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Old 05-03-2010, 10:23 AM   #41
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Second: AGs don't pose intellectual challenges? I'm gonna answer you in a minute, first let me pick up my jaw from the floor and recover from my near fatal heart attack. Okay, ready now: That's exactly what they do! While other types of games pose challenge through skill. AGs pose challenges through intelligence. Posing intellectual challenges is what they're al about!
My honest opinion is that they don't. They pose as much challenge as a Prince of Persia game does with real time puzzles. Sure the "system requirements" include a human player with functional brain but nothing beyond that.

Also, other games don't require much skill either, been hearing this thing in WoW for many years. Well, I was in one of the EU-side top guilds for quite awhile, skill at what? at pushing buttons? it's just a video game, people play it as long as they have fun and that's what it's designed to give, some hours of fun.

Video Games are not Poincare's conjecture nor quantum gravity nor do they require reflexes that f16 pilots have. They're just games, I really fail to see any skill or intellectual challenges in them, they're a medium for entertainment and that's what they provide.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:25 AM   #42
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Publications in science journals do exactly that. There are quite a few people that do this in academia & research industry. This is a challenging task and by definition requires original thought. AGs are like crosswords & sudoku, if you consider crosswords to be intellectually challenging, then what can I say, I suppose you may as well label AGs as such.
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Video games are not challenging, they're just yet another way to spend one's free time having fun.
So you're saying that if something is fun, it cannot be considered a challenge? That's kind of a dumb thing to say.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:31 AM   #43
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So you're saying that if something is fun, it cannot be considered a challenge? That's kind of a dumb thing to say.
No, read better next time. I'm saying that video game are designed for providing fun, not challenge.

And no they're not challenging.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:43 AM   #44
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AGs not challenging?

Should something burn half of the brain cells to be considered challenging?
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:47 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by imisssunwell View Post
The difference being that these are professional qualifications which allot of intelligent people bother to obtain, on the other hand not that many need Myst in their CV. Anyhow, I hardly think Myst compares to a Medicine Degree or a PhD.



Publications in science journals do exactly that. There are quite a few people that do this in academia & research industry. This is a challenging task and by definition requires original thought. AGs are like crosswords & sudoku, if you consider crosswords to be intellectually challenging, then what can I say, I suppose you may as well label AGs as such.



Video games are not challenging, they're just yet another way to spend one's free time having fun.
If videogames are not challenging, then again, you should have no problem beating RHEM. Repeating "they are not challenging" does nothing to validate your claim. Saying they are "boring" does nothing to validate your claim.

You can "hardly" think it compares to getting a phd, but yet millions get PHDs. How about we use your boring=no challenge argument. I find going to school boring, so it is not challenging.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:48 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by imisssunwell View Post
No, read better next time. I'm saying that video game are designed for providing fun, not challenge.

And no they're not challenging.
They are designed to have fun IN challenging you. Especially 1st person adventures like Myst, RHEM, obsidian, Dark Fall, etc.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:04 AM   #47
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You can "hardly" think it compares to getting a phd, but yet millions get PHDs. How about we use your boring=no challenge argument. I find going to school boring, so it is not challenging.
PhD is a professional qualification much like an MD qualification, it helps people achieve career goals and get a better salary. How does that compare to video games?

It is competitive to get an MD/PhD spot in good university and demands lots of work to complete. How does that compare to a video game?

Also for the millions, if RHEM was good, then more millions would have played it, it happens with the better video games out there.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:10 AM   #48
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Anyhow, all this is getting a little off topic, I'll stick to the main topic of this thread.

If peeps like to believe that completing Myst is an IQ certificate, they can write it more if it helps them believe it themselves, I won't interfere.

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Old 05-03-2010, 11:11 AM   #49
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PhD is a professional qualification much like an MD qualification, it helps people achieve career goals and get a better salary. How does that compare to video games?

It is competitive to get an MD/PhD spot in good university and demands lots of work to complete. How does that compare to a video game?

Also for the millions, if RHEM was good, then more millions would have played it, it happens with the better video games out there.
You have 2 arguments.

1. It is boring, therefore not challenging. Getting a PHD is boring, therefore not challenging.

2. Thousands have done it, therefore it is not challenging. Millions have their PHD, therefore it is not challenging.

I can quote where you made these assertions if you'd like.
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:15 AM   #50
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On the other hand, if some elitist believes that an Ivy League admission, a PhD or the invention of the nuclear bomb are the only challenging things in life, I won't interfere.

No more off topic from me for this ridiculous argument
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Old 05-03-2010, 11:17 AM   #51
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I don't think this argument helps the thread.

That being said, imissunwell, I think you don't know the definition of challenging would be my guess, because to claim adventure games aren't challenging is...well, I don't know how you could possibly back that statement up.

Did anyone not find Riven challenging? Heck, I had to use a walkthrough for parts of TLJ, which I found challenging from time to time. Amber: Journeys Beyond was challenging, for sure, so was Blackstone Chronicles in places.

Myst definitely was. Myst III had its moments.

I can't think of a single adventure I've played, and I'm purty smart, that I didn't think was challenging. Ok, Loom wasn't.



That being said, going back to original thread, I truly believe this is the best time ever for adventure games. Even in the "glory years," in the 90s you didn't have not only this much (Heavy Rain, Sam & Max) coming from the major publishers, you also have tons of really quality independent adventures (The Whispered World, Dark Fall) also coming out. There's simply, for me, way too much to choose from. I only get to 2-3 games/year, and I don't even know where to begin. Good stuff.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:46 PM   #52
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The disturbing trend to me is toward casual portal/drm based gaming.

Casual portal/drm based games. I don't support DRM and will leave that to another discussion. Developers that are well loved such as Tex Murphy's creators have gone over to the casual type games instead of traditional adventures that I personally want to play.

I love the Blackwell series, but I would not support DRM based Emerald City Confidential... up until it was $2.99 on Steam... for 3 bucks, I figure'd who cares. The "game" was barely a game. Find sparkling object in the room, talk using all threads, move on... constant bombardment of "quests" interrupting the flow of gameplay, telling you exactly what to do next. I deleted it after less than an hour. If that is the future of adventures, I want no part of it!
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:59 PM   #53
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I haven't followed all of the discussion here because it drifted a little off topic but i got from the first page that other platforms than PC have been discussed.

How about thinking about the iPad and derivatives that will follow. I believe those would be a great opportunity to expand the base of AG users.
I reckon that a lot of the "hardware geeks" and "early adaptors" are possibly interested in AGs. Think of an easy to use touch interface, a sufficiently large screen and additional features and functions (3G, 4G, skype mphone, etc ...) and there's a formula for success.
I don't know exactly how things work there but I think Apple must have a real interest in getting good titles for the "skillet" (sorry). So I guess the developer software must be virtually free. I really don't know about those things.
I've heard quite a few people who'd love to see AGs on the iPhone but why would you go for that if you can have a decent screen? And near reasonable ratio , too.

Well, those are my two cents. What do you think of the future of gaming on the pad? I think it could open a whole new market.

Cheers, Dan.
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:45 PM   #54
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I agree with the OP. The gaming industry is very saturated and for the past few years it seems like the major game companies have done nothing but recycle their own ideas over and over again. It appears to me that recently, game developers have been trying to explore other genres and moving away from the counterproductive generic mainstream FPS titles.

I don't believe that we'll see a full revival of the classic point-and-click graphic adventure games, but it'd be plausible to expect future games to incorporate more elements from the genre. A good example would be 'Heavy Rain'. The final product of that title is an extremely polished adventure game with a few button-mashing fight sequences and a captivating plot. The sales appear to have been relatively good, specially if you take into consideration how much the average 'adventure' game sells. I wouldn't be surprised if its creators had another go at developing something similar. Hopefully it'll turn into a trend that will help traditional adventure games get back on track, though we should expect them to be slightly dumbened down and with small features that are supposed to make them attractive to younger generations and casual gamers.

Lucasarts' remakes are also worth mentioning. They're obviously trying to revive the Monkey Island series and slightly adapting them to the mainstream (an example of this would be the ability to ask for hints to solve the game's numerous puzzles).
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:27 PM   #55
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I agree with the OP. The gaming industry is very saturated and for the past few years it seems like the major game companies have done nothing but recycle their own ideas over and over again. It appears to me that recently, game developers have been trying to explore other genres and moving away from the counterproductive generic mainstream FPS titles.

I don't believe that we'll see a full revival of the classic point-and-click graphic adventure games, but it'd be plausible to expect future games to incorporate more elements from the genre. A good example would be 'Heavy Rain'. The final product of that title is an extremely polished adventure game with a few button-mashing fight sequences and a captivating plot. The sales appear to have been relatively good, specially if you take into consideration how much the average 'adventure' game sells. I wouldn't be surprised if its creators had another go at developing something similar. Hopefully it'll turn into a trend that will help traditional adventure games get back on track, though we should expect them to be slightly dumbened down and with small features that are supposed to make them attractive to younger generations and casual gamers.

Lucasarts' remakes are also worth mentioning. They're obviously trying to revive the Monkey Island series and slightly adapting them to the mainstream (an example of this would be the ability to ask for hints to solve the game's numerous puzzles).
What makes you think it is "obvious" that they are trying to revive the MI franchise? They sold the rights to Telltale so they could make money by doing nothing, and now they are remaking games with new graphics in an attempt to cash in.
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Old 05-03-2010, 03:32 PM   #56
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I haven't followed all of the discussion here because it drifted a little off topic but i got from the first page that other platforms than PC have been discussed.

How about thinking about the iPad and derivatives that will follow. I believe those would be a great opportunity to expand the base of AG users.
I reckon that a lot of the "hardware geeks" and "early adaptors" are possibly interested in AGs. Think of an easy to use touch interface, a sufficiently large screen and additional features and functions (3G, 4G, skype mphone, etc ...) and there's a formula for success.
I don't know exactly how things work there but I think Apple must have a real interest in getting good titles for the "skillet" (sorry). So I guess the developer software must be virtually free. I really don't know about those things.
I've heard quite a few people who'd love to see AGs on the iPhone but why would you go for that if you can have a decent screen? And near reasonable ratio , too.

Well, those are my two cents. What do you think of the future of gaming on the pad? I think it could open a whole new market.

Cheers, Dan.
I see the iPad as a potential market for AGs, casual games and cult remakes like Monkey Island remake or FF remake.

The problem I see with the iPad is that while I want to buy one, I don't know what to do with it. At the moment it doesn't offer too much in comparison to an iphone and also my laptop (apple) is really lightweight and it can certainly do everything the iPad does.

It is not a gaming console, it is not a mobile phone, it is not a laptop. I guess I'll just buy it and find out what to do with it later

The Dev Software is, iirc, XCode (which comes with every new mac for free, together with the OS) and the iPhone SDK, which is also free, requiring a mere registration.

So yes, it could expand the amount of games available for iPhoneOS environments but I don't expect to see it attract allot of heavy weight titles in the style of Mass Effect.

In my view iPad is sexy and a worthy gadget but I don't see it replacing my 360 as my main gaming platform.
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Old 05-03-2010, 04:36 PM   #57
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So yes, it could expand the amount of games available for iPhoneOS environments but I don't expect to see it attract allot of heavy weight titles in the style of Mass Effect.
Ah, nice time to jump in! I think this is more to the point, actually. I think ADan is exactly right in that it will attract more of the independent's and those wanting to try something different, small, unique. I used to think the iPad was absolute rubbish but now I understand - it's a target market .

No, just kidding (kind of), but I do think there's huge potential there. Sooo many people are buying them/have bought them, and from what I've experienced the apps and games seem to be what most users spend their time on. So what better place for AG's to stand out where the Mass Effect's and the God of War's don't belong? This is part of what I mean by indie developers having their 'own thing' now - they don't necessarily need to compete. They are the game that sells for far less than the console competititors and such, and are the games you find on steam, on the app store, etc. I think it's great! Where they once disappeared into obscurity in the PC aisle underneath the million copies of the next firs person shooter and WoW expansions, they now have their own pedastal to show themselves off on. It was a sad time to see the decline in AG boxes on shelves, agreed, but it's better to see them gain more success this way at least.

And as for Monkey Island, I wholeheartedly agree with it being a major positive influence. If anything, it's drawing more people into this market of AG's in digital distribution. As Jacques said, the AG's are all connected with each other, bringing more audiences back into the genre. And so what if they are cashing in on an old franchise? The games were great, they ARE bringing plenty more attention to AG's, and they're updated and adapted - as people have mentioned - to today's standard of playing AG's (which is to have hint systems, improved animation etc).

By the way, thank you to those that brought this back on topic
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:33 PM   #58
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Online stores but mostly their ability to provide a platform for episodic gaming can boost AGs (and indie games in general).

Also locked platforms do help against piracy.

Other networks like the xbox network/psn also provide a similar structure, the only advantage the iPad has is that it makes point & click intuitive, its point & touch now. I feel that without the use of a touch screen this interface belongs to the stoneage of gaming but it seems natural enough for the ipad.

My concerns are in its limitations, it memory, processor & disk space - It has little to no support for AAA+ stuff. If it is an indie only platform, is that enough for purchasing it? It will depend on the quality of indie games. E.g. indie rpg games are generally speaking of low quality and the high-budget titles are usually far better.

If the *whole* ScummVM collection got a remake (that is all old Lucasarts games) and 2-3 titles are iPad exclusive, it would do the job for me. I love these games but I just can't get into them anymore. New graphics, sounds & an intuitive control system would do what it takes.

Ragnar announcing Dreamfall chapters coming to the iPad 1 month before the PC version would make me buy all stock but that's probably not gonna happen.

It all comes down to effectiveness/cost, will the iPad manage to attract ~15 good & new games plus 3-4 exclusives? Then it should be good value/money. Of course this is about if it's worth it as a gaming platform, gadgetwhores like me will get it anyhow.

ps: My other concern is, considering clients don't really own the game anymore, will the pricing be reasonable? If online distribution is indeed the way of the future, I want rental prices, not prices which the a retail copy of the full game would cost.
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:35 PM   #59
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I don't consider Tomb Raider an AG. Allthough the latest two releases (Legend and Underworld) have certainly come close I still think there's to much emphasis on skill rather than intelligence. And I think that's what it's all about. Not whether there are action sequences in a game or not but what their purpose is.
Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that certain game publishers, media, and even gamers themselves have already classified a title like Tomb Raider as an adventure game.

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For instance in Dreamfall all the action sequences are integral to the narrative. I hugely encourage this. I mean why would you waste an action sequence on a cutscene when you can implement it in the gameplay as well? For me AGs are like interactive movies and why would you waste the action elements of movies on cutscenes.
By that thought you could then easily classify Heavy Rain as an adventure game. Almost every action and decision you make in the game IS the narrative - integral, as you put it - emphatically so because it helps steer the story by degrees. Heavy Rain is arguably one long interactive cutscene.

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That seems hardly fair. However with Tomb Raider the emphasis of the sequences lies on pasing a challenge and not on helping the story further or even greater immersion. Therefor I do not think of them as AGs. Allthough I'd have to say I'm intrigued by the fact they got advertised as AGs.
Again, you're arbitrating a certain way - one way - of looking at what makes an adventure game. Someone else could argue that without passing a challenge (like swinging across a chasm using a vine) the story cannot progress. Conversely, many adventure games feature puzzles that, by way of logic, make absolutely no sense at all in terms of the story (a cave door with a puzzle slapped on it in Journey To The Center Of The Earth, for example, or finding the elements to make a cup of coffee for Victoria's boss in Still Life). Yet they're solidly classified, at least according to your details, as adventure games.

So the question I ask wouldn't be to you in this case; it would be asked of Eidos. Which could lead to a dialogue about the idea that there could be different kinds of games that fall under the umbrella of "adventure game" - games that feature no action but only puzzles, games that include some action with puzzles, and so forth.

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It must mean the genre's getting more and more popular. I mean why would you advertise a popular franchise like Tomb Raider as a long dead genre?
That's a question you should ask publishers and gaming magazines.

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LOL! BS3? I love that game. (as you are probably well aware of) Once more the emphasis on the sequences lies on the narrative. I mean name me one movie in the vein of Broken Sword that did not involve runnign from falling rocks and villains?
What disappointed me about BS3 was that it could've been done in 2D without altering any of the puzzles at all. Charles Cecil could at least be forgiven for trying to modernize the franchise but the effect, I think, was only superficial. I would've been impressed if he had designed puzzles that can only be experienced in three dimensions. Instead we get isometric views of annoying crate moving puzzles. Sheesh!

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Also since when does GK3 include action sequences? I think this term has been used way to much over the years.
I don't remember having to directly control Gabe and navigate him through the series of potentially deadly challenges leading to the climax. But some of those challenges were timed. Maybe your idea of 'action' is tied into direct control of the character?

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As for the graphic aspect I think every game should use graphics that suits them best. For instance I'm still rooting for Monkey Island to go back to 2D (keep dreaming) but I love Broken Sword in 3D (allthough I didn't like the graphics in BS4, way to stale)
I think every game should use graphics that the developer thinks suits them best.

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By the way: I think it's really funny that TLJ was seen as the hope of the genre back in the days as it's sequal was way more unconventional than GK3.
TLJ was hyped like nobody's business. I remember a crapload of threads about it in this forum, and in general gaming sites like Gamespot and Gamespy. In the end it did very nicely not because it was a good adventure game, but because it was a good game, period.

Remember, Dreamfall also got a lot of hype. It also got a lot of controversy, here in discussions and at other adventure game forums. Many outspoken adventure gamers hated it because they thought it signaled the death of 2D point-&-clickers. Well, was it the death of 2D?

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And I do know a lot of members here play other types of games as well. But the AG's only a very small section of all gamers. Even a small section of all adventure gamers.
Tons of gamers who appreciate adventure games don't sign up to this and other adventure gaming sites. They don't care to. But the very tiny number of us who do tend to be loudmouths. LOL!

No wonder David Cage and Ragnar Tornquist and even the Rand brothers stopped listening to this "small whiny group" while producing their new titles. In the end these creators chose to DUMP the traditional 2D point-&-click puzzle paradigm behind them, in spite of what the tiny number of 2D traditionalists demanded of them (I remember an interview where Tornquist complained in passing about this vociferous group). That in part finally allowed them the freedom to create such games that offered new experiences to us - Uru, Myst V, In Memoriam, Dreamfall, Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, etc.

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PS: Just a small question I came up with last night. Is your niece's ambition of becoming a forensic scientist the result of playing, and no doubt watching, CSI as a kid?
No. She was already fascinated by pathology and such before I introduced her to crime adventure games. I augmented it by giving her books like Death's Acre: Inside the Legendary Forensic Lab the Body Farm Where the Dead Do Tell Tales by William Bass and Jon Jefferson.
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Old 05-04-2010, 12:46 AM   #60
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Of course, but that doesn't change the fact that certain game publishers, media, and even gamers themselves have already classified a title like Tomb Raider as an adventure game.

By that thought you could then easily classify Heavy Rain as an adventure game. Almost every action and decision you make in the game IS the narrative - integral, as you put it - emphatically so because it helps steer the story by degrees. Heavy Rain is arguably one long interactive cutscene.
But...but...but...i haven't played it (for earlier described reasons) but from what I've seen of it Heavy Rain is an AG! It's an AG with action sequences but I did indeed get the impression they're story driven rather than skill driven. So yes, since you just confirmed that I wholeheartedly agree Heavy Rain is an AG. I'm really sorry if I gave you the impression I dissagreed on that point. So just to get it out of the way: Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain, Dreamfall...all AGs in my opinion.

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Again, you're arbitrating a certain way - one way - of looking at what makes an adventure game. Someone else could argue that without passing a challenge (like swinging across a chasm using a vine) the story cannot progress. Conversely, many adventure games feature puzzles that, by way of logic, make absolutely no sense at all in terms of the story (a cave door with a puzzle slapped on it in Journey To The Center Of The Earth, for example, or finding the elements to make a cup of coffee for Victoria's boss in Still Life). Yet they're solidly classified, at least according to your details, as adventure games.

So the question I ask wouldn't be to you in this case; it would be asked of Eidos. Which could lead to a dialogue about the idea that there could be different kinds of games that fall under the umbrella of "adventure game" - games that feature no action but only puzzles, games that include some action with puzzles, and so forth.
Ah another misunderstanding here. If a puzzle is there for the challenge than it is an intellectual challenge something what AGs are all about in my opinion. However if an action sequence is there just for the challenge than it's a challenge of skill wich is something that doesn't belong in my definition of an AG. I't doesn't sound fair, I know but it makes sense if you look at it in terms of purpose. Besides just having a good time AGs are there to challenge you're brain. Therefore they tend to have a good story that will challenge your mind in a small way (figuring out what's going on) and lots of puzzles that will challange your mind big time. I'm talking ideal situation here of course

As for the second bit. I guess that's possible looking at games like Dreamfall and Fahrenheit and probably Heavy Rain but the emphasis of the action sequences has to be on the story rather than the challenge otherwise I wouldn't call it an AG.

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That's a question you should ask publishers and gaming magazines.
That's true. I just thought it might be good to get back to the main topic for a change.

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What disappointed me about BS3 was that it could've been done in 2D without altering any of the puzzles at all. Charles Cecil could at least be forgiven for trying to modernize the franchise but the effect, I think, was only superficial. I would've been impressed if he had designed puzzles that can only be experienced in three dimensions. Instead we get isometric views of annoying crate moving puzzles. Sheesh!
Yes but why would he? Later on you stated that every game should use the graphics that the developer thinks suits them best and I agree with you on that one. After all, no one knows the game better than the one who made it. So obviously CC thought the graphics that suited this game best were 3D, whether thay had effect on the puzzles or not. And I do think 3D had effect on them. For instance a lot of puzzles involve jumping, grabbing on to ledges and shimmying. Try doing that in 2D! However with the fourth installment the puzzles wer in fact also largely possible in 2D. But than again it's the developers call not ours. Anyway, I guess we can all agree on the fact that BS4 is crap.

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I don't remember having to directly control Gabe and navigate him through the series of potentially deadly challenges leading to the climax. But some of those challenges were timed. Maybe your idea of 'action' is tied into direct control of the character?
My idea of action is running (away from danger) fighting or shooting.

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I think every game should use graphics that the developer thinks suits them best.
See above

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TLJ was hyped like nobody's business. I remember a crapload of threads about it in this forum, and in general gaming sites like Gamespot and Gamespy. In the end it did very nicely not because it was a good adventure game, but because it was a good game, period.

Remember, Dreamfall also got a lot of hype. It also got a lot of controversy, here in discussions and at other adventure game forums. Many outspoken adventure gamers hated it because they thought it signaled the death of 2D point-&-clickers. Well, was it the death of 2D?
Nope, that's not what I'm trying to say. What I was trying to say is if all AGs like Heavy Rain become immensely popular than why would commercial company's spend money on more traditional games? Oh and I'm not a big stickler for 2D. In fact two thirds of the games I played were in 3D. Result of not being introduced to the genre untill 2003. But I like my 3D traditional any day. I'm talking games like Secret Files, Sherlock Holmes, Chronicles of Mystery etc...

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Tons of gamers who appreciate adventure games don't sign up to this and other adventure gaming sites. They don't care to. But the very tiny number of us who do tend to be loudmouths. LOL!
So you're saying I'm a loudmouth? Then you're right sir I am! Wich is probably the result of being a very quiet person in real life.

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No wonder David Cage and Ragnar Tornquist and even the Rand brothers stopped listening to this "small whiny group" while producing their new titles. In the end these creators chose to DUMP the traditional 2D point-&-click puzzle paradigm behind them, in spite of what the tiny number of 2D traditionalists demanded of them (I remember an interview where Tornquist complained in passing about this vociferous group). That in part finally allowed them the freedom to create such games that offered new experiences to us - Uru, Myst V, In Memoriam, Dreamfall, Indigo Prophecy, Heavy Rain, etc.
I'd hate to be shared among those 2D traditionalists (for obvious reason) and I truly enjoy games like Dreamfall or Fahrenhiet/Indigo Prophecy. In fact I think they're fantastic and making them should be promoted but not at the cost of more traditional games. It's just like I'm starting to get worried about the increasing popularity of cassual games especially with AG franchises being converted into cassual format. Nevertheless I still like playing cassuals. Loving something but at the same time fearing it will go at the cost of something else you love is possible. But maybe I'm wrong, we'll see.

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No. She was already fascinated by pathology and such before I introduced her to crime adventure games. I augmented it by giving her books like Death's Acre: Inside the Legendary Forensic Lab the Body Farm Where the Dead Do Tell Tales by William Bass and Jon Jefferson.
I see, now I know what I have to give my baby brother for his second birthday. No seriously way to go!

One final question. I also asked someone else but maybe you can answer this too. Do you know of Uncharted is going to get a PC release somewhere in the near future? Because you keep mentioning that game along with Tomb Raider and I love those games. And even more importantly do you know if Heavy Rain is ever going to be released for PC?

Last edited by gray pierce; 05-04-2010 at 01:45 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag
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