11-30-2010, 08:48 AM | #181 | |
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Happy to hear you could catch up, IndiePhonics.
I know, The Hive is a strange chapter. It seems the whole hive is a body seen from the interior. Everything seems so "organic", like walking through liver and stomach, ugh. Perhaps this can be seen as a representation of a childs body under the desease: one the one hand we have the medicine/cyclops on the other hand the illness/insectoids. The insectoids are blind and stupid, their only goal is to dominate. The cyclops have the mission to cure. But we now know, that the medicine made by Dr. Morgan isn't the right cure. Perhaps his medicine transforms itself in the childs body into something bad, like the poor half-bug creatures, as KasiaD calls them. We know that Max wants to find a real cure. Perhaps his dream world in The Hive represents this situation. A wonderfull idea about Jennifer! It sounds totally reasonable to assume, that Max passed his time with Dr. Morgan, not with Jennifer anymore. We have seen Max with Jennifer in the jungel: they seemed very close together and, perhaps, worked together. Jennifer knew about his great goal in life. Remember the discussion we had in the chapter The Circus of Fools? Jennifers = Infernos Husband was killed by Iggy, the squid boy. She was alone. In the above mentioned link there is a very analogue idea, about Jennifer beeing left alone by Max who turns towards Dr. Morgan : Quote:
I'm looking forward for your summary, IndiePhonics. I had nearly no sound, so i had to solve the sound puzzle without it - made it much more easier, KasiaD! I felt very sorry for the half-bug creatures, too. Knowing what is happening to you and that you will transform into the thing you hate the most - and all this because of the betrayel of a friend. But what i really can't get out of my mind are these cyclop children, crying for their father who will kill them without regret for his personal enrichement. Treating children like this shows a really ill mind. Really odious. |
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11-30-2010, 07:48 PM | #182 |
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Finished the morgue chapter. I jotted stuff down as I played so this may not be the most grammatically correct piece of text you've ever read haha. But anyway here are my thoughts:
Is the frozen girl depicting yet again his wife? She is warning him because for her it was too late but she is trying to tell him it's not too late for him? I am still unsure as to weather in the "real world" (whatever that may be because I am still confused about that at the moment) if she is alive or dead. Flashback about Max threatening to leave the company has become a recurring theme of having to keep him within whatever is going on, either he has developed a new drug but Morgan knew this, wanted him to get the research then kill/do something to him in order to take all the glory? Or he knew too much about the experiments that were going on and was simply disposed of as soon as he was no longer needed. As for the tree's speech, I wondered if it was meant to represent Max. Even thought he knew Dr Morgan and he were no longer working towards the same goal he knew he had to stay there to save/help the children or general people suffering at Morgan’s hands? This links in with the Mother in chapter two thinking it was helping and saving the children by staying in a foreign place and the circus staying put and still carrying on the show despite nobody coming to see it. I found the chapter ok, I didn't feel it flowed very well as, in my opinion, each task seemed rather separate. For example it took me AGES to realise I had to use matches inside the particular drawer and also took me a while to notice the pipes. It may have been me missing things but I felt like there was nothing leading you to other clues on the whole. But I didn't dislike the chapter. The next chapter looks intriguing and just from the small bit I've played I already really like it but again, where has this jump to Aztec's come in Just when you think you are figuring things out the game takes a total left turn and I love it |
12-02-2010, 10:42 AM | #183 |
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Interesting idea about the zombie girl representing Jennifer. We have seen Jennifer as a dead bride in chapter 2/The innocent abandonned. So seeing her again as a "dead" person means perhaps something. Is she really dead? Or is the relationship between Max an Jennifer at a dead end? Or are Jennifers feelings toward Max dead? I hope we will see more about Jennifer.
As i understand the situation between Max and Morgan it is like this: Morgan wants to keep up the situation like it is. This means selling Hope as a medicine that improves the health situation of a child - even when he knows it can kill some of the children by changing itself inside the childs body. He can make more money this way, because the child need the medicine forever. Max wants to create a cure which extinguish the desease totally - but has not found the right way yet (but we know from the prologue that at the end he will). Doing this kind of research costs lot of money. And after a child is healthy, it don't need the medicine no more. So no more money can be earned. And don't forget Morgans "nice" father, who wants his son to be succesfull - when Max invents a cure, nobody cares about Morgans medicine any more. I believe too, that Max stays at the laboratorys to help the children - it always was his main goal. But i think Mother represents the medicine created by Morgan. This medicine had a good destination: save the child from immediate danger. So does mother: she wants the best for the children. But she don't understand, what children need. And so does Morgans medicine, it doesn't do the right thing. |
12-02-2010, 12:29 PM | #184 |
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I had forgotten about this actually! A simple point to make, but a really important one too. It puts Morgan into a much clearer perspective...
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12-05-2010, 10:32 AM | #185 |
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This week was dedicated to The Lost Village.
I have a bad could, so I hope I get every thing right in my empty head. If I write something rather stupid it’s because of my feverish delirium and I apologize. You can always correct me. Surprised to be here? It’s not the first time we hear about the Aztecs. Remember Don from chapter one/The Cell? He spoke about warriors demanding vengeance. As Lenny and Martin he is foreshadowing events that will come, or, did come. We have the same underlying ideas here as in nearly every chapter: two opponents, fighting each other, but fighting for different goals. One wants to become dominator, the other wants to save the innocents. But there are new facets that we can find here. Asked why he does all this damage, Quetzacoatl says he wants the absolute power over earth and heavens. But to do what? Everyone will be dead, not a stone will be left standing. What a world would this be? I can imagine that it would be for some perverted brain nice to be bad and kill people – but afterwards …. very boring. Nothing will ever happen, nobody will be there. Spoiler: Max behaves a little strage: he has become so harsh. I don’t remember him ever been like this before. Another new idea is the sacrifice of oneself, which the village witch does to save the village – and he will not be the hero either for doing so. By the way, Mrs. village doctor is not very pleased with him sacrifing himself. Perhaps a hint what happened to the relationship between Max an Jennifer? Interesting is Max’s answer: “Still your selfish tongue, crone!! He does what is required. He faces death as a brave warrior should!!” The idea of the mask, representing the power is interesting. Perhaps we understand it better after playing the next chapter. So, till next Sunday you have time to cope with The Maze. Have fun! |
12-12-2010, 10:57 AM | #186 |
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Looks like i’m having a soliloquy.
So nobody had time to spend in the maze? I extend the playthrough for the maze till wednesday. Please don’t leave me high and dry – we are reaching the last chapter and the final riddle soon. |
12-16-2010, 03:42 AM | #187 |
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Seagul! So sorry, I got caught up in work and forgot about Sanitarium once again
Alright, I'm not going to bed until I catch up! I'll be back afterwards with my thoughts... hopefully you haven't strayed too far! EDIT: Ok, I only just finished Lost Village so bear with me! (at least I managed it quickly ) I was going to raise the same points you did on Quetzacoatl as well as the 'old crone', amongst others. I guess one thing that caught my attention was this notion of seeing - the statues at the foot of quetzacoatl's hill will watch Max, and then shut their eyes when they are looked at (or was it stand near? Not sure no!), and then furthermore in the end clip we see him move through a locked passage by interacting with the carving's eye. It seems to hint strongly at this idea of Max not seeing something, or alternatively finally seeing something. I think that's actually about the only point I noticed that you didn't pick up on haha. You're too observant for me, Seagul! Well, the end clip to this is pretty much in line with what I suspected for a while now. Will be interesting to see what happens in this maze... I'll get started on it tomorrow Seagul! Hopefully you're still around...
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12-16-2010, 11:58 AM | #188 |
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Dear sughly, I'm so happy to hear from you!
So i'm not speaking with myself anymore. I said i will comment on The Maz today .. er.. yesterday. But i have some work to do in the real world. I delay the comments till tomorrow, sorry. |
12-17-2010, 06:05 AM | #189 |
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Had some laptop issues but all is sorted now and going to crack on with Sanitarium today so shall hopefully post comments later or tomorrow
EDIT: Done! Well I must say I REALLY enjoyed The Lost Village and The Maze, my favorite chapter by far The comedy added into the dark story with the use of Olmec and his blunt way of speaking made me laugh out loud at points, for example, "Biiiig totem pole" then once inside the Jaguar temple his disgust that there is not a picture of him on the wall. Wonderful. I felt for the first time we see other people trying to defeat the enemy. Its gone from Ch.2 where Max is fighting against all the children and they are most unhelpful, through to the circus where people are slightly more helpful towards Sarah, than through to the bug level where at the end "Max" has convinced people to see that the leader is dangerous. Then in this level we see everyone fighting the common enemy. I see this as the whole company must have realised what Morgan was doing finally and Max was either the leader or just the only one who would stand up to him maybe? The maze was not as hard as it first appeared and I felt quite logical. I tried to think of the relation between a maze and what was happening in real life. Maybe the maze inside Max's head leading to the solution (the mask?) Not too sure on this one. The cut scene at the end pretty much confirmed what had already become apparent but it was done in a fantastic and dramatic way. Last edited by IndiePhonics; 12-17-2010 at 08:40 AM. |
12-17-2010, 03:09 PM | #190 |
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Wonderful to hear from you, IndiePhonics. I feel less alone now. And a great idea about all people now fighting together for the same goal.
At first I have to apologize for the delay – real life and Christmas preparations had a grip on me. I like your idea about Max seeing something or not seeing something. I didn’t look at the statues, but you are right. It fits very well with the light, don’t you think? Last chapter the door to the tomb could be opened by light, the entrance to the maze was opened by light and even the eyes point in the same direction: something was in the dark a must come to light now? I forgot to mention the cut scene at the end of the Aztec chapter in my last comment. Max remembers himself in an archaeological excursion? He And seeing a photo of this excursion next to the photo of his beloved sister Sarah and while he seems to make a connection between the photos he exclaims: “Could it be so simple? All this time…?” And then he seems to have the solution. After this we see the prologue scene again. So Max had the accident directly after his greatest success. And this time we can see that the breaks don’t work – something is wrong with the car. But let’s talk about The Maze now. I hate mazes. I really do. Mostly I don’t see a reason why there should be a maze at all. This time I can imagine that the maze echoes in some way Max’s state of mind – confused and looking for a way out. What I didn’t realize that clearly before: Quetzalcoatl is dead. His body lies in his maze tomb with his dead mask. He obtains his power from his dead mask. The villagers adored him in his temple and tomb – so first he had to die before he became a god? I think I miss a piece of the puzzle here or I see to much signs. By the way, nice how the eyes of the mask begin to glow when Olmec /Max dons it. The fight between the two gods is very short. They seem to fall into an endless tunnel full of blood. This triggers a strange sequence (*) in which Max enters a world in which Sarah is alive and Jennifer wants him to belief he only bumped his head by falling from the chimney. When he doesn’t believe her, and Max realizes that Sarah is dead and this world a fake the farce collapses. And now, finally, we meet the real villain doing his job. Dr. Morgan says farewell. I think first time players will now not understand what is happening. But soon you will find out. So let’s start with Uploaded with ImageShack.us We have time till Wednesday; it’s only a short chapter. And then, after this short chapter we will have the showdown and endgame. I hope to hear from you. And thanks for passing by. * = I have to apologize because I wrote something wrong in my summary from 11-21-2010. I thought the macabre scene with Jennifer and Sarah was after The Mansion. Sorry, I must have seen a part of the youtube walkthrough at the time I played The Mansion and got confused. |
12-19-2010, 03:01 AM | #191 |
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I feel bad. I haven't played Sanitarium since I finished The Hive. For some reason, the urge to continue playing hasn't come around and I didn't want to waste the game by playing it when I didn't feel like it.
To be fair to myself though, I've been very busy with school and only had time to play during late nights. And that too would have seemed like a waste. But I'm free during the holidays so I hope I'll be able to catch up now. I haven't read the last posts of the thread in order to avoid spoilers, so for all I know you may all have finished the game already. I'm going to play the next chapter now, see how far I'll get. Edit: All right, finished the morgue and observatory. I'd post some well-put thoughts, if only I had any. I continuously get the feeling that this game goes way over my head. This thread have saved much of the experience for me, which I would have otherwise breezed past. Anyway, I'll try to come up with some things later. Right now I have an appointment, of sorts. Last edited by harald; 12-19-2010 at 04:23 AM. |
12-19-2010, 09:22 AM | #192 |
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Hello harald, nice you found interest in the game once more. Me thinks it is worth it.
It really is an exceptional game - even if you played it a few times you can miss some connections. I try to do my very best, but i'm sure, AFGNCAAP is far more experienced. I hope he is well, he never showed up again ... |
12-21-2010, 07:57 AM | #193 |
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What stuck with me the most from the morgue chapter are the same questions as always: What is real and what is delusion? How (in-)sane is Max? These chapters that take place at actual locations of the asylum are very difficult. They deal with the non-ethereal questions of Dr. Morgan and the false accusations of Max, as well as the dubious circumstances surrounding Max's fall into insanity. The first of the doctors is obviously a villain, but is Max that too? This isn't obvious yet. He either got cold feet at some point or remained oblivious up to a specific occasion. More likely though, he just didn't see what he absolutely didn't want to see. Until he couldn't look away any more. That doesn't exactly make him "one of the bad guys", but doesn't leave him innocent either.
[I wrote this before catching up with the thread. I only just now read seagul's opinion about Max being an altogether good guy. It makes a lot of sense, but I still think we have indications that Max noticed some signs that everything wasn't right with Dr. Morgan. But he pushed those thoughts away because he wanted to trust his friend and didn't want to risk his research.] We still have the supernatural features found in the other, semi-disengaged chapters, only a little more subtle. Things like the talking gargoyle or animated tree suggest that Max really is as nutty as the next inmate - and if we can't determine whether the experiences of our "alter ego" are real, how can we know if anything in the game is? This is the major thing that keeps me interested in the continuation of the game, and also my main concern for the story. Of course I'm also dying to know exactly what Dr. Morgan's plan is, where Max's wife is et cetera, but the answers to those questions are more or less irrelevant if I don't get any indication of which parts of the game actually took place outside Max's psyche. I'm afraid to get disappointed at the end - if it turns out that everything was an illusion and nothing is explained, there will be nothing to care about for the player and nothing to remember from the game. As for The Hive, my reaction when that chapter ended was an unconvinced "Okay..." It was the least interesting and coherent sub-story so far. I mean, those about Mother and her children, and the circus and mansion, at least made some sort of sense and had a proper closure. The Hive was much less satisfying: The back-story seems interesting at first, but it turns out to be remarkably easy for Max/Grimwall to infiltrate the whole insectoid colony and bring the queen down - he barely even needed to take any risks and didn't confront any of the main villains. Also, what's the deal with the Cyclops we team up with on the upper levels of the colony? All his co-workers disappear and he doesn't even get suspicious? Doesn't the grotesque autopsy of an alien (but disturbingly human-looking...) baby concern him? He never even entered the oven room where they openly burned Cyclops fetuses? You can of course argue that these self-contained stories aren't the main point of the game; they don't even necessarily have to 'work' as a story since they are obviously symbol-filled fantasies taking place inside Max's head. But since I feel that I'm missing most of the true meaning of these stories anyway, I don't have much else than the stories themselves to enjoy during play. Again, it's a good thing this thread exists to allow me to fill in at least some of the gaps afterwards. Oh yeah, there is one more thing that nags me. It has been brought up before. How does Max travel around the asylum? It's never explained how he escaped the tower or reached the lab. I hope it will be eventually. I think I'm only one chapter behind now, so I hope to catch up soon. I assume you will begin the next chapter next week? |
12-21-2010, 11:33 AM | #194 | |||||
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Harald, i hope i can soothe you: the game has an end that explains everything (all about Morgan's plan and Max's dreams, what happened to Max and if the dreams have a meaning) - at least that’s my opinion. I heard from others that they didn't understand the ending. But let's discuss this later, when we all have reached the last scene of the game.
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You are right: Grimwall/Max doesn't confront any of the main villains. This is an interesting observation. Perhaps you can keep this in mind and we discuss it later, after we finished the game. I think it falls in the same category as you remark about Max pushing the bad thoughts about his friend Morgan away because he wanted to trust him. Quote:
Where is the alien autopsy? (I really can’t remember it). The cyclop children burned by the insects are not foetuses. They are the children we see in the upper level of the queen’s chamber, where they call out for their “father” Gromna and in the lab level, where Gromna holds his speech. After the queen sucked them nearly to death, they are murdered by being burned in the machine. There is no hope to stop this madness except to stop the machine (what Max does) and to stop the transfusion machine (what Max does either by removing vital parts – and by doing so the whole hive will disintegrate and every insect and cyclop will die). His last step is to walk through the blue portal with Gritza to report to the other cyclops what really happened. Quote:
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I wanted to announce the next chapter tomorrow, but we can wait till next Monday. |
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12-22-2010, 06:12 AM | #195 | ||||
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Thanks for all your reassuring points, seagul. Now I'm looking forward even more to the rest of the story.
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In summary, I get this story better now, but I still think it suffers from an anticlimactic ending. Oh, don't worry about me! I don't want to be a show-stopper. In fact, I think I'll play The Lost Village today. Last edited by harald; 12-22-2010 at 02:00 PM. Reason: Clarifications |
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12-23-2010, 10:52 AM | #196 |
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12-24-2010, 04:49 PM | #197 |
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Haha, yeah Merry Christmas! I actually finished it last night, pretty cool. I saw seagul that you mentioned others being confused by the ending, but I can't see how that's possible. It's pretty clear about what is what by the end, in my opinion. Basically spells it out to you. I'll wait to see though how others went before I dive in. I'm still a bit fatigued from Christmas
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12-25-2010, 08:58 AM | #198 |
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Happy to hear you survived Sanitarium, Sughly!
Now you should read this: http://www.adventuregamers.com/forum...ght=sanitarium There are perhaps some details i didn't mention and other opinions then mine. If i remember it well, there are different opinions about what the ending means. But i have to reread it before we reach the official ending of the playthrough. |
12-26-2010, 07:49 AM | #199 | |
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So let’s at last (sorry for the delay) speak about The Gauntlet.
The last chapter ended with (the real) Dr. Morgan’s monologue about how he will defeat Max and his cure. He reveals how he staged the car accident and we see him injecting some kind of poison into Max’s IV. We now know that Max is lying in hospital after his car accident. * Everything that happened so far, even the chapters in the asylum are Max’s dreams and his only possibilities to cope with the situation. Now, after Dr. Morgan’s new attempt to kill his old friend (“I’m so sorry, Max”) the situation reaches another climax. The real struggle - as the title of the chapter indicates - between Max and Morgan begins. And now Max remembers everything and is aware of the whole situation as he states himself: ‘I see the connection now! None of this is real!’ There is another hint that Max now knows who he is. We see parts of his face in this place, without the usual bandage. While the last chapter ended with Quetzalcoatl’s mask and unmasking the enemy (simultaneously in the dream world and the real world), this chapter is all about following openly his enemy who escaped into another hiding place. At this moment Max isn’t capable to act in the real world. All he can do is to fight again in the dream world. Bu how can his acting in the dream world have influence on the real world? We will see. With Max knowing what’s going on, this chapter is different from the others. He can use his different dream personalities with their different skills to solve the riddles. The place is composed out of the places Max visited in his dreams. They all had their meaning and helped Max to remember. Max’s goal in this chapter is to open the gate to, as he hopes, the real world. He needs to wake up to fight against Dr. Morgan. To do this he must find all missing parts of the angel statue. - Again the angel statue. The angel lead him to his first dream in which he had to cope with his past. The angel’s motivation was to save the innocent. Now we know the angel talked about the children who are without a real cure to their disease. “Seek the truth!” is the order the angel gave to Max. Now he knows the truth – most of it. We will see that in the last chapter the angel will repeat this sentence. The angel spoke about the lights of heaven who are darkened and his once bright tower. We know the motive of the light: we had in The Morgue and the Cemetery, where the light represented the fight for the right and noble goal. The reappearance of the angel shall remember Max what his goal in life was: save the children. To save them, he has to survive and go public with his cure (the event, Morgan fears the most). So saving the children and saving himself has become the same goal for Max. As our dearly missed guide said on another thread: Quote:
This chapter ends with a new dream world – but I promise, it will be the last one! There is only one final riddle to be solved. In the cut scene that ends the chapter we see how Max’s dreamselfes are taken away by the dream world Morgan. He has mutated since the end of last chapter into something really black (something devoid of all light) and oily. Really disgusting. Morgan speaks about how he told Max endless times that he himself is his worst enemy. So let’s now start the last chapter and end fight between Max … and Max???? Uploaded with ImageShack.us * As I stated before, there are some other interpretations of the events possible. If someone has a different opinion, please cough it up. For me, the above mentioned interpretation is the most logical, but who am I to judge? By the way. I'm sorry for all the details i don't mention. The more i study this game, the more connections i see. If you think i didn't mention a interesting detail, feel free to amend it, please. |
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12-26-2010, 03:44 PM | #200 |
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I just finished playing The Lost Village and all the way to the end in one sitting. What a game! What a wonderful experience! I've made some harsh critiscisms at times, but most of it has either been false accusations, isolated cases, or they have grown on me as I continued playing. Still, here's another irrelevant nitpick: I didn't like the credits sequence. It was a terrible mood-breaker and the strange music mixed with lines from the game was irritating. Nice idea with the news broadcast at the beginning, though.
I enjoyed the Aztec chapter, but not so much the maze part. It felt pointless, and I kept walking into the purple sparks. But I do appreciate the symbolism with a maze. The second last segment was cool, a mixture of the previous dream settings. And finally was the function of those mysterious keyboard commands revealed. I agree with your interpretation, seagul. Max must have been in the hospital bed for the whole game. During the final "battle" with Morgan, he gradually finds his real self again - his body is revealed one step at a time as he crushes the orbs. The symbolism of the orbs is a mystery to me though, at least for the moment. The only thing I can think of that wasn't clarified is Max's relationship with his wife. Why is she depicted as a skeleton in the first marriage scene? This, together with her representation as the fire-breather indicates that something isn't all right between them, but there is no evidence of this at the end. Maybe I'm missing something obvious. All right, over to you clever people. I look forward to hearing your interpretations. Maybe I'll be able to add some more when I've let this brew in my head for a bit. |
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