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Old 08-29-2010, 08:37 PM   #41
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Actually, there is proof. Look closely at the letter: there's an attached file with a list of music for both Toonstruck and Toonstruck 2: http://tinyurl.com/252mv75
password: toonstruck

There's a full list of rooms that were to be in Toonstruck 2. Only the real Keith Arem could have access to this material.

And the whole thing about petition really makes sense: Toonstruck 1 was a commercial failure, so to make publishers interested in financing Toonstruck 2, Arem needs to prove that many people will buy it. He doesn't ask us for money, he asks us to confirm that we'll be interested in purchasing Toonstruck 2.
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Old 08-30-2010, 12:31 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus View Post
There's a full list of rooms that were to be in Toonstruck 2. Only the real Keith Arem could have access to this material.
At the risk of seeming pedantic, if only Keith Arem could know that, how do you know that list isn't made up? "It must be Keith Arem because he's provided a list of rooms we've never heard of" isn't exactly a strong argument.

In case anyone now says, "but we've heard of some of these rooms through leaks on the internet", then that still doesn't prove that the list is made up (and undermines the "only Keith Arem would know" argument)

I also personally think that an online petition isn't going to persuade any publisher. It's usually pretty easy to create multiple votes on these things (more than one e-mail address will normally suffice) and clicking to sign a petition isn't a commitment to buy. Say a sequel was made with material made at the time of the original. Some people will read reviews and decide the sequel isn't faithful to the first. Some will find a way to get it without paying. Some will have had expectations that everything would be brought up to modern standards. Take all those out of the list and the numbers of potential buyers rapidly dwindles.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:52 AM   #43
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In my opinion, it's just too complicated to be a hoax. And if newmy51 wanted to collect money, he would've asked for them instead of waiting for a 50000 petition to be completed (it can take a year or more to complete it, usually money-pickers don't wait this long).

If you still have doubts, you can mail Mr. Arem on [email protected] and ask him to confirm it. The email is genuine, as proven by Mr. Arem's profiles:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...le.php?id=5794
http://www.ascap.com/ear/earcd1.html

Besides, the email belongs to Keith Arem's company, PCB productions, so the possibility of it being fake can be completely ruled out.
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:35 PM   #44
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As the creator of the original petition and the horn-sounder, if you will, of the call to rally behind the making of a sequel, I can attest to the authenticity of the initial correspondence which took place between myself and Mr. Arem, but the sincerity of Mr. Arem's intentions to make the release a reality pending an as-of-yet unquantified level of "fan support" (which we only know needs to be "tremendous," whatever that may entail) is indeed in question. Until there is some semblance of a public statement from Mr. Arem himself corroborating the statements made in that prior and solitary correspondence, that will remain the only assurance we have. This conversation, which was first publicized on the Toonstruck 2 fan project forum, was my own contribution to the site and has nothing specifically to do with that project other than it being my venue of choice for first breaking the news. This development is as new to them as it is to the web at large, and it has so far actually been met with more apprehension than excitement by their members. Any parties interesting in authoring articles on the topic of a Toonstruck 2 are welcome to contact me at [email protected], but would perhaps be better off contacting Keith himself as my role so far has only been one of a kind of town crier; reiterating a game producer's wishes as they were expressed to me in writing. At present, the ball appears to be squarely in his court.

EDIT: As a sidenote on the topic of donations, I have been thoroughly disappointed with both the absolute lack of support or staff of any kind at PetitionSpot as well as the existence of an option to donate which is at no point in the petition creation process displayed or explained to the petition author. I had no idea that there was any donation function inherent in the petition until discovering a comment made by a signatory and donor on a random forum who I then asked for details about his donation. I have left two voicemails at Daniel Blake's personal cell number (owner/foudner of HarknessLabs and subsidiary startups PetitionSpot, card.ly, tinychat and others) requesting an explanation to no avail. Where those donated funds go and why $250 is the target amount I have no idea, but I would generally discourage other petition signatories from giving any money on the petition page as I cannot ascertain where those funds are ending up or how they are being utilized.

Last edited by toonstrucktwo; 08-30-2010 at 06:53 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:26 AM   #45
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Naive, crook or both?
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:23 AM   #46
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A crook wouldn't discourage people from donating money
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:48 AM   #47
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maybe somebody working for the site could try to contact him to do an interview about the whole situation? seems to me that it'd be a good opportunity for him to promote interest in the petition and the game itself
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:46 AM   #48
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maybe somebody working for the site could try to contact him to do an interview about the whole situation? seems to me that it'd be a good opportunity for him to promote interest in the petition and the game itself
It's legitimate (as is Keith Arem's post above, most likely). I contacted him, because I was dubious about the petition too, so I wanted to get the facts from him before I posted about it on my site.

I conducted a very small interview with him, which you can read here.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:36 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniBee View Post
It's legitimate (as is Keith Arem's post above, most likely). I contacted him, because I was dubious about the petition too, so I wanted to get the facts from him before I posted about it on my site.

I conducted a very small interview with him, which you can read here.
Nice one, I was surprised to read that the rest of the creators also want to re-release it too, thats even more reason for people to sign this petition. Good thing he mentioned not to donate money to the petition spot site cause a few people have and noticed that the counter is still at $190 out of $250
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:34 PM   #50
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For the record, AG hasn't posted anything in the news section because there's nothing resembling news so far. Only a lot of speculation, hearsay, wishful thinking, and fan hype of an incredibly dubious proposal even if it is legitimate.

If we were to post anything, it would indeed first require verifying all the information independently, as only then would we have anything remotely factual to report. And frankly, our manpower is stretched thinner than the amount of work there is to do already, let alone going on potentially wild goose chases.

Having said that, even if I had time, I still wouldn't. Even if I knew for sure, I wouldn't. If Keith Arem himself had approached me and asked for the site's support in promoting it, I'd have said no. I'd have tried to put him in touch with existing adventure publishers like I've done with other developers seeking support for their projects. Maybe people don't realize it, but in this genre, that happens all the time. The vast majority of games are at least partially independent projects only picked up late and distributed by publishers, not fully financed through production. Any of those studios could pull a stunt like this. The reason they don't is that it's bush league. An online petition isn't going to convince any self-respecting publisher, and trying to solicit funds either directly OR indirectly through public channels is ridiculous. The quality of the game, an actual production plan, and at least some evidence of commitment to the project are the only things that'll do that. If there's as much near-finished material as some of these rumours claim, that should be an easy pitch.

I'm personally willing to believe (hypothetically) that the sources are true and Arem really does have an honest desire to release the game and has at least some of the resources to do it. This just isn't the way to do business. And reporting stuff just because it's circulating the internet isn't the way for AG to do business. There may indeed be a story buried somewhere under all the hype, but until someone invents the 30-hour day, we need to prioritize somewhere, and this is one of those places.
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Old 09-01-2010, 08:38 PM   #51
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I wish to make a few things clear:

I am a fan of Toonstruck who has been in passive pursuit of a complete, thoroughly-tagged, losslessly encoded Toonstruck soundtrack for a number of years. About a year ago, a Last.fm member compiled something which achieved about 85% of what I was after, piquing my interest sufficient to go off in search of the rest. One of the destinations I would eventually include in that search was the Toonstruck2 Fan Project forum, knowing that they had long been in the business of archiving all kinds of media and production materials for the game and its never-seen second half. I eventually got around to finding Keith Arem's name in the game's credits where he was listed as being the game's music director, and upon finding his email I sent him a letter of support for his work in Toonstruck and a request for information on some of the still unknown music sequences, their catalog numbers no longer corresponding to the audio they did in 1996. Keith's reply has been quoted wherever mention of the petition exists, as well as within the petition itself. It included the original production spreadsheets detailing all of the music used in *both* halves of the game along with Mr. Arem's kind words and enthusiasm for the release of the previously unreleased material. A facebook page, twitter account, online petition and several posts in various forms would soon follow, absolutely no aspects of which are or were ever intended for the use of raising money for anyone or anything. They exist to serve as both a metric for gauging public interest and a loudspeaker to get the word out. A completed petition of 50,000 signatures, should it ever occur, would not guarantee a Toonstruck sequel, nor, I imagine, would it be a publisher's/distributor's only requirement in order to go ahead with the release of a game, but it would serve as a potent response to that call for tremendous support. Call it anecdotal evidence, a show of hands, a preliminary marketing survey, it really doesn't matter. What it is not is a prank, and contrary to Jackal's opinion, I feel it would make an excellent and newsworthy piece here at AdventureGamers, especially now that all of the developments thus far have now been confirmed by the original source. If clamor will in any way shape or form help contribute to the release of Toonstruck 2, an article here (or anywhere else for that matter) could serve as a valuable vehicle to achieving that end, however large or small the contribution may be.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:56 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toonstrucktwo View Post
What it is not is a prank, and contrary to Jackal's opinion, I feel it would make an excellent and newsworthy piece here at AdventureGamers, especially now that all of the developments thus far have now been confirmed by the original source.
You consider it an excellent and newsworthy story, but that's only because you have such a personal interest in the subject matter. As it stands, even accepting the whole thing is true, the story headline is effectively
Toonstruck 2 might get made if a lot more fans show an interest and if that results in a publisher picking it up and if the assets from the original are still usable and if they can be brought up to modern standards and if the project doesn't get axed (as many do).
That's a lot of ifs (and that's just the ones of the top of my head). For you, I understand they don't matter. For a site like this, those ifs mean there is nothing worth reporting. Further down the road that may change but for now you're effectively asking for additional hyping of something that is quite remote.
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Last edited by stepurhan; 09-02-2010 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:17 AM   #53
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Some guy called Bernard Le Moullec who on both the Petition website and Facebook has said he recieved an email from Keith Arem yesterday with some "Exciting" news attached, thing about its hes too tight to provide anyone with the info and he wants us to email him if we want to know what it is, yeah right and probably he'll send some sort of virus or spam to our inboxes, unless he posts it where we can all see it then I ain't buying into it so a warning to everyone just in case you see that comment from that guy.
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Old 09-02-2010, 06:20 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Rosswell View Post
Some guy called Bernard Le Moullec who on both the Petition website and Facebook has said he recieved an email from Keith Arem yesterday with some "Exciting" news attached, thing about its hes too tight to provide anyone with the info and he wants us to email him if we want to know what it is, yeah right and probably he'll send some sort of virus or spam to our inboxes, unless he posts it where we can all see it then I ain't buying into it so a warning to everyone just in case you see that comment from that guy.
Yeah right....a totally random guy receives a newsworthy info exclusively instead of a specialized site like this one here. This guy is:

A) Delusional
b) Friends Needed
c) A Crook
d) A Spammer

Live or die, make your choice!
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Old 09-02-2010, 08:03 AM   #55
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Without going into authenticity of the whole thing which needs additional investigation as said, there is another thing - it would be Director's Cut rather than Toonstruck 2 even if it was all true. It would be Toonstruck made compatible for today's computers with included scenes that were originally cut.

Now, those scenes were indeed planned to be included with Toonstruck sequel but they were never compiled into an actual game as far as i know. So, it's not just like Warcraft Adventures: Lord of the Clans which was 99% finished product but wasn't published - it's rather the material that never got into the game, and not the game itself.

To quote the quote of Mr. Arem from the petition text:

"I would like to re-release an updated version of Toonstruck to include the 2nd half of the game"

You can't just include the material - unless, there is an already finished product which needs to be integrated. But then, it would be more convenient to say "sequel", rather than "an updated version".

Another thing - Toonstruck ending was rushed, due to cut of the material in the time of the publishing. So, the cut material wasn't just the suffice material, it was actually something that shaped Toonstruck, so to include the material now would need an additional work.

Not that if would hurt and if it was only the release of the original game made to run on modern computers.

Last edited by diego; 09-02-2010 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:03 AM   #56
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@ stepurhan:

I understand your apprehensions and I will not pretend to understand an industry with which I have little or no experience. I don't disagree that there is mostly hype to work with at the moment, but that has been enough for some to go about giving the events transpired so far a headline. When and where it has been reported, one or more of the caveats you listed has been mentioned. If the criterion here is that the games AG reports on must already exist or nearly so, then so be it. The point I wished to make is that any article has the potential to help make this game a possibility, at least according to Keith Arem & co., as he/they have identified fan support as one of the factors at play in the making of the game.
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:37 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by toonstrucktwo View Post
@ stepurhan:

I understand your apprehensions and I will not pretend to understand an industry with which I have little or no experience. I don't disagree that there is mostly hype to work with at the moment, but that has been enough for some to go about giving the events transpired so far a headline. When and where it has been reported, one or more of the caveats you listed has been mentioned. If the criterion here is that the games AG reports on must already exist or nearly so, then so be it. The point I wished to make is that any article has the potential to help make this game a possibility, at least according to Keith Arem & co., as he/they have identified fan support as one of the factors at play in the making of the game.
I donīt agree with you. You are asking to them to release a new based on only flimsy information. It would be the same as if New York Times released news based on these same principles just to help someone.
This whole Toon 2 business is looking very shady from the get go. I think we should wait for concrete information. A contact from someone actually working on it and not wishful thinking.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:30 AM   #58
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It's a shame that Adventure Gamers is reluctant to publish an article on the subject. Arem's address is indeed real, you can see it on PCP productions website (A company he now owns). His full resume can be found here:

http://www.pcbproductions.com/HTMLfi...s/credits.html

A bunch of other popular gaming websites have already gone ahead and made mention of the project:

http://www.destructoid.com/-tremendo....phtml#comment

http://www.australiangamer.com/news/...up_to_you.html

http://www.ripten.com/2010/08/18/fan...ruck-2-lbd416/

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2010...comment-486123

Heck, even Kotaku made mention of it:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/08/too...fter-14-years/

It's probably wouldn't make a tremendous difference by now, what with the major sites already covering this news but getting as many people as possible talking about Toonstruck is what this initiative is all about.

Arem needs an interested developer to take on the project, he has all the necessary assests to reconstruct the original game.

And as for Bernard Le Moullec? From what I can gather he's a french IT graduate with a keen interest in Toonstruck and a job in games journalism/development:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/...moullec?ref=ts

I emailed him myself and he sent me on a copy of the e-mail from Keith Arem, the news contained within is indeed exciting. He has good reason to request private correspondance too.
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Old 11-12-2010, 12:54 PM   #59
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Keith Arem just posted this over on the official Toonstruck 2 facebook page;


Hey All -

Thanks for your support and dedication. We sincerely appreciate your devotion to our project, and we hope to do you proud. It may be some time before you start to hear official announcements, but we are hoping your support helps raise awareness and confidence for an updated re-release of Toonstruck.

As you are... aware, much of the game was never released due to time and budget constraints. We are evaluating the cost and time to incorporate these assets into the initial re-release. In the coming months, I will do my best to get you behind the scenes peeks into the development process.

Thanks again for your continued support, and I hope to provide you with more news soon.

Best Regards -

Keith Arem
PCB Productions

Last edited by Rosswell; 11-13-2010 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 08:16 AM   #60
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I hope this will be enough to convince adventuregamers.com that it isn't a hoax? Oh, and by the way, we've opened a Toonstruck 2-related livejournal community.
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