind. I'm not sure how else they could have set up the relationships. I know I wouldn't have read it if it was in the manual.

A few years ago I played the first hour or so but never went back to it. Even after more than an hour you've really got no plot yet and no puzzles. You're just told to go work on your art at the studio.

I'm glad I stuck with it this time. I appreciate all the depth to the characters and I'm looking forward to seeing where the story goes. We still really only had one very minor puzzle though (getting money for the subway).

I'm also impressed with how well the game holds up. I can tolerate the player models, the backgrounds are beautiful and the voice acting is really well done.

Near the end of the chapter
Spoiler:
I told Stan I wouldn't work. After talking to Cortez at the exhibit, I went back home and watched a movie with Fiona. The chapter ended with a cutscene of the show on the TV becoming reality, etc.
Does the chapter end differently if you make different choices?
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:51 AM   #49
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oh yeah it does:
Spoiler:
I told stan id work, so it ended with a scene in the cafe where a creature comes out of the jukebox and dances around.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:43 AM   #50
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There was definitely a lot of dialogue with Fiona, Charlie and Emma but I didn't mind. I'm not sure how else they could have set up the relationships. I know I wouldn't have read it if it was in the manual.
It - putting it in the manual - was just an example of designing things differently. If the character back stories (or part of these) are put into the manual, a player can skip those if she/he isn't interested in the back stories. It's better that way than use the Esc-key to speed up the dialogues, as that "breaks the wall" I think.

Sure you know how to set up the relationships differently! For example, only give information when it is needed, so not all at once (about Mickey, Emma, Zack, Fiona etc.), but after a meeting with Emma etc. But there are other ways (nice exercise for us, if we weren't playing the game).

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Oh no, please no back stories in the manual for me. They can be fun, but not in a game like TLE. Gradually getting to know the characters and their relations is an important part of the immersive experience.
I agree, but that's one of the examples I mentioned I believe (splitting it up, doing it gradually). It's simply bad design in my - subjective - eyes, a dialogue right after the game has started that takes around 15 MINUTES or so (!!). I know it's not a big deal and that some don't mind at all, and KasiaD pointed out that the name of the game is the LONGEST journey afterall :-). But I am always interested how designers solve these kind of problems (dealing with/using exposition scenes). And I must admit I stopped playing some games that were enormously "talkative."

But though of some interest I think as a design issue, this unimportant comment just melts away because of the grandeur of the game. The alternative ending of the chapter Zane just mentioned is a perfect example of the imagination and talent of the designers. I think it was maginficent (the bewilderment of the Banda!!!).
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:48 AM   #51
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We still really only had one very minor puzzle though (getting money for the subway).
One puzzle plus a couple of things (one big puzzle really) you can do either in chapter one or in chapter two.

Quote:
Near the end of the chapter
Spoiler:
I told Stan I wouldn't work. After talking to Cortez at the exhibit, I went back home and watched a movie with Fiona. The chapter ended with a cutscene of the show on the TV becoming reality, etc.
Does the chapter end differently if you make different choices?
Yes and no. The phenomenon takes a different form, with different people present. But it's the same phenomenon and your choice doesn't change the story. Same goes for other minor choices, like will you go out with Zack? It's amusing to see the different responses, but the end result is the same.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:51 PM   #52
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Hey, Davey is back! Good to read you again.
Thanks Fien

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Did you happen to drop in at the right moment or have you been lurking all this time?
Bit of both . I drop by on fairly regular occasions, but not so often, nor with enough time to post anything myself...unless there's a really good reason . Did spot the info from you & a couple of other re "The Last Express" download a week or so ago, so thanks for that! I'll let oyu know what I think of it when I have time to play it - but that won't be for a time yet. We've just started on the German version of "Edna Bricht Aus"...


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Originally Posted by Fien View Post
But I'm sure we'll also find things to disagree on, just like last time.
Oh, no doubt


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fien View Post
Mart:


Oh no, please no back stories in the manual for me. They can be fun, but not in a game like TLE. Gradually getting to know the characters and their relations is an important part of the immersive experience.
For now, though, guess we're still agreeing . I want to form my own opinion about characters, not have a manual tell me what to think. For me, like with a good book, subplots & getting to know other characters (not just centreing on the main character or the "action" are very important.

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I agree, but that's one of the examples I mentioned I believe (splitting it up, doing it gradually). It's simply bad design in my - subjective - eyes, a dialogue right after the game has started that takes around 15 MINUTES or so (!!). I know it's not a big deal and that some don't mind at all, and KasiaD pointed out that the name of the game is the LONGEST journey afterall :-). But I am always interested how designers solve these kind of problems (dealing with/using exposition scenes). And I must admit I stopped playing some games that were enormously "talkative."
As you say though, it's a subjective thing. For some of us, it's not that we "don't mind" a lot of dialogue early on, we like it! Personally a book (and similarly game, or film, or TV production) that can successfully use a lot of dialogue to draw me into the story/characters/world is, for me, a positive . Of course that word "successfully" is very important - you're totally right that it falls flat if you've no interest in the dialogue whatsoever!
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:54 PM   #53
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I love the slight differences you can pick, that gives you a slightly different cutscene, but then leads the story right back to where you need to go. I find it interesting to try all the different types, like working or not and what to do about Zac later.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:34 PM   #54
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Woo, I caught up! And after numerous, numerous attempts at starting this game before, finishing chapter 1 is officially the farthest I've been in the game! Yay!

It's funny, this suggestion of too much dialogue. I personally like having it there, since it is always largely optional, but I can understand people not wanting to miss out on anything while also being a little bored. A lot of it comes across like exposition which is a shame, I think there are more subtle ways of addressing some of the discussions about characters and such. And with less dribble, it's true. They do dribble on a bit.

But I'm being picky! I'm really enjoying the world so far, and liking all the characters. I really love those moments that branch a game like that, even if it is a subtle branching. Looking forward to seeing more of Cortez and his little secrets...

A big thank you by the way to whoever suggested the .ini edit, worked like a charm!
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:27 AM   #55
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I tried the other ending of Chapter 1, it was pretty cool that it still ends up the same really. I just assumed that no matter what dialogue you picked, you ended up at the same place. Like the dialogue with the pay... whichever you selected, it played out the same way in the end.
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:57 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunkyo View Post
For those playing for the first time and have already completed Chapter 1:
Spoiler:
(Did you, i.e. April, agree to work the evening shift, or did you tell Stan you had other plans?) If possible, go back to a previous save game and choose the other response, then replay to the end of the chapter. What happens this time?
Well,

Spoiler:
In case you choose not to work, you get to meet Mickey, talk to her a bit, and watch a movie with her and Fiona. Later you are witness to a strange phenomenon when the forest comes out of the screen. Next day there is an opportunity to talk about this with Charlie.
If you work, you see a creature appear in the Fringe and speak about it with Fiona in the morning.
From those two options, I found talking to Charlie more interesting. Besides, why bother working if you don't have to
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:11 AM   #57
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So, here are my two cents on the first chapter.

The most obvious point for me is that this game is full of "duality" from the beginning to the end:

The old lady decides to tell a true story instead of a fairy tale.

In the prologue the dragon is talking about past and future and other contraries connected with this one.

The prologue and chapter 1 represent dream and reality.

Fiona tells us that the Border House represents not also the border between Newport (big town) and Venice (village), but also the line between science and art.

Cortez is talking about his preference of black-and-white films (some sort of more contrast in duality?)
When April and Cortez talk about art in the gallery, they are talking about truth and illusion.
(Btw. I really enjoyed this discussion about art – great!)

Even when you click on April you can get a very superficial comment (is something wrong with my hair, do I have a pimple?) or a more profound observation (being aware of myself all the time, irritates me).
(I’m translating from the German version, so please accept my apologies if I didn’t get it right).

Maybe I am interpreting a bit too much, but in my opinion the whole game is playing with this idea of duality and a possible connection
Spoiler:
resp. necessary balance
between the two extremes (April is afraid that her dreams could be real…).

I tend to assume that nothing in this game was created just by accident, so: why on earth does April sleep in her shoes???
(Does she already have some kind of feeling that her dreams are likely to be more than that?)

For the people who already know TLJ and Dreamfall:
Spoiler:
This forest spirit says that in opposite to humans his kind is willing to accept its fortune.
In my opinion April shows us how true it is, that people have problems with this...


Sorry, for getting lost in too much interpretation (in a definitely not really “elegant” English).
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:20 AM   #58
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Nice interpretation, your managed to translate it to English pretty well!

Oh, and in English version April says: "I feel like someone is constantly watching me, (that's) so irritating!"

The art discussion was really well put
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:50 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sughly View Post
And after numerous, numerous attempts at starting this game before, finishing chapter 1 is officially the farthest I've been in the game!
As I said, it's the same for me. Last time I either got bored or wasn't in the mood for a game like this. This time I can't wait to get back to it. All this discussion is definitely helping so let's hope we all stick with it.

I'm sure I'll find out tonight, but I'm most looking forward to
Spoiler:
seeing if other characters in the game saw the craziness at the end of chapter 1. I was expecting that it would be only April that would see that stuff, but it certainly looked like Fiona and Mickey saw it too. I wasn't sure if that was part of the dream though and I figured April would have wanted to talk to Fiona about it before going to bed.


Let's all get started with the next chapter and do your best to be done before February 1.

Chapter 2: Through the Looking Glass
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:26 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zane View Post
oh yeah it does:
Spoiler:
I told stan id work, so it ended with a scene in the cafe where a creature comes out of the jukebox and dances around.
Cool. I never knew that. Everytime I've played I've always refused to work for Stan because he's such an arse.
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