[poeticadventurer]

Ok, what I love about adventure games is that they usually have the most immersive, atmospheric, and surreal settings and stories. They really draw me in and transport me to another world.

But even though I love this aspect of adventure games, I have a love-hate relationships with the puzzles.

It seems to me that there are many puzzles in adventure games where the solution does NOT rely on logic so much as being able to think exactly like how the creators think.


The thing that frustrates me is when I get stuck for days, eventually look up a walkthrough, and find out that the solution was something that I wouldn't be able to think of without thinking exactly like the creators wanted me to think.

I can't go in to specifics without turning this into a spoilers thread, so I'll remain general.

Suppose there is a secret room inside a mansion. You need to get in to this secret room. So you wander around the entire mansion and look painstakingly through every pixel, but you don't find the secret room. Then you look up a walkthrough and find out that the secret room was activated by a switch which is in the shape of a candlestick that doesn't stand out in any way from the hundreds of other candlesticks in the mansion


I don't know why, but I always run in to issues with puzzle design when I'm playing adventure games. I don't really like looking up walkthroughs because they are written in a format where they end up spoiling many things for you before you find the solution to the particular puzzle you were looking for.

So what do you guys do when you're stuck and logic fails? How do you get into the proper mindset to solve adventure game puzzles? How do you know that the thing you're looking at is supposed to be a clue when it doesn't stand out in any way from its surrounding environment ?

(This post turned out to be longer than I intended, and I suspect I won't get many responses. Thanks if you bothered to read all this.)

[Jon_wachter]

I read through it all and I think there is a number of different ways I solve a puzzle. 1. Pure dumb luck, I try something and it works even though I don't understand how or why. 2. The good old try everything on everything. 3. Going to sleep and try to figure it out the next morning instead. 4. Cheating obviously. 5. Experience, a lot of adventure games use the same solution to solve a puzzle. At least this is true for the comedic third person point and click adventure games.

Usually it's just a matter of simply examining everything in your inventory, which will give you a clue as to what to do next. This was particularly the case in that latest game I finished, Runaway 3.

Pixel hunting can be a pain in the ass, but usually in games that require pixel hunting like Ceville and Simon the Sorcerer 1, they have the inbuilt system that highlights everything you can pick up.

[GarageGothic]

Originally Posted by poeticadventurer

I don't really like looking up walkthroughs because they are written in a format where they end up spoiling many things for you before you find the solution to the particular puzzle you were looking for.

I think I have just the right thing for you.

But yeah, personally I've given up on adventure games in their current form. I'm also a big fan of story, immersion and exploration, but these days other genres handle those so much better than current-gen adventure games, with a few exception like Telltale's Sam & Max games. They're brilliantly designed in terms of difficulty and hints, and with the most innovative and creative puzzle design I could (and sometimes couldn't ) imagine from a point-n-click title.

[Jon_wachter]

I too have a love hate relationship with puzzles, but without them every game would be like Dreamfall...which isn't to say it's a bad game but still it's fun to be a little challenged when you play a game.

[poeticadventurer]

Originally Posted by Jon_wachter

I too have a love hate relationship with puzzles, but without them every game would be like Dreamfall...which isn't to say it's a bad game but still it's fun to be a little challenged when you play a game.

I don't mind challenges either. Its just frustrating when I get stuck and the solution turns out to be doing something that borders on non-sensical (unless I do it by accident or dumb luck).

I think the reason this happens is when the creators expect you to think exactly they did when they designed the puzzle, but human brains approach things differently.

Not everyone is going to look at a drawing of an arrow pointing up and interpret it to mean that you have to slap the clown in the face with a fish. (<-I made that up, but it's not too different from a puzzle that made me stuck in a previous game)

P.S. Thanks for the link, Garage Gothic.

[Idrisguitar]

I think it’s less a case of the designers wanting you to think like them, it’s more a case of the designers wanting to pad out the gameplay by adding in a pixel hunt section.

Most puzzles gamers will have methods for when these arrive and that is: interacting with every hotspot in every room and checking them off. (By interacting I mean examining, using, combining items with etc.) It’s a tiresome method but nearly every adventure game has these moments.

To look at it in a more positive light, these sections allow for the player to really examine the surrounding areas precisely which is a good opportunity for the developers to put in some more random inventory items that the player may need later. Thus forcing the pixel hunt can sometimes simply be a way to make sure the player comes across these crucial items.

This was a very similar complaint I had the first time I tried out this genre. But I’m slowly coming to terms with the mechanics of these games and that is allowing me more patience, and much more enjoyment appreciation.

[Isak]

I think that the "show hotspots" function that have started to appear more and more in adventure games, are a great way of "half-cheating". With this function, you don't need to pixel hunt - the interactive action on the scene are shown - and hopefully, this is enough to help you skip reading a walkthrough.

[cbman]

Originally Posted by Idrisguitar

I think it’s less a case of the designers wanting you to think like them, it’s more a case of the designers wanting to pad out the gameplay by adding in a pixel hunt section.

Spot on.

If you took the pixel hunting out of most 'classic-style' adventure games you would probably cut the overall gameplay time in half.

[poeticadventurer]

Ok, wanting to pad out game length by adding in a pixel hunt is one possible explanation, but how do you explain other puzzles that make people stuck ?

Haven't you ever ran into a puzzle where you got stuck, and when you saw the solution you thought "How on earth did they expect me to come up with that?!"

I know I have. You guys are all adventure gamers here. How do you deal with things like this? Do you just shrug it off and say "Whatever. This comes with the territory."

Doesn't having to resort to a walk through bother anyone else? I guess what I'm asking is, how do you guys deal with the potential design flaws in the adventure game genre such as puzzles with far-fetched solutions? Does it ever bother you ? Do you ever get frustrated? Do you just shrug it off and say "whatever" ?

P.S. To clarify, I'm not talking about difficult or challenging puzzles. I love challenges. I'm talking about puzzles where you got stuck and when you saw the the answer you scratch your chin and go "Are you serious ??!!" There's a difference (although, admittedly, it's a very thin line sometimes).

[Idrisguitar]

Originally Posted by poeticadventurer

Ok, wanting to pad out game length by adding in a pixel hunt is one possible explanation, but how do you explain other puzzles that make people stuck ?

Haven't you ever ran into a puzzle where you got stuck, and when you saw the solution you thought "How on earth did they expect me to come up with that?!"

I know I have. You guys are all adventure gamers here. How do you deal with things like this? Do you just shrug it off and say "Whatever. This comes with the territory."

Doesn't having to resort to a walk through bother anyone else? I guess what I'm asking is, how do you guys deal with the potential design flaws in the adventure game genre such as puzzles with far-fetched solutions? Does it ever bother you ? Do you ever get frustrated? Do you just shrug it off and say "whatever" ?

P.S. To clarify, I'm not talking about difficult or challenging puzzles. I love challenges. I'm talking about puzzles where you got stuck and when you saw the the answer you scratch your chin and go "Are you serious ??!!" There's a difference (although, admittedly, it's a very thin line sometimes).

trust me man, im crazy about going to a walkthrough. it almost ruins the game im playing if i have to go to a walkthrough more than once or twice.

when i get REALLY stuck like you say (although because im a beginner im only playing easy games right now so hasn't happened much.) i simply mull it over, and when i start to get impatient i quit the game.

no matter how frustrated i got the day before i always find myself drawn back to the game the next day, and if my brain hasn't clicked and i haven't figured it out. i usually go on a pixel hunts search, talk to everyone, examine everything, combine everything with every other possible thing/person, use everything etc.

now that last proccess may not sound fun, but when its to progress in a game you are actually engaged in, then its fine, especially after a night's rest.

its why i find it hard to have fun with the overly humorous games, because their narratives aren't a big reward for their tough puzzles. whereas in a serious game where i truly want to know what happens next i find myself easily motivated.

[poeticadventurer]

^Thanks for your response, and I'm glad you brought up light-hearted/humorous adventure games vs. more serious adventure games. I also find that I prefer the more serious adventures, to keep myself motivated to continue on through the spots where I get stuck.

[Lady Kestrel]

[Dwagginz]

I try to puzzle them out as often as I can, but whilst I loved The Longest Journey, I couldn't stand half of the puzzles. They were either so abstract or so infuriating that I ended up playing the game in a window with a walkthrough behind it as reference.

I'll admit I'm very inexperienced with adventure games (I can recall playing two; Blackstone Chronicles and more recently, TLJ. Working on Dreamfall currently!), which is why I sometimes struggle with them.

P.S. I can't stand Tower of Hanoi puzzles. No, just... no.

[Periglo]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

I try to puzzle them out as often as I can, but whilst I loved The Longest Journey, I couldn't stand half of the puzzles.

Oh, specially that one puzzle. Must be the worst ever, together with that other one in GK 3.

[Dwagginz]

Originally Posted by Periglo

Oh, specially that one puzzle.

You'll have to remind me which one it is.

[Periglo]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

You'll have to remind me which one it is.

It involved an inflatable duck, and things not normally associated with this sort of object..

[Dwagginz]

Originally Posted by Periglo

It involved an inflatable duck, and things not normally associated with this sort of object..

YES! I hated that one! It makes sense in retrospect, but like a lot of puzzles in that game, I found them very annoying. There's such little logic to them unless you can think on another level or something.

Another one that got me was behind the cinema. Like... What?

[sierramindy]

I remember that cinema scene in The Longest Journey and I thought of it as playing a *dirty pool* trick on the gamer because there was a ticket to the cinema in the inventory, so I stayed by the box office waiting for it to open. I looked all over trying to find the person who would be able to do that. No luck, of course, since the solution was in the alley in back, not in front. I needed a hint (wt or UHS, don't recall) to go back there, but then the solution to the puzzle was really neat and I enjoyed it. It was a lot of fun the way it worked out.

[poeticadventurer]

Originally Posted by Dwagginz

YES! I hated that one! It makes sense in retrospect, but like a lot of puzzles in that game, I found them very annoying. There's such little logic to them unless you can think on another level or something.

Another one that got me was behind the cinema. Like... What?

Those are the kinds of puzzles where you have to think exactly like the creators did in order to get it.

This is what I was trying to point out in my original post.

The puzzle might make sense on some level, but in order for it to make sense you have to be in the exact same frame of mind that the creators were in when they designed the puzzle.

It's a problem that new game designers have to be careful about.

--------------

Here is an analogy: Imagine an adventure game designer who used to be a former submarine captain (bare with me ). Suppose he designs a puzzle where the user is sitting in a boat on the river and they have a compass, a ruler and a clock in their inventory. The user has to catch a leaf floating ahead before it gets away. Most people would be stuck on this puzzle, but if you also had a background in submarines, you would know that you could calculate the angle of bow by using the clock, and noting the distance travelled within three minutes . The point:In order to solve this puzzle you have to think exactly like the designer did. In this case, you have to think like a submarine captain.

That was an extreme example, but I'm pretty sure that a similar thing happens on those seemingly nonsensical puzzles that make us get stuck.

Game designers need to be more careful about this issue.

[Dwagginz]

@sierramindy; That's the redeeming thing about TLJ. Even if you have to use a solution for a puzzle, the outcome is always worth it, either instantly or later down the line.

@poeticadventurer; Couldn't agree more.