Casualizing Point and Click Adventures
 

i just read this yesterday, i thought this is pretty interesting read:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...art.php?page=2

kinda sad how the game practically play by itself to please the casual crowd :P

i mean something like this (on the 2nd page) :

* hint at the crowbar/door task with dialog
* pop up a dialog box explaining what to do
* flash the crowbar
* when the user clicks the crowbar, it pops up large on screen with particle and sound effects and flies into inventory slot
* crowbar flashes in inventory
* door flashes when crowbar is picked up
* big reward for using crowbar on door

The description you quote is of the tutorial of the game, not how the overall game mechanics work.

I don't really want to get into another debate over whether casual games adopting adventure elements is good or bad for the "true" adventures, but for another example of how adventure games perhaps aren't quite as intuitive as their fans think, check out this wonderful article where LucasArts/Telltale designer Steve Grossman has his mother-in-law try a recent Sam & Max game.

I think Phoenix Wright and Professor Layton games consitute as casual games. A lot of moms play them.
Yet they can be hella hard.

Your definition of casual games is that "moms play them"? I hope all the moms out there are suitably insulted.

I'm a grandfather, where does that put me?

I believe the standard position is to not have anything to do with these new-fangled computer thingamajigs. A stick and some mud was good enough for amusement in your day, and it should be good enough for kids now. :)

I think the "moms" thing has become a common shorthand for casual games fans. The idea is someone that doesn't have time (in the moms case, due to having to run a family) to get into more complex games. It's not necessarily an intelligence thing (as Origami said, some casual games are "hella hard") but more to do with the games not needing large blocks of time devoted to them.

As is often the case with this sort of shorthand, it's not entirely accurate, but such things rarely are.

That's a great article and really illuminates the issue at hand. We don't adventure games to go away yet there's a lot of kicking and screaming when design decisions are made to appeal to a broader audience. You can't have it both ways...

Both are interestig articles. The one posted by GarageGothic reminds me a bit of when I tried to introduce a friend of mine, who is totally not in games whatsoever, to Day of the Tentacle. Although I had explained that she could pick things up, and that it was a good strategy to try to pick up everything that wasn't nailed down, or at least everything that looked like something not too heavy to carry around, she just never used the pick up option, or any other option other than a sporadic 'look at', even when I suggested it. She just didn't see why she would carry an object around which was of no apparent use for her yet. Apparently some people not familiar with the adventure genre have a different approach, way of thinking, belief of how the game should be played, and it shows the need for tutorials or manuals, to explain what we long-time adventure gamers just take for granted and consider completely logical.

It is actually pretty interesting to see this difference in way of thinking. However, it also shows that casual and adventure are two different genres that are pretty hard to mix, as (from the article potan posted) the typical casual gamer does not like the what the typical adventure gamer (or at least I) likes: the exploration, having to consider what to do next, and not too rush towards the end.

I really don't see what the problem is with that connection.
Fact is, whether you like it or not, rarely are moms hardcore gamers.
Not to want to treat all moms alike, but that's the truth.

Now where does that put you? I guess in an awesome position.
You have the privilege to enjoy a great medium opposed to a lot of people that don't.

I am not insulting anyone here. I don't decide how a demographic group decides to spent their time and what hobbies they pick. I just call them as I see them. There is nothing ensulting about the truth.

Edit: And if my post was interpreted as an attack on the intelligence level of certain groups, it wasn't. It works like this: If you're a casual gamer, your tolerance level is much lower. As a casual gamer you prioritize other things, thus when a game poses a certain level of difficulty you might easily decide to do other 'more useful' things. Now hardcore gamers are more passionate about games. Their love for gaming motivates them to overcome difficult obstacles.

I'm tired of the assumption that women like casual games, and casual games aren't "real" games, therefore (most) women aren't real gamers.

According to the ESA, women make up 40% of the overall gaming audience, and are the fastest growing demographic among gamers. Yes, it's unlikely that busy mothers are going to devote as many hours a week to video games as the stereotypical "hardcore" gamer does, but that's because they have other things to do -- not because being a woman or a mom somehow makes them less interested in games. Also don't confuse the type of game someone likes with their passion for gaming. I know plenty of women who will spend hours at a time playing Sudoku, Bejeweled, Tetris, etc. Why are they less hardcore than the 20 year old guy who plays Halo for hours on end?

Any game designer who thinks they should exclude this demographic because women/mothers are somehow incapable of understanding or enjoying "hardcore" games -- even those who innocently assume that women will never enjoy these games, so why bother trying to make games they might like? -- is missing a huge opportunity to expand their audience.

I also think the assumption that casual gamers don't like more complex experiences is a dangerous one. Plenty of people like to play more simple games sometimes, and more complex games at other times. (Just like plenty of adventure gamers enjoy games in other genres, too.) Is it a fact that the majority of casual gamers *won't* enjoy a more adventure game-y experience, if it's introduced in the right way? How can designers possibly know that unless they try it?

Yes. Unless you're talking about casuals like Drawn, which are not really adventures. The stream of gamers who abandon adventures in favor of casuals is much bigger than the tiny trickle of casuals who might get interested in the adventure genre. To the best of my knowledge, the once popular but far too optimistic view that casual games would act as stepping stones has been abandoned. They are different segments, like Luna said.

This is how I see it. Casual games are like snacks. If you want to dabble in an interesting game without all too much work or effort, then casual games will fill that void. When you want a meal, you'll play a real adventure game, or any other genre.

I'm hating the assumption that only casual gamers play casual games and hardcore games despise casual games. Absolutely not true.

wow, thanks for sharing the 2nd article, i missed that one too,
it's a great one :D

Very well put.

No, not very well put. Hardcore gamers also play casuals, but casual gamers do not play the games that hardcore gamers play. :P

Clearly there are a lot of developers of casual games who see value in evolving the gameplay to include adventure elements, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'm not suggesting that casual games should be used as stepping stones (or gateway drugs :devil: ), but I do think that many of the elements we like about adventure games (story, puzzles) can also work well in a "casual" format, and can be enjoyed by so-called casual gamers. I don't understand why many adventure gamers seem to be offended by this.

So I was right, you WERE talking about Drawn c.s. and not about adventures at all.

I agree that we're seeing more of this. One reason why adventure gamers may be offended by this (but I'm just speaking for me, n=1), is that the gap between casuals and adventures is downplayed by advocates of the shallow casual games, such as yourself. If elements like story, puzzlesolving, inventory management are used AGAINST adventures ("hey, look! us casuals offer the same great stuff!") then the evasive but essential quality of adventures is the most important discerning feature left.

So one is either in one group or the other, are they? I see.

Heh. Actually, four groups: A's who also play casuals; A's who don't ; C's who play only casuals; C's who play the occasional adventure. How big would YOU say the last group is? :P

But of course there are as many imaginary groups as the number of criteria the wonderful human mind can come up with.

Never said casual gamers play Hardcore games. Just fighting the assumption that is at hand.

If you are a casual gamer, then would casual games be a snack? No. Casual games are meals in their eyes. That is why he said my post was well put. You just didn't understand the concept.

You can look at it any way you like, but most women are not gamers. I witness that first hand everyday.

Which basically tells us nothing in this discussion, because that research also includes casual games. So who knows.....it could be interpreted as 40% of the gaming community are women who play casual games(statistically improbable ofcourse but you get my point).

I agree and I already pointed that out. However when you wrote that last sentence I was reminded of something. Men and women are wired differently. Overall women think long-term and men short-term. A lot of women prioritize a steady future so I can see why they would more easily refrain from becoming a hardcore gamer.

I know them too. And that can't be a coincidence. The games you just listed are pick-up-and-go games. Another example of why (I believe) most women are unlikely to invest long periods into gaming. Again....I am not saying there aren't women who are willing to do it.

Hmm, I have enjoyed reading this thread, and learning how others see games and gamers, even if none of this explains why I play games or which type of game I like. I play both casual and adventure games and they seem to be blending more and more and I like it that way. I have played a few hidden object games that, for me, had more adventure in the way of story and game play then some adventure games.

Both articles (Dave Grossman and Andrew Goulding) were very interesting reads.

Accessibility is a huge issue for more casual-orientated games but as we know, these games with a lower barrier of entry have been growing more and more complex over the years, blurring the line between "casual" and in this case, "adventure".

I certainly don't believe that this amalgamation should be a cause for concern amongst adventure game enthusiasts. Telltale aren't just going to stop making adventure games in favour of hidden-object games. Personally, I think this deeper understanding of what new players need in a game can only be seen as a positive.

It's also kind of insulting to us "non-moms" who play and enjoy them...

Seconding this. :)

i would be an (albeit) slow example of this exception to your rule there. i played and completed drawn, moved onto machinarium, and now am totally enjoying other games like full throttle, beneath a steel sky etc.

it may not be the hardest but this "casual" game helped me get the gist of the mechanics of the genre so i would have more patience and not get frustrated,

since i started with adventures again last month i haven;t gone near a walkthrough, (or even used any of those hints in machinarium (and believe me when i say i forgot most of what i did the first time i played it))

so it definitelly helped my barrier to entry, which i found much too tought last year when i made the mistake of trying the harder games first off.

I used to play over 30 adventures a year. I have never played anything other than adventures or puzzle games. Last year I discovered Casual games, and now that is the majority of the gaming I do. The reason is time. Right now I'm reading more, so what I want is more of a gaming quick fix for an hour or so. With a full length game, sporadic play is difficult - you forget where you've been, what you've done and sometimes even the story details. I'm in the over 50 female group of gamers that love the adventure game experience, but want it in smaller units. I'm not a mom, but I can imagine that anybody with a busy lifestyle would not have the luxury of sitting down to a couple of hours of interruption free gaming.
My biggest complaint about casual games is their lack of challenge, though games like Drawn are upping the bar somewhat. I still enjoy adventures, and will probably play more of them in the winter when weekends are less busy.

Great and funny article :D. It also explains a lot, because mother-in-law can also represent other gamers who are not accustomed or acknowledged to adventure games, and can show with what sort of decisions developers and publishers have to deal with if they want their product to find wider audience.

modern "casualization" of video games could be also closely related to things like - growth of internet, along with the rise of use of personal computers in almost every aspect and mass marketing. Changes happen in every genre that are evident to die-hard fans of that genre - Civilization fan who played all games in a series will probably tell you that Civ 5 is a commercially mass-oriented simplified version of previous installments, and long-term RPG fan will tell you that none of new RPG games can compare to the complexity of an older ones. It's not different to adventure games, but it's really interesting to see how things develop because adventure genre is unique in a way that it was the most popular genre, yet with the rise of popularity of action oriented games managed to keep up with it's roots, which is not a "conservative" thing at all because the shiny-new FPS is also based on every basic idea that Wolfenstein or Doom had. Further, it's special in a way that many of modern casual games rely on adventure game elements, like puzzle solving, and even story-telling. Finding a hidden-object is just a simple form of puzzle solving in order to progress.

"Casualization" of adventure games could also mean how graphic surpassed text adventures, or how things evolved regarding the fact that we have an option to show hot-spots that wasn't there before. As for modern "casualization", it's not clear how the traditional adventures will come out of it, but it is already visible how, like every other genre, adventure games are influented, and especially because of the fact that games like hidden object games that are on the rise resemble adventure genre the most, and that the two have a lot in common, or becoming similar. I suggest this article on thoughts of correlation between them.

Some things are already obvious, like that some traditional adventure companies are "lost" in the trend. City Interactive is no longer doing adventure games, Kheops and AWE Games too. Some are in the middle of it, like Frogwares who made casual game out of Dracula series or AGON producers who announced that there will be two new AGON game versions - casual and "full" one. Or Al Emmo casual game, which as authors said - "was needed in order to raise funds for next full adventure game". The only question in all of this is will those companies that embrace themselves in titles that might bring them more financial success ever revert to the old ways?

But even if they don't, you can't beat interactive story telling. If we are to discuss how adventure games are influented, puzzles is probably the first thing that comes to mind. But when you think of it, puzzles or "interaction" is the only thing which make games what they are.