[Ninja Dodo]

I think you guys might find this interesting:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/3..._Adventure.php

[Ninja Dodo]

To give a little more detail: CMP has hired a historian to document the 25-year history of the Game Developers Conference and he's publishing it as he goes along. This particular entry is about the recording of a 1998 roundtable on the perceived demise of the Adventure genre (around the time Riven was new).

Obviously this is an all too familiar discussion for this forum, but it's interesting to hear how developers thought the genre was doing at the time and what they saw as solutions to bring it back...

[direct link] (if you want to skip the description and go straight to the audio)

[Ascovel]

The beginning speech by Steve Meretzky was great, with a lot interesting information and opinions. Sadly it quickly goes downhill from there and the rest is dominated by bitter expressions of discontent over adventure game sales. But I do understand some of these developers were really upset.

[diego]

Funny how decade after the assumption that the genre is dead we have Gray Matter as something new and good (and every other adventure game) which is basically the same thing as Monkey Island 1. Exactly like Call of Duty is the same thing as Doom 1, regardless of the fact that Call of Duty is mainstream and sells much better. But video games are not more mainstream compared to movies and music then they were 10 and 20 years ago. They are even less mainstream because they are in the process of being more independent of the more popular media. So, adventure games will "die" when every other genre "dies", or at least when the last man with the knowledge of making of adventure games refuses to play his own game.

But of course, "death" of adventure games could mean just that adventure games are not "jet-set" of the gaming industry like they used to be, which is a social phenomena, just like the growing of fast Internet, downloadable games and "casualisation". Roberta Williams, regarding King's Quest 8 said:

"Adventure games "as we know it" are dead. What does that mean? Does that mean "text" adventure games with text input; story, puzzles, no art, no animation, no music, no sound, no spoken dialog? Does that mean "picture book" adventure games with more advanced text input; story, puzzles, no animation, no music, no sound, no spoken dialog? Does that mean "2D worlds with cut screen shots" with icon bar input; story, puzzles, limited animation, limited music, limited sound, no spoken dialog? Does that mean "2D worlds with cut screen shots and limited short 'cartoons' or 'movies' with icon bar input; story, puzzles, better animation, better music, better sound, limited spoken dialog? Does that mean "2D worlds with lots more cut screen shots and more short 'cartoons/movies' with 'point and click' input; better story, easier puzzles, great animation, great music, great sound, lots of spoken dialog? Do you see a trend here in all of this?"

in this interview

[Ninja Dodo]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

Sadly it quickly goes downhill from there and the rest is dominated by bitter expressions of discontent over adventure game sales.

There's some interesting points about where the genre could go in between the complaining though. Well, historically interesting, mostly. It's also kinda neat there was a guy from Looking Glass there. Imagine if they were still around and making adventure games, of all things.

What would that look like?

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by diego

Funny how decade after the assumption that the genre is dead we have Gray Matter as something new and good (and every other adventure game) which is basically the same thing as Monkey Island 1. Exactly like Call of Duty is the same thing as Doom 1, regardless of the fact that Call of Duty is mainstream and sells much better. But video games are not more mainstream compared to movies and music then they were 10 and 20 years ago. They are even less mainstream because they are in the process of being more independent of the more popular media. So, adventure games will "die" when every other genre "dies", or at least when the last man with the knowledge of making of adventure games refuses to play his own game.

Call of Duty is not the same as Doom 1. I don't know about Gray Matter, but Telltale's Monkey Island games for example are nearly identical to Monkey Island 1 except for some half-assed 3D graphics, less puzzles, and more sitting around listening to dialogue. Adventure games have arguably devolved.

[rngrfreund]

But video games are not more mainstream compared to movies and music then they were 10 and 20 years ago. They are even less mainstream because they are in the process of being more independent of the more popular media.

I don't think I agree. Video games in the past 10 years have created the mainstream, blockbuster releases that eclipse movie, music, and book sales. Unfortunately, those biggies have been predominately FPS. I'm sure game production heads are still sitting around tables dissing Adventure games because they don't bring in the loot.

[zane]

yeah, videogames are more mainstream now than they ever have been before. Games target all age groups and the dream of the console being a "family entertainment system" is really a reality. We just also have more isolated sub-cultures in gaming than ever before (Or at least as much as ever.) And its impossible to predict when something from the so-called fringe is going to be deemed as mainstream. The phoenix wright series is a good example. If you had taken that concept to a table of industry people in 2005, they woudlv scoffed at the idea of it ever being profitable in the us, let alone anywhere. But the amount of demand it received surprised everyone, and it goes to show the cyclical nature of this and that this genre will never really "die".

[Burns11]

Originally Posted by zane

The phoenix wright series is a good example. If you had taken that concept to a table of industry people in 2005, they woudlv scoffed at the idea of it ever being profitable in the us, let alone anywhere.

The Ace Attorney series started in 2001 and sold pretty well in Japan.

As far as the audio file goes, I find it fascinating that so many of these comments you now see as prophetic. Migrating to browser games, RPG, action-adventure, etc.

One sad note was Travis Williams, executive producer from ASC of Sanitarium saying "I could care less how much it sells because I know I made a good game". Dreamforge barely got another game out the door before shuttering and Travis was no longer with ASC after Sanitarium.

[zane]

ohhh i know, im just talking about when it was brought over, and despite what success it had in japan, people still wouldnt have believed it would get as popular as it has.

[Burns11]

I would argue it's not really that popular here. The first game was a bit of a phenomenon here, mostly because sales were slow but gained steam based on word of mouth, and it is the biggest seller in the series, but even that game didn't set the charts on fire. Sales have been steadily declining with each release, with the most recent being very average. No doubt Capcom is (mostly) happy, it's making money off of the low development cost.

There are pockets of a cult following, especially online, but overall I'd find it hard to call the game popular in the grand scheme.

[AdrianWerner]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Call of Duty is not the same as Doom 1. I don't know about Gray Matter, but Telltale's Monkey Island games for example are nearly identical to Monkey Island 1 except for some half-assed 3D graphics, less puzzles, and more sitting around listening to dialogue. Adventure games have arguably devolved.

Well...you have to rember that when Doom 1 was out FPSes were only beggining. While by the time adventure games hit Monkey Island 1 they already had over a decade of contant evolution.
Compare modern FPSes to ones from 5 years ago and older and you will see that not only they didn't evolve, but they also devolved.

Genre is always improving fast after it's born. The only difference is that adventure games hit the peak of their evolution about a decade before FPSes did.