[Brimstone]

I was wondering around the AG shop looking for a game I haven't got yet and saw CSI:NY in the list. The first thought that came to my mind was "What the heck is that doing here?". I've played it before thinking it would be like the other CSI games and was seriously disappointed to find I had bought a hunt and find casual game.

Do these even classify as adventure games? I really want to know.

[cbman]

It's all down to opinion I suppose.

Personally, if they have the pretence of being a proper adventure game then my viewpoint is that they shoudl be reviewed as such - and therefore receive a very critical review for being a rubbish adventure game.

But it seems that the trend is for them to be indulged and given special pleading in reviews.

[Jackal]

Short answer: Most aren't, some are. Of the latter, most of those (but not all) are hidden object/adventure hybrids.

Some people love arguing that being a hybrid somehow disqualifies them. Probably the same people who'd insist a Peanut Butter Cup is really just peanut butter. Or chocolate. But hey, sometimes things are both.

We reviewed CSI: NY, though (and it didn't rate very highly). If you aren't sure about a game, this should be the first place to check.

[Brimstone]

I've been playing REAL adventure games since the text adventure Zork came out in the late 70s early 80s (i forget what year). In my opinion adventures should have 3 primary elements in order to be classified as an adventure game.

#1 Storyline - If there is no story there is no adventure.

#2 Play Time - The game has to last and stay interesting enough to want you to come back to it later.

#3 Quests - Questing is the meat and potatoes of nearly all true adventure games.

These are my personal generalizations and nothing more. I feel like the "casual game" genre should be just that, it's own genre. We don't need adventure wannabes mucking up the genre with lame excuses for games like hunt and find that take less than an hour to finish. That sounds more like the back of Highlights magazine I used to read as a kid.

[fov]

Originally Posted by Brimstone

#1 Storyline - If there is no story there is no adventure.

#2 Play Time - The game has to last and stay interesting enough to want you to come back to it later.

#3 Quests - Questing is the meat and potatoes of nearly all true adventure games.

Fair enough. Some casual games actually have all three.

[GreyFuss]

No!

[dekaneas297]

We have debated about it in numerous threads. Is this new thread necessary?

[Sughly]

Originally Posted by dekaneas297

We have debated about it in numerous threads. Is this new thread necessary?

Yeah I do agree. I'm a little tired of this debate. I understand some people feel strongly against it but at the end of the day Jackal is right - some are worthy of attention, and I for one appreciate at least being told about games and given the opportunity to at least consider them rather then not be shown the games at all.

[orient]

Everyone has their own definition and none of them are wrong.

Personally, I see no benefit in attempting to define a strict genre guideline. Games should be judged on an individual basis. Sure, it's convenient to be able to label something a HOG or a FPS, but the truth is, there's so much cross-over nowadays that these old genre definitions just can't keep up. I just wrote an essay on this very subject and now I'm totally sick of it :-P

[rtrooney]

Originally Posted by fov

Some casual games actually have all three.

I think there is a fairly substantial list of Casual Games that meet that standard.

Drawn: The Painted Tower
Time Dreamer
Dire Grove
3 Cards to Midnight
The two Ravenhursts

And I could probably tick off at least a dozen more, but the above are probably the best known.

To be fair, there are some really lousy Hidden Object Games that are only that. But some, specifically those created by Spintop Games, are very well put together, highly entertaining, and offer competetive scoring opportunites that make them quite addictive if you are the competetive sort. (Which I am.)

[Monolith]

Would Drawn be classified as a HOG? It is no different than a general adventure game. Just more casual playable.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Would Drawn be classified as a HOG? It is no different than a general adventure game. Just more casual playable.

That one doesn't have any hidden object scenes, so probably not.

[Bon]

I'm pretty sure it has, on at least two occasions (like when you need to collect broken pieces of glass scattered all around the screen).

As for the topic, "casual" games can definitely be adventures. Hidden object games are not adventures, they're just a sub genre of casual (i.e. short, cheap, easy and really user-friendly) games.

[Steve Ince]

Pure hidden object games are falling out of favour and the move towards adventure increases all the time. The HO gameplay tends to be placed into small areas that are expanded to full screen when the player interacts with a cluttered trunk or an untidy patch of garden, say. Collecting and using inventory items is on the increase.

There are no item combination in the inventory or proper dialogue topic choices, but it may be a short while before we start to see the first of these - the casual market evolves very quickly.

[cbman]

I actually quite like Hidden Object games and don't really like these new titles that are moving more towards being rubbish adventure games.

HOGS are fun to play with the family - kids, older relatives. Proper adventures aren't so useful in that regard. But most of the recent HOGS i've palyed have been as Steve Ince described above. But when I want to play an Adventure game i'll play a proper one. I don't want loads of tacked on story to click through when I play a casual game. It's this trying to dress casual games up as proper adventure titles that annoys me. For me, the 'genre' is evolving into an awful hybrid form that fails to be a good casual game and fails to be a good adventure game.

The Mystery Case Files games are a good example of this. The initial Ravenhurst game was a fantastic HOG - atmospheric Hidden Object scenes broken up with fun door lock puzzles in a roughly 4 - 1 ratio. Return to Ravenhurst on the other hand bored me rigid (and the afore-mentioned relatives). The pace of progression was too slow and it took too long - they're supposed to be games that you can play casually, not ones in which you can get through a few puzzles a session and have to keep coming back to. If the story was engaging then it would be okay but it's usually just cliched nonsense tacked on.

It's sad to see a genre I love (adventure) and a genre I enjoy (HOGS) being smelted into this sloppy rubbish we are seeing. I generally only install HOGS that are a few years old now because I know the recent ones will be this 'adventure-lite' rubbish.

[Monolith]

I will and always will stand by the fact that Hidden Object games are Adventure games lite.

Example: Someone is 50% mexican, but someone says they aren't mexican because they aren't 100% that way. Does it not make them that race?

The fight is pathetic. Bon pointed out Drawn had some HOG elements in it......guess what? All adventure games have at least some sort of HOG element. Why? Because HOG games are offsprings of Adventure games.

It's sad to see a genre I love (adventure) and a genre I enjoy (HOGS) being smelted into this sloppy rubbish we are seeing. I generally only install HOGS that are a few years old now because I know the recent ones will be this 'adventure-lite' rubbish.

How dare they experiment with genre's? Maybe we should restrict certain games into different camps and work them to death? See what I did there?

[crabapple]

Originally Posted by Monolith

HOG games are offsprings of Adventure games.

I thought they were derived from those hidden picture puzzles they have in children's magazines. Those have been around for more than 50 years and predate any computer games.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by crabapple

I thought they were derived from those hidden picture puzzles they have in children's magazines. Those have been around for more than 50 years and predate any computer games.

They are. lol Since when did they have a story, or puzzles?

If you're going to make that argument, then where did Video Games come from? Didn't they start out as board games? Seriously?

[crabapple]

Originally Posted by Monolith

They are. lol Since when did they have a story, or puzzles?

Finding the objects is the puzzle.

And there were books of hidden object puzzles where the different puzzles in the book were linked by a theme, which is as much as the earliest hidden object games had.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by crabapple

Finding the objects is the puzzle.

And there were books of hidden object puzzles where the different puzzles in the book were linked by a theme, which is as much as the earliest hidden object games had.

Yeah, you are missing the point.