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Old 01-12-2011, 01:11 PM   #41
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People can't seem to put their finger on what made GK3 awesome, but guess what? I do. It was because it gave you full control over the camera, allowing you to investigate, poke, prod the environment as if you were actually their, without limitations of bodily movement. So, naturally your brain wasn't limited to unusual movement.

It felt a lot like Tex Murphy's last three games.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:17 PM   #42
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Wow...thanks for the analogy. I'm not trying to pick on Telltale here but there's something about their games that has felt fundamentally broken to me. They're probably the only studio who's work I want to enjoy, but simply can't...and this is exactly why. I could never quite describe it before but your analogy makes perfect sense.
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I don't enjoy Telltale's games for the same reason. In the other hand... GK3's engine gave me the sensation of immersion that I couldn't find in other adventures.
I actually just played Sam & Max S3E1 last night (for free with Playstation Plus, definitely worth a 3 month subscription). Parts of it actually are in full 3D, but only parts, and it's only when you switch to first-person mode. They generally keep the camera basically fixed either for "cinematic"/gameplay reasons or programming difficulties I guess.

The game was much better than I expected...I really like the Twilight Zone/Rod Serling presentation. My other big complaint about Telltale games though is the dialogue...there's too much of it and it sometimes gets boring.

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People can't seem to put their finger on what made GK3 awesome, but guess what? I do. It was because it gave you full control over the camera, allowing you to investigate, poke, prod the environment as if you were actually their, without limitations of bodily movement. So, naturally your brain wasn't limited to unusual movement.

It felt a lot like Tex Murphy's last three games.
That Tex Murphy interface is so clunky, but it works. I like how you're only in that mode for relatively small segments...wandering around huge environments like that would get tiresome (unless the controls were upgraded), and it sometimes does anyway. They did a really good job with those games with the combination of exploration, dialogue, FMV, etc. As I said above, dialogue often bothers me a lot, but it's fine in this case. If you think about it - when you ask somebody about a topic in the Tex games, their response is generally quite short even if they have good info for you. What annoys me is when the Telltale games have long responses and banter attempting to be funny every time you click a new option.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:27 PM   #43
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Parts of it actually are in full 3D, but only parts, and it's only when you switch to first-person mode. They generally keep the camera basically fixed either for "cinematic"/gameplay reasons or programming difficulties I guess.
All the Telltale games that run on that engine (Sam & Max, Tales, Back to the Future and so on) are full 3D. The thing is, the camera is in fixed locations, but that doesn't mean that the world itself isn't fully rendered in 3D.
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Old 01-15-2011, 01:49 PM   #44
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I'd love to see the game with new graphics.. even lower-budget 2D ones. I didn't mind the 'camera' controls, per se (in fact, I had a lot of fun exploring 'weird' places with the camera); the world of GK3 was just.. ugly and depressing. And not 'depressing in a cool/horrific way,' just plain depressing.

Is it true they used the Quake 2 graphics engine, hence the sort of 'brown' look to everything? (I remember being depressed by Rennes-le-Chateau in particular.. it was so *brown*, and it was inhabited seemingly by a total of five[-ish] [gray] zombies who never walked around town, gathered in groups of two or more, etc. - just stayed in their appointed chairs in their appointed buildings.)

As weird as this may sound, I actually had to stop playing because the graphics rubbed me the wrong way to such a great extent. (And I'm usually one who will put up with any sort of graphics, no matter how 'bad'/dated/whatever, since I'm more of a story/characters/story-related-puzzles sort of gamer.. I also often like 'weird' graphics that others don't care for. )

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Old 01-15-2011, 02:10 PM   #45
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Is it true they used the Quake 2 graphics engine, hence the sort of 'brown' look to everything? (I remember being depressed by Rennes-le-Chateau in particular.. it was so *brown*, and it was inhabited seemingly by a total of five[-ish] [gray] zombies who never walked around town, gathered in groups of two or more, etc. - just stayed in their appointed chairs in their appointed buildings.)
From your description it seems like your graphic card couldn't take more than 8bit colors in 3D games. If so, then no wonder they looked depressing. Neither GK3 nor Quake 2 were *brown*. Quake 2 was flashy green, red, and yellow.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:23 PM   #46
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From your description it seems like your graphic card couldn't take more than 8bit colors in 3D games. If so, then no wonder they looked depressing. Neither GK3 nor Quake 2 were *brown*. Quake 2 was flashy green, red, and yellow.
Or it might have something to do with my own eyes (or aesthetic preferences).. nearly all 3D games - especially the earlier ones - have a sort of muddy gray/brown look to them from my perspective. The screenshots of GK3 posted earlier in this thread were exactly what it looked like on my (very good for its time, IRRC ) graphics card.
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Old 01-15-2011, 08:33 PM   #47
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I'd love to see the game with new graphics.. even lower-budget 2D ones. I didn't mind the 'camera' controls, per se (in fact, I had a lot of fun exploring 'weird' places with the camera); the world of GK3 was just.. ugly and depressing. And not 'depressing in a cool/horrific way,' just plain depressing.

Is it true they used the Quake 2 graphics engine, hence the sort of 'brown' look to everything? (I remember being depressed by Rennes-le-Chateau in particular.. it was so *brown*, and it was inhabited seemingly by a total of five[-ish] [gray] zombies who never walked around town, gathered in groups of two or more, etc. - just stayed in their appointed chairs in their appointed buildings.)

As weird as this may sound, I actually had to stop playing because the graphics rubbed me the wrong way to such a great extent. (And I'm usually one who will put up with any sort of graphics, no matter how 'bad'/dated/whatever, since I'm more of a story/characters/story-related-puzzles sort of gamer.. I also often like 'weird' graphics that others don't care for. )
No, I think they made their own engine. There's a great old article here from one of the head guys on the project:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...a_studios_.php
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Old 01-16-2011, 02:32 AM   #48
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Or it might have something to do with my own eyes (or aesthetic preferences).. nearly all 3D games - especially the earlier ones - have a sort of muddy gray/brown look to them from my perspective. The screenshots of GK3 posted earlier in this thread were exactly what it looked like on my (very good for its time, IRRC ) graphics card.
Well, ok. But the muddy, murky brown look I usually atribute to earlier 3D games like Quake 1 and Azrael's Tear. Personally, I actually quite like it.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:46 AM   #49
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Well, ok. But the muddy, murky brown look I usually atribute to earlier 3D games like Quake 1 and Azrael's Tear. Personally, I actually quite like it.
Yeah, but its sad to hear so many people not understand that these color schemes attribute to artistic direction. Grrrr, I don't know how many times I want to punch someone that says "That game littles as gray and lame as Gears of War". Or even the whole "Brown" scheme. I guess people expected rainbows in a war torn desert environment. lol But DAMN.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:44 AM   #50
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I guess people expected rainbows in a war torn desert environment.
Meteorologically speaking, the appearance of rainbows is not influenced by socio-political events such as war or anthropic population density.

The choice of desaturated colours in videogames is a long-debated one, and is only partly due to artistic choices! There are significant technical limitations in contemporary light rendering techniques.
This article specifically mentions Gears of War after the technical preamble, and implies that the choice of color palette in the game was "guided" by such limitations.
TvTropes also has something to say on the matter, and also provides an interesting visual example.
Apparently reality is brown!

Anyway, besides my silly quip about rainbows, I do realize that one couldn't expect a game set in a demolished city to feature bright pastel clours (and tropers themselves seem to agree with us). My point is simply that there are also technical limitations behind the issue, and that artistical choices may be strongly influenced by them. Besides, no one forced Epic to set the game in a ruined city... it would make more sense to me that the choice of environment was influenced by technical issues, rather than the other way round.

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Old 01-16-2011, 01:47 PM   #51
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All the Telltale games that run on that engine (Sam & Max, Tales, Back to the Future and so on) are full 3D. The thing is, the camera is in fixed locations, but that doesn't mean that the world itself isn't fully rendered in 3D.
Yea I know, but because of the fixed camera it might as well be 2.5D - whether or not the whole world is rendered doesn't matter if they're not letting you look at it. I've been playing Sam & Max Season 3 (free on Playstation Plus!) and it actually does often show you the entire room 360, just with fixed camera angles. In one particular huge room in Episode 2, it really would have been nice to have a traditional 3D rotatable camera. I feel like it would have helped the immersion, but I don't know for sure.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:49 PM   #52
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Meteorogically speaking, the appearance of rainbows is not influenced by socio-political events such as war or anthropic population density.

The choice of desaturated colours in videogames is a long-debated one, and is only partly due to artistic choices! There are significant technical limitations in contemporary light rendering techniques.
This article specifically mentions Gears of War after the technical preamble, and implies that the choice of color palette in the game was "guided" by such limitations.
TvTropes also has something to say on the matter, and also provides an interesting visual example.
Apparently reality is brown!

Anyway, besides my silly quip about rainbows, I do realize that one couldn't expect a game set in a demolished city to feature bright pastel clours (and tropers themselves seem to agree with us). My point is simply that there are also technical limitations behind the issue, and that artistical choices may be strongly influenced by them. Besides, no one forced Epic to set the game in a ruined city... it would make more sense to me that the choice of environment was influenced by technical issues, rather than the other way round.
Its like making a game that is purposely black and white, then complain about how it should have been in color.

I digress though, did I not say its Artistic Direction? lol
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:15 AM   #53
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GK should have stick with 2D back then.
Grim Fandango and Escape from Monkey Island still look good even today because of their cartoon look.
GK won't possibly fit within these styles.
Could've pulled it off visually, but jumped on the 3D bandwagon instead.
I agree that it's all about artistic direction.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:55 AM   #54
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Could've pulled it off visually, but jumped on the 3D bandwagon instead.
I agree that it's all about artistic direction.
You mean absence of artistic direction
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Old 01-19-2011, 01:52 PM   #55
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You mean absence of artistic direction
lol yeah. Its lack of visual harmony kind of blows the whole "art direction" thing.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:02 PM   #56
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You mean absence of artistic direction
lmao .. Bingo!
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:53 AM   #57
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i absolutely love GK3. i've replayed it dozens of times. i've always loved the engine and the interface, and the way you can zoom the camera around the environment rather than wait for the character to walk. the story is just on an entirely different level than other AGs.

like someone else said, GK3 should've been the first of a new era of AGs. instead it seemed like the last of the classics, and the genre devolved into a niche after that, remaking the same 2D format into the ground.

i've always thought a proper remake of GK3 would be out of this world good. they should make it for the iPhone, maybe it'd connect to a new audience.

please please please somebody do it.

of course, GK4 would be the best possible news. what is wrong with the world that such a series would be discontinued?
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