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Old 12-17-2010, 03:47 PM   #201
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Okay, managed to get one ending
Spoiler:
I set off the alarm so sleeping beauty got out but the bar went up in flames

but it seems I have skipped a lot. Never got the Roach and Roach on Locket texts Fien posted. Didn't see Suki or the eyes. Hmmmm. Where did I go wrong?
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:03 PM   #202
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Seems you didn't
Spoiler:
fly with the moth?

Or you never
Spoiler:
crawled from the second table in Rogers room?

You can crawl
Spoiler:
to the bottom and to the wall.

Perhaps you didn't
Spoiler:
affright the cat?

I finshed friday the game with the best ending. I hate to have time pressure and rush from place to place. But i did it.
So now ist's over.
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:51 PM   #203
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Did fly with the butterfly, but went straight to the shower from there. Now when I load a save game from just after I switched on the fax, the butterfly isn't there on the pencil. Hmmmm.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:01 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolloDiablo View Post
Okay, managed to get one ending
Spoiler:
I set off the alarm so sleeping beauty got out but the bar went up in flames

but it seems I have skipped a lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
Seems you didn't
Spoiler:
fly with the moth?
That's not possible -
Spoiler:
to start the end game without flying the moth/butterfly, that is.
You can't have
Spoiler:
a cigarette butt in the toilet
until you start the end game and the end game is started when
Spoiler:
you enter the right grate (the one with a whirling fan in it you have to stop), and that grate is in the den and you can get to the den only by flying the moth/butterfly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PolloDiablo View Post
Did fly with the butterfly, but went straight to the shower from there.
In order to start the end game properly you have to
Spoiler:
do something important on the laboratory table (with something made of glass).
The way it is now, you'll never be able to
Spoiler:
save someone else too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PolloDiablo View Post
Now when I load a save game from just after I switched on the fax, the butterfly isn't there on the pencil. Hmmmm.
Of course, and the reason is
Spoiler:
you have to meet the moth on the table first (then he leaves and flies to the pencil).
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Old 12-18-2010, 07:42 AM   #205
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Yeah I got it. Had a hard time finding a new way down from the table, what with the cable no longer there, but I did it and I saw four endings.

Some alternatives/additions for Fien's texts
Quote:
Mom on tv:
If you can see me now, then you have also seen a man who has lost all hope. He’s running, trying to hide from all the anger and fear that has plagued him. You cannot run from fear, for no matter where you go or what lies you may believe, truth always stares back at your [...]
I think "always stares back from your mirror"

Quote:
First Prize
Teacher: Roger, you’ve shown creativity and real effort. Not to mention tremendous improvement. Congratulations on winning this year’s science fair.
Roger: Thanks. Roaches are the first thing that ever inspired me. I think I want to study entomology when I get older.
Teacher: That’s fun, Roger. Good luck to you.
Bully: Hey Samms! Faggot roach boy! Where did you get them, your mom’s tutu [???].
Roger: No, my mum’s dead. I raised them myself.
Bully: Give them to me, retard! [.....] you dork.
Roger: Everything is gone.
I think "your mom's kitchen"
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:12 AM   #206
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I overreacted to Zobraks. I still feel I didn't do anything to deserve his jokes at my expense, but it was wrong of me to delete my posts. Here are the four endings again. I enjoyed most of the playthrough. Goodbye.

Best ending:
E: What the hell is going on there, Samms?
R: Didn’t you smell the gas?
E: What the hell was that! Hey, hey, where did you get this?
R: That was my mother’s.
E: My God. I gave that to her. Your mother’s? My Angelina?
R: What are you talking about?
E: Look!
R: You... you are my father...?
E: Yeah, I must be.
R: I don’t freakin’ believe it.
E: I don’t believe it either. But how else do we explain this.
R: I don’t know. Let’s get out of here.

Eddie told me about my mom and about the night she died. He felt so bad that he gave me up without even thinking about it. He regretted that all these years. I felt kind of guilty about blowing up his bar, so I took him with me to Mexico. I bought him a little oceanside cantine in Belize where he does pretty well with the tourists. Me? Well, I set up a little lab down here to study roaches in the rain forest. And Eddie and I get along just fine.

Ending with Eddie
Jesus Christ! What the hell was that! That son of a bitch Samms. With all that goddamn scientific crap he has up in his room I know he’s responsible for this. If I ever catch that bastard I’ll kill him!

The fire totally destroyed the bar. My home. This time I really had nothing left. I tried to get a job tending bar but nobody wants an old man scaring their customers away. So now I wander the streets of San Francisco, sleeping in the doorways, panhandling change, thinking about the old days. And Angelina.

Ending with Roger
Hahahahaa.... goodbye Eddie, I hope you enjoy your rent money in hell!

I almost made the plane to Mexico City that night. I was running across the tarmac, waving hundred dollar bills at the pilot when they picked me up. The next day they pulled Eddie’s charred body from the building and then charged me with murder. Of course they didn’t believe my roach story. And now I’m doing 25 to life in the high-security institute for the criminally insane.

Worst ending:
I tried to show Roger that he had a family and I tried to show Eddie that he had something to live for. But I failed. It’s strange how people can be blind to what is right in front of them. Now they are both dead and Eddie’s on the waterfront is gone, bulldozed in the name of urban renewal and progress. On the spot where the bar once stood they built espresso bars and luxury condominiums. Our ghosts haunt those places, forever doomed to roam the spot where our dreams died.
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Old 12-18-2010, 08:54 AM   #207
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I overreacted to Zobraks. I still feel I didn't do anything to deserve his jokes at my expense, but it was wrong of me to delete my posts.
I agree.

I like to make (bad?) jokes and I sometimes overdo doing it, but I think you shoudn't have removed your latest posts (to spite me?).
Your messages are very interesting and useful for all the people who read this topic (myself included) so by removing them you punished all the players.
And me, of course.

BTW, the last (bad?) joke was at my expense (too).
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Old 12-18-2010, 09:41 AM   #208
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You can have the last word if you promise not to pull the Eric Cartman routine again.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:40 AM   #209
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I feel guilty here because i said thank you TWICE, but even it was a joke on previous comments - i'm struggling here whole playthrough because i couldn't catch up with you and comment on some things you were talking, because you were always ahead of me and because of the fact that you are far more experienced - i was playing second half of the game for the very first time.

That said, i especially found titles handy, like one for ending where even after couple of times i couldn't understand fully what was Roger saying.

And although cat in Bad Mojo is certainly bad, it's only because we're seeing it from the roach eyes. I still love my home cats Which reminds me - what happened to the cat?
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:54 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by diego View Post
what happened to the cat?
It lost one of its nine lives.

But what happened to the many cockroaches???
Und what happened to moms ghost (except in the baddest end version she never appears again)?
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:19 AM   #211
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i'm struggling here whole playthrough because i couldn't catch up with you and comment on some things you were talking, because you were always ahead of me
Hey, are you the same guy who complained the terms for playing chapters were too long ("waiting for the 'Seal of Approval'" to go on playing after finishing some parts long before the deadline )?

Quote:
Originally Posted by diego View Post
And although cat in Bad Mojo is certainly bad, it's only because we're seeing it from the roach eyes.

I bet someone feels much better now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by diego View Post
what happened to the cat?

It... got wings?




Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
But what happened to the many cockroaches???
Those cuddly little creatures? Who cares?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
Und what happened to moms ghost (except in the baddest end version she never appears again)?
She's safely tucked in the locket Roger brought with him to Yucatan. Angelina probably takes every opportunity to haunt Eddie and Roger and rebuke them for drinking too much.


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Old 12-18-2010, 11:56 AM   #212
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You think they never got out of her influence? They will allways be under her controll? She will forever have her eyes on them????
I beginn to think she don't want the two men to be dead - would spoil all her fun.

So but now i'm serious again. We wanted to discuss what the "bad mojo" is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fien View Post

Woodworm:
These walls hold frozen memories, happiness and strife,
one man’s hidden enemies, a sad and broken life.
In a dozen fancy bottles, life’s sweetness nectar dwell
a recipe is the motto for one man’s living hell.
Sip the coloured fluid, each in strict progression.
Remember all that you did, and consume them in succession.
Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
It's the answer to what Back Mojo means, isn't it.
But perhapt we can discuss this, too, after the crawlthrough.
I thought that the bad mojo started with Eddie who lost controll over himself after Angelinas dead. He started the bad mojo, a loop of guilt, selfpitty and hatred.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:10 PM   #213
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You think they never got out of her influence? They will allways be under her controll? She will forever have her eyes on them????
That's what wives/mothers usually do .

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
I beginn to think she don't want the two men to be dead - would spoil all her fun.
Now you're starting to get the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
I thought that the bad mojo started with Eddie who lost controll over himself after Angelinas dead. He started the bad mojo, a loop of guilt, selfpitty and hatred.

It makes sense. I wonder why Angelina didn't turn Eddie into a cockroach? He started it all.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:57 PM   #214
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It makes sense. I wonder why Angelina didn't turn Eddie into a cockroach? He started it all.
But he could not end it. He tried. He wrote a letter to the orphanage and wanted contact with his son, but bad Roger refused the contact.
So Eddie wanted to change the bad mojo he started, but Roger was still "infected" and needed a cockroach cure. He needed to see Eddies world.

About moms: yes, i know. Have to look at my mom. I will always be her child, even now, when i'm 45. It has pros but is surely has cons, too.

In this case, mom did it right.
She had the look of love / heart Eddie and Roger lack.
Both are very selfish and hate everybody, but both have the ability to love, buried deep deep inside.
Hey, i now found out that Bad Mojo is a really heartwarming story!
Ok, not for the cat or the cockroaches, the fish, the spider and ...
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:42 AM   #215
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But he could not end it. He tried. He wrote a letter to the orphanage and wanted contact with his son, but bad Roger refused the contact.
I don't think Roger was bad for not wanting to see the father who had put him into the orphanage. That served Eddie right.

Moreover, Eddie didn't try to contact Roger while he was in orphanage/when Roger was a child , he only did so a couple a months before the time the game is set in (when everything went downhill for him - local authorities decided to tear down his bar, CSDoABC suspended his license to serve alcoholic beverages and electric company was about to "terminate gas and electric service"). It seems that Eddie wanted to (finally) meet his son only when his whole life went down the drain/turned to hell .

Roger's attitude was quite predictable and understandable:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Samms
I received a disturbing letter today from an agency that specializes in reuniting adopted children with their biological parents. They claim to have found my father, who now wants to see me. Can you believe that? The nerve of that bastard! After all these years, he's finally ready to see me, he has got to be joking. The last thing I need right now is a relative in my life. Especially my good for nothing son-of-a-bitch father, the man who left me at the lovely St. Francis of ... with sister Mary Theresa as a ever ... (loving?) mother.
I will never forgive him for that, and I refuse to answer the letter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
... the look of love / heart Eddie and Roger lack. Both are very selfish and hate everybody
I somehow failed to learn from the game that Eddie and Roger hated all people.
I don't think that was the case (specially regarding Eddie), but even if Roger hated people he sure had some good reasons for that - remember the scenes from the orphanage/from his youth?

Quote:
Originally Posted by seagul View Post
Hey, i now found out that Bad Mojo is a really heartwarming story!
Yes, it is . Or at least it is supposed to be, depending on how a player feels about it, I guess. The authors said in a chat that one of the main influences on BM was Frank Capra's great film It's a Wonderful Life:

Quote:
Originally Posted by serpentbox
let's not forget the influence of It's A Wonderful Life on this game. To touch the life of another in a positive and loving way IS the meaning of life in this humble writer's opinion. It is why we exist. Ultimately, Roger Samms realizes the same thing. Sort of.
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Old 12-19-2010, 07:03 AM   #216
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i'm struggling here whole playthrough because i couldn't catch up with you and comment on some things you were talking, because you were always ahead of me and because of the fact that you are far more experienced - i was playing second half of the game for the very first time.
Yeah, you're right. I waited a couple of days before posting the four endings, but before that I was too eager to post my comments. Should have waited longer.

Zobraks:
Quote:
You can have the last word if you promise not to pull the Eric Cartman routine again.
and

Quote:
I bet someone feels much better now.
It just goes on and on... ad nauseam. Sad, really.
Thank god for ignore lists.

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Old 12-19-2010, 09:03 AM   #217
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About the endings. Strange as it may seem, I don’t care much for the best ending. It’s so cosy and nobody, not even Mom, gives a shit about the stolen money. Family matters, not fame and fortune, is what she said. So much for ethics. Eddie’s ending as a homeless bum seems much more fitting to his lifestyle. Karma and all that. I even found it touching. That one and the worst ending.

In the Roger-ending he definitely remembers his temporary transformation (“they didn’t believe my roach story”), just like Mom urged him to recall everything he’d seen and heard. So he deliberately chose not to save Eddie. How I wish they had made him scream “goodbye daddy!” instead of “goodbye Eddie!” The designers missed a golden over-the-top opportunity here.

What makes the story great in my opinion, is that it’s consistently over-the-top and yet interesting, funny and satisfying. Not so easy to achieve, over-the-top can be extremely boring. Also told in a clever way, like when you gradually find out that after Angelina told Eddie on the Golden Gate bridge to think of his son, he actually did try to find him. The burned pic and stuff in Roger’s shower is the perfect way to tell the player what happened. Subtle, to the point and even moving. Well, at least for me.

I’m always willing to suspend my disbelief when a game is good and immersive, but nitpicker is my middle name. Both the bar and Eddie’s room have plenty of portraits of Mom. So Roger never ever set foot in the bar? Oh, come on! And then there’s that great, sappy letter from Loving Reunions, which had me in stitches. Love can fill that empty hole inside you... your cold and broken heart. I’m sure Patricia Haven with her glib cliches is used to dealing with bitter souls, but even she must have raised an eyebrow when she had to write a letter to a son living at the same address as the father.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:08 AM   #218
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I don't think Roger was bad for not wanting to see the father who had put him into the orphanage. That served Eddie right.
I don't think it either. I said "bad" in the sense of "does not do what mom wants". And behaves like a sorehead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zobraks View Post
I It seems that Eddie wanted to (finally) meet his son only when his whole life went down the drain/turned to hell .
I love Fiens idea: that he first wanted to kill himself on the bridge and than Angelina spoke to him. Seems logical, now that i come to think of it.
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I somehow failed to learn from the game that Eddie and Roger hated all people.
I don't think that was the case (specially regarding Eddie), but even if Roger hated people he sure had some good reasons for that - remember the scenes from the orphanage/from his youth?
OK, i exaggerated a tiny bit. But look at their conduct at the beginning of the game: seems to me as if this was an example of their normal behaviour. I think they are very similar: full of selfpity, unable to cope with a bad situation, only seeing what others do wrong to them.
A Wonderful Life - must be on television the next few days - a typical christmas movie. Hhhhhhhmmm. I should watch it. I last saw it when i was a child.

Never thought about the stolen money before. But is it really stolen? If Roger is doing his cockroach research in the rain forest, without the pressure and the indignitys he has to cope with at the university, he spends the money the way it was supposed to be used.
We still did not solve the riddle about where the money came from. Perhaps we really miss something here?
Quote:
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The burned pic and stuff in Roger’s shower is the perfect way to tell the player what happened. Subtle, to the point and even moving. Well, at least for me. .
I loved this scene, too. And many other ways they tell the story. We already stated that the story is not... unique, but i like they way it unfolds and how the riddles are an integral part of the game.
You are right, Fien, about the ending in which Eddie becomes homeless: it seems very fitting. It shows us, what would have happend if Angelina hadn't spoken to Eddie on the bridge: he would have killed himself or become homeless after the bar would been closed. Eddie needed Roger to be saved.
I like the very loopy Roger who lives in the high-security institute for the criminally insane. In some way it is the real Roger. And it shows us, what would have become of Roger without moms (and later on in Mexico Eddies) influence.
I think it is important to play the bad ends, because only by experiencing them we are able to understand that Eddie and Roger needed each other to be whole again. The bad mojo started when they where parted and ended with their reunion. Granted, they both are in some way totally cuckoo. But if they are happy studying cockroaches in the rain forest and mixing drinks for tourists..... so it be.
Fien, you made me laugh out loud when i read about the stupid Patricia Haven who did not even raise an eyebrow.
She is so over the top in her letter. It is really intrusive and repellant. And in some way an insult to Roger.
But writing this i beginn to think that perhaps she wrote to Rogers adress at the university? It is the only thing that makes sense. Roger only moved into Eddies house a short time ago, if i remember well.

Last edited by seagul; 12-19-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:50 AM   #219
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But look at their conduct at the beginning of the game: seems to me as if this was an example of their normal behaviour. I think they are very similar: full of selfpity, unable to cope with a bad situation, only seeing what others do wrong to them.
The only thing I could conclude about Roger and Eddie from the intro (and you should take it with a grain of salt, since I'm not very good at judging characters) is that they're both nervous and rude. And it makes sense: Roger is on the needles and tense since he's about to run with the money and Eddie is edgy because Roger is late with his rent money.
And people (obviously) tend to be rude when they're nervous.
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Old 12-19-2010, 02:22 PM   #220
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I think it depends on how you interpret what you see.
Are Eddie and Roger acting "normal" when they talk to each other? If you believe this, than you conclude, that they are rude to nearly anybody.
Or are they acting extrem because they are under great pressure? Than they may be kind boys normally.
But we have other moments of their lifes which we can consult to see how they are.
We heard Rogers monolog at the beginning, we read his diary and we know how Eddie behaved in the past.
And to me it seems they are full of selfpity, unable to cope with a bad situation, only seeing what others do wrong to them. They lack even the slittest bit of empathy. They are only interested in themselfes.
And the funny thing is: only by reaching out for the other their situation changes. Only by seeing their little private world from a higher level they become the opportunity to change their situation.
If left alone, Eddie drinks himself homeless and Roger gets himself mad.

The game only shows the transformation of Roger into a more human being. Eddis transformation happened when he was on the bridge, trying to kill himself. Then Angelina spoke to him and gave him hope by reminding him of his son. That was an easy task for her.
The game is mostly about Angelinas much harder task: to give Roger some sympathy for Eddie.
I don't think Roger remembers every thing that happend while he was a cockroach. It is more a subconscious thing.
Oh, it is too late tonight, i beginn to state the obvious.
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