[aaroncarney]

I enjoyed Gabriel Knight 3 more than the first one if im honest. The story and the puzzles were amazing! I know the whole camera thing wasn't everyones cup of tea but I felt that, along with the puzzles, really made you feel involved in the game. The graphics weren't great but it was 11/12 years ago, and I can't really think of any other adventure game at that time in full 3d that looked any better. I'd love to see a GK3 with an update of graphics, but I honestly think it doesn't really need it. It was all about the story/characters/puzzles for me.

[Vel]

Well come on, GK 3 was made in the late 90s! It has much better graphics than, say, Half life. And the indoor scenes are especially detailed. Its looks, and especially character models could have been better, but still, it is not as visually repulsive as most of you think.

[aaroncarney]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

To be honest I'm much more interested in the concept of a revamped Gray Matter at this point - it had a great potential to be worth of the classic GKs.

I agree. Gray Matter COULD have been very good. It's 12 years old and imo GK3 is LOADS better. If anything needs a revamp it's Gray Matter. Cutscenes, bleh. Sam's voice! BLEH.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by aaroncarney

I agree. Gray Matter COULD have been very good. It's 12 years old and imo GK3 is LOADS better. If anything needs a revamp it's Gray Matter. Cutscenes, bleh. Sam's voice! BLEH.

To be clear I really enjoyed Gray Matter, in particular its story and central concepts - I just feel it could benefit so much from better interface (especially a reinvented magic trick interface), better character portraits, a far greater number and better written hotspot comments etc.

GK3 feels much more "finished" and polished in comparison.

[Roper Klacks]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

GK3 feels much more "finished" and polished in comparison.

I'm sorry, i adore GK3, but that game is far, far away from polished, it was, and it is a technic nightmare, more than Gray Matter.

[Kazmajik]

Originally Posted by Vel

Well come on, GK 3 was made in the late 90s! It has much better graphics than, say, Half life. And the indoor scenes are especially detailed. Its looks, and especially character models could have been better, but still, it is not as visually repulsive as most of you think.

I agree with you completely. I just played it again a couple weeks ago, and enjoyed it just as much as I did 10 years ago. Half-life's graphics weren't any better at all, but I don't hold that against it either.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by Roper Klacks

I'm sorry, i adore GK3, but that game is far, far away from polished, it was, and it is a technic nightmare, more than Gray Matter.

GK3 was indeed a nightmare to get made - get the engine to work to be precise.

However, you've got to be impressed how the interface and controls are designed and how they feel in practice. Similarly, the sound work and voice work are of the highest possible caliber. And the game offers you an incredible amount of well-written comments from the main characters about every possible hotspot, which greatly enhances the playing experience.

All of these elements are missing in Gray Matter.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Kazmajik

I agree with you completely. I just played it again a couple weeks ago, and enjoyed it just as much as I did 10 years ago. Half-life's graphics weren't any better at all, but I don't hold that against it either.

Actually I disagree. The graphics were HORRIBLE at the time. haha


Anyways, in college before I dropped out for a gaming job. I made a 3d model of Gabriel Knight (the first story arc), and got it working in game with a modified GK3 game style. It turned out really good. Hopefully I can make a prototype someday.

[Thorn]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Actually I disagree. The graphics were HORRIBLE at the time. haha


Anyways, in college before I dropped out for a gaming job. I made a 3d model of Gabriel Knight (the first story arc), and got it working in game with a modified GK3 game style. It turned out really good. Hopefully I can make a prototype someday.

Do you have a picture? *curious* I'd LOVE to see a good version of a Gabriel in 3D!

[ZeframCochrane]

Originally Posted by Monolith

haha

I think that the issue of whether or not the graphics of GK3 were good at the time or not is, at worst, a subjective one. Let's consider end-90s graphics:

Here's Half-Life on GoldSrc:


And here's GK3's Sheep:




Personally, I don't see much superiority. In both cases I see end-90s textures and end-90s polygons. If anything, I can commend Valve for choosing to avoig long-haired characters. If Dr. Kleiner had had long hair (as opposed to his signature baldness) he would've been stuck with the same kind of weird blocky hair than our hero Gabriel Knight.
Note that whether or not HL is a better game than GK3 is a whole other point.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by ZeframCochrane

I think that the issue of whether or not the graphics of GK3 were good at the time or not is, at worst, a subjective one. Let's consider end-90s graphics:

Here's Half-Life on GoldSrc:


And here's GK3's Sheep:




Personally, I don't see much superiority. In both cases I see end-90s textures and end-90s polygons. If anything, I can commend Valve for choosing to avoig long-haired characters. If Dr. Kleiner had had long hair (as opposed to his signature baldness) he would've been stuck with the same kind of weird blocky hair than our hero Gabriel Knight.
Note that whether or not HL is a better game than GK3 is a whole other point.

Exactly my point. It was way too soon for GK3 to tackle 3d graphics. It doesn't matter what engine they used. Its the sort of graphical harmony and polish that makes a game good.


@Thorn: I'll try to see if I can get ahold of my old hard drive.

[ZeframCochrane]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Exactly my point.

I apologize, I thought your point was that the graphics were scarce for the time.
I only now understand you meant that they were scarce for an adventure game of the time. I'm pretty sure we can agree that end-90s graphics were good enough to bring about perfectly good FPS games, though. Or perhaps back in '99 you didn't like HL because you considered its graphics to be subpar?

With no point of reference, people are usually pretty content with the current status of development. Back in '99, I had never seen Crysis-quality graphics. So I was content with HL-quality. Of course, had GK3 had DooM-quality graphics, well in that cas I wouldn't have been happy at all.
My point is that only relative comparisons of contemporary games retain a certain objectivity. Therefore instead of saying "GK3's 3D graphics were AWESOME", I will limit myself to "considering that GK3's 3D graphics were en-par to what the times had to offer, and that therefore the game's developers did the best they could with the 3D tools they had, GK3 turned out to be a pretty awesome game".

[Venkman]

Has there been a better full-3D adventure game since? Telltale doesn't count because their worlds are like half-rendered sitcom sets (and I wouldn't consider their games better anyway).

[Captain Blondebeard]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Has there been a better full-3D adventure game since? Telltale doesn't count because their worlds are like half-rendered sitcom sets (and I wouldn't consider their games better anyway).

I'm pretty sure Grim Fandango came out in 98 so I think that was after Gabriels Knight's release date.

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by Captain Blondebeard

I'm pretty sure Grim Fandango came out in 98 so I think that was after Gabriels Knight's release date.

GK3 is late '99. Grim Fandango isn't really 3D either...2D sets no?

[Roper Klacks]

Grim Fandango was 2.5D.
Dreamfall was fully in 3D and it was ok.

[millenia]

GK3 isn't really that bad at all. I remember thinking back in the day that the characters weren't very pretty but overall I liked the 3D approach, it was done pretty well for an adventure game. And I am not a 3D fan or anything.

Now looking at that pic I'm not thinking ugly or awkward, I'm thinking I want to replay the game.

[Lupin The Third]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Has there been a better full-3D adventure game since? Telltale doesn't count because their worlds are like half-rendered sitcom sets (and I wouldn't consider their games better anyway).

Wow...thanks for the analogy. I'm not trying to pick on Telltale here but there's something about their games that has felt fundamentally broken to me. They're probably the only studio who's work I want to enjoy, but simply can't...and this is exactly why. I could never quite describe it before but your analogy makes perfect sense.

[River]

I don't enjoy Telltale's games for the same reason. In the other hand... GK3's engine gave me the sensation of immersion that I couldn't find in other adventures.

[Ascovel]

The graphics were quite good for the time. Because of reduced number of characters and no physics engine a 3D adventure game of those times could afford better textures and more complex models than a FPS game could.

GK3 might have been actually the first 3D game ever to have facial expressions more complex than opened/closed mouth!

But the graphics quality was very inconsistent throughout (e.g. Mosley's short arms and Madeline's awful walking animations!).