Do you know if frogwares are working on anything new since Jack the Ripper? Ever since the Awakened, I would say the sherlock games are my absolute favourite series, Jack the Ripper being the best.

[cbman]

Frogwares tend to have released Sherlock holmes games every couple of years. The last one was released only last year so there may still be a little while to wait.

There is a new Sherlock game on the horizon but it is for DS:

http://www.adventuregamers.com/gameinfo.php?id=1639

Frogwares also seem to be embracing the recent trend towards casual games so whether they will make another proper Sherlock Holmes game for PC at all is currently debatable.

[diego]

Although there is no official confirmation, there is a rumour that new Sherlock Holmes is in production and is called A Testament of Sherlock Holmes.

Frogwares really disappointed me with their decision to turn Dracula: Origin into casual games so let's just hope they are indeed preparing a new full-length Sherlock Holmes game and that the title doesn't suggest it's the last one

[cbman]

Originally Posted by diego

Frogwares really disappointed me with their decision to turn Dracula: Origin into casual games so let's just hope they are indeed preparing a new full-length Sherlock Holmes game and that the title doesn't suggest it's the last one

Agreed.

I've purchased Frogwares games that i didn't rate much in the past in order to support a developer that seemed commited to the Adventure game genre because there aren't that many of them. I'll no longer be doing that as long as they are taking the cheap option of producing casual games. That's not a stance, just my personal choice.

I have nothing at all against casual games; i quite enjoy some of them, but i do get a bit alarmed when commited Adventure game developers start going down that road. Even Kheops seem to heading in that direction recently. IF the casual games are supporting the development of proper games then that's all well and good.

Originally Posted by diego

Although there is no official confirmation, there is a rumour that new Sherlock Holmes is in production and is called A Testament of Sherlock Holmes.

Frogwares really disappointed me with their decision to turn Dracula: Origin into casual games so let's just hope they are indeed preparing a new full-length Sherlock Holmes game and that the title doesn't suggest it's the last one

A Testament of Sherlock Holmes sounds promising, I hope it is a full production.

I don't like this new trend of casual and episodic games. If I compare it to music, then the analogy would be something like.. I'd rather buy a whole album than a bunch of singles.

[cbman]

Originally Posted by Roman5

I don't like this new trend of casual and episodic games. If I compare it to music, then the analogy would be something like.. I'd rather buy a whole album than a bunch of singles.

I understand the appeal of episodic games to developers: i guess it is a way of financing your project as you go along, as you are recouping your costs through chapter sales, funding the develoment of the later parts. Whereas if the game was made in the traditional way they wouldn't make any money until the whole game was finished. Plus, if the funding runs out and the game doesn't get finished you would never make any money back. This way i a little safer i guess.

Plus, in the long run, if you manage to produce enough episodes then you'll probably make more money per person buying the game than you would with a one-off release (like authors who write non-standalone trilogies).

What i don't really understand so much is the willingness of the consumers to support this system. After all, they could invest a lot of money in a game that will never actually see completion. Also, don't they get frustrated having to wait for each 'chapter' to come out to continue playing the game?

Looking back at the games reviewed in 2009 by Adventure Gamers an awful lot of them are casual or episodic games (or DS games). Not good.

Oh I totally agree that economically, it's a good way for developers.

The thing is, it turns games into the equivalent of say, a multi part tv drama series or soap opera. I just think that gamers probably prefer, or at least I prefer, a full length game, kind of equivalent to one full length feature film. I want to be able to be entertained by the whole story and have the complete adventure at my fingertips, because it's more satisfying.

[Monolith]

The only gripe I have with Sherlock Holmes from Frogwares is the animation/cinematography and characters. Seriously, you need to add a bit of personality and creativity to the game just to make it feel less cold and robotic. The sherlock holmes film is a great example of how much emotion and personality can be given to such a detective.

I've seen games on smaller budgets to better.

[dekaneas297]

I hope, although I doubt it, that it won't be 3D. And Monolith is right. Too cold and robotic. Didn't like Forgware's Sherlock.

[diego]

please don't get me started with the movie. If nothing - Frogwares titles are at least hundred times better than "Sherlock and Two Smoking Barrels".

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by diego

please don't get me started with the movie. If nothing - Frogwares titles are at least hundred times better than "Sherlock and Two Smoking Barrels".

.....what? I disagree 100%. I can go down a list, but would that change an ignorant persons mind?

[Fantasysci5]

Speaking of "Sherlock Holmes", I was quite surprised after watching the newest movie to see pig heads and bodies in a factory, which reminded me so much of a scene in the "SH vs Jack the Ripper" game!

[gray pierce]

Originally Posted by Roman5

I don't like this new trend of casual and episodic games. If I compare it to music, then the analogy would be something like.. I'd rather buy a whole album than a bunch of singles.

I think episodic AGs are the best thing that ever happened to the genre since it was first invented. I'm really waiting for a non-comical episodic series. One with characters we can all care for and a deep and complicated plot with nailbiting cliffhangers. I honestly belief episodic AGs will be the TV of the future!

Originally Posted by diego

please don't get me started with the movie. If nothing - Frogwares titles are at least hundred times better than "Sherlock and Two Smoking Barrels".

I completely agree with you! Despite what I stated earlier I went to see this movie and found it the worst abomination since "Battlefield Earth" Guy Ritchie is a good(or at least okay) director but he should've kept his grubby little paws of Sherlock Holmes!

Sorry if I sound to preachy but I feel very strongly about these subjects.

Also since that is what this topic is about: Testament of SH sounds very good and I too hope very much it will not be a casual. I have nothing against casuals as long as they're not based on any Agatha Christie or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle novels. If a novel (or characters from) should be adapted into a game (and I think they should) then it should be an AG not a casual.

Originally Posted by diego

"Sherlock and Two Smoking Barrels".

Lol

[Monolith]

Yeah, the Sherlock Holmes film was horrible. It had a well rounded story with great visuals, deep characters, humor, action, adventure, and more.

It needs to be more stale with a dash of "Really, that's how it ends?" like Jack the Ripper and Arsene Lupin.

Not to mention Frogwares great attempt at Humor in jack the ripper. It was SO HILARIOUS! /sarcasm

So before you all yell at me. Please state examples of why the film was so bad. By comparison, it was the best representation of Sherlock Holmes. Not to mention, at least the story was quite compelling to the very end. Something no game has ever done.

Maybe you guys should stop protecting your stale/generic representation of Sherlock Holmes.

[HaroldO]

Originally Posted by cbman

What i don't really understand so much is the willingness of the consumers to support this system. After all, they could invest a lot of money in a game that will never actually see completion. Also, don't they get frustrated having to wait for each 'chapter' to come out to continue playing the game?

Looking back at the games reviewed in 2009 by Adventure Gamers an awful lot of them are casual or episodic games (or DS games). Not good.

It's a way of seeing it. On the other hand a lot of money is relative term, individual episodes don't tend to cost so much and usually every episode is a full and complete story part of an overarching plot that is the "season". That is not so different of game series in which individual games act as "episodes". If the season ends up not being completed you at least got to play a part of it. It might be a shorter story but it's still a full story. It can be better than spending 3 years on message boards discussing a game that turns out to become vaporware.

Become frustrated waiting a few weeks for a chapter is another way of seeing it but if the season were to released as a single game, It technically would only launch at the date the last episode would, so you would wait any way. And you can always buy and play the game when the season is already complete.

Also, for a genre that's been hailed as dead it can be a good thing to see diversity. I don't play "casuals", nothing against them, they just aren't my cup of tea. But I love episodic and DS games. If it wasn't for Hotel Dusk on the DS I would be unlikely that I started playing AG on the PC.

Originally Posted by Roman5

The thing is, it turns games into the equivalent of say, a multi part tv drama series or soap opera. I just think that gamers probably prefer, or at least I prefer, a full length game, kind of equivalent to one full length feature film. I want to be able to be entertained by the whole story and have the complete adventure at my fingertips, because it's more satisfying.

True, it make them analogous to tv series or short stories if you use the literature analogy. It's about personal preferences. And diversity can make them appeal to more people. To me some games might work better as episodic while some might do as full length.

[gray pierce]

Originally Posted by Monolith

Yeah, the Sherlock Holmes film was horrible. It had a well rounded story with great visuals, deep characters, humor, action, adventure, and more.

It needs to be more stale with a dash of "Really, that's how it ends?" like Jack the Ripper and Arsene Lupin.

Not to mention Frogwares great attempt at Humor in jack the ripper. It was SO HILARIOUS! /sarcasm

So before you all yell at me. Please state examples of why the film was so bad. By comparison, it was the best representation of Sherlock Holmes. Not to mention, at least the story was quite compelling to the very end. Something no game has ever done.

Maybe you guys should stop protecting your stale/generic representation of Sherlock Holmes.

You might say the characters in the movie were well rounded (I disagree) but they sure weren't anything like the characters from the novels! Holmes intellect had been donwsized to an absolute minimum while his fighting skills were at the center of the movie opposed being used every now and then as in the books. His relationship with Watson wasn't anything like in the books as well. I certainly did not recall Watson punching Holmes in the nose! And then there was the awfull interaction between Holmes and Adler who, I might add is nothing like in the story (A Scandal in Bohemia) as well. And finally humor? Since when is that important in a Holmes story? The Conan Doyle stories don't feature a lot of humor and nobody complains about them

And I guess that's a personal opinion but I thought the ending of Jack the Ripper was one of the the best endings ever! I liked the AL ending as well

Enough examples for you? By the way I find the games exhilarating from beginning to end. They may not be blockbusting rollercoasters but then neither are the books. In fact when I play them I get the same feeling as when I'm reading the stories I so love and cherrish and personally I found the movie extremely boring and sleep provoking!

It might have been a good movie (just not for me) if it weren't called "Sherlock Holmes" if you give a movie a title like that you attract a certain audience with certain expectations. And if you do you'd better live up to these expactations and this movie certainly didn't do that for me!

As a final note: if you don't like the games that's fine and completely understandable. After all it's all a matter of taste but then why do you keep playing them? I mean I don't like the movie but if there'll be a sequal I sure won't go and see it.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by gray pierce

You might say the characters in the movie were well rounded (I disagree) but they sure weren't anything like the characters from the novels! Holmes intellect had been donwsized to an absolute minimum while his fighting skills were at the center of the movie opposed being used every now and then as in the books. His relationship with Watson wasn't anything like in the books as well. I certainly did not recall Watson punching Holmes in the nose! And then there was the awfull interaction between Holmes and Adler who, I might add is nothing like in the story (A Scandal in Bohemia) as well. And finally humor? Since when is that important in a Holmes story? The Conan Doyle stories don't feature a lot of humor and nobody complains about them

And I guess that's a personal opinion but I thought the ending of Jack the Ripper was one of the the best endings ever! I liked the AL ending as well

Enough examples for you? By the way I find the games exhilarating from beginning to end. They may not be blockbusting rollercoasters but then neither are the books. In fact when I play them I get the same feeling as when I'm reading the stories I so love and cherrish and personally I found the movie extremely boring and sleep provoking!

It might have been a good movie (just not for me) if it weren't called "Sherlock Holmes" if you give a movie a title like that you attract a certain audience with certain expectations. And if you do you'd better live up to these expactations and this movie certainly didn't do that for me!

As a final note: if you don't like the games that's fine and completely understandable. After all it's all a matter of taste but then why do you keep playing them? I mean I don't like the movie but if there'll be a sequal I sure won't go and see it.

In terms of fighting. In The Sign of the Four, Holmes introduces himself to a prize-fighter as: “The amateur who fought three rounds with you at Alison’s rooms on the night of your benefit four years back.” McMurdo responds by saying, “Ah, you’re one that has wasted your gifts, you have! You might have aimed high, if you had joined the fancy.” In “The Adventure of the Empty House”, Holmes tells Watson how he used martial arts to overcome uber-villain Professor Moriarty at the Reichenbach Falls. He states that “I have some knowledge, however, of baritsu, or the Japanese system of wrestling, which has more than once been very useful to me.”

In terms of Intellect. Holmes is a heavy cocaine addict.

In terms of humor. You are a joke. Humor adds depth to a character. Based on how many times I talked about Depth in Character, this is the very thing that makes a character who they are. If they have no humor, the character shouldn't be stale, but cold to other characters. If a character is a coke addict and witty, they should be intelligently funny. Doesn't matter if Doyles didn't have humor, it doesn't make it any less important.

I guess its just the fanboyness coming out from you that made you think the film is so bad. You got to realize that some people have different visions for a certain subject. And in my OPINION, the film was great.

Calm it down eh Monolith, you've only been here 5 minutes.


I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. However, from what I've seen of it, it's a typical hollywood-dumbed down-in-your-face action adventure for the masses and not truly representative of sherlock holmes at all.

[HaroldO]

Originally Posted by Roman5

I haven't seen the movie yet and I'm sure I'll enjoy it. However, from what I've seen of it, it's a typical hollywood-dumbed down-in-your-face action adventure for the masses and not truly representative of sherlock holmes at all.

My thoughts exactly. And that can be great, an alternate take on a classic character. I loved Barry Levinson's Young Sherlock Holmes for that. They're not canon but can be good.