[[toj.cc]Phantom]

I agree with you thejobloshow just like I agree the Zelda isn't an RPG and is a hugely overrated game series in the first place.

[TiAgUh]

Originally Posted by Lucien21

I don't think

I know, but i was joking so chill.

Originally Posted by MoP

Well, yeah, Cage said it himself.

Reading the interview i've just remembered when he said that his game was the most mature game ever to come out, the guy's just hilarious

[Sandman]

Heavy Rain is not an adventure game !!!??? H3LL its not even a game. It's developer said 'he does not want gamers to have fun.' Well he did a great job with it. There is no application of logic, minimum puzzles and the gamer is nothing but a button pusher.

It's good to look at but the enjoyment level is very low. It has not yet convinced me to dedicate great number of hours of day to it. I just complete single scene and turn off the system. But it is good to look at and has some sort of a feeling to it.

& to say the game topped my waiting list since its announcement --- it is in several ways a disappointment.

[orient]

Originally Posted by thejobloshow

When I think of what makes an adventure game...

I think of having stopped playing Sam and Max Hit the Road for about a month because I had absolutely no idea that you could find...

I think of spending a year just to figure out how to get all 1,000 points in Leisure Suit Larry: Love for Sail...

I think of clicking every inventory object I owned on every possible prop in Discworld II because I had no idea how the logic worked in that game...

And I think of sneaking a peek on a cheats and walkthrough CD or calling a game helpline whenever I was stuck in Larry 6 or The Dig because some of the puzzles proved too confusing for my prepubescent mind...

So you mostly think of being stuck due to obscure puzzle design, basically. If Heavy Rain had segments that almost required a walk-through, pixel-hunting and ridiculous inventory-based puzzles, it would have been universally panned. It's not an adventure game because it needed to be something more than that -- something more modern and streamlined; innovative -- or people wouldn't care about it, like they don't care about 90% of the adventure games released today.

I believe traditional adventure games have a place in today's market, but only if they stop trying to emulate classic LucasArts/Sierra adventures and shed some of the baggage associated with the genre, like really tough or illogical puzzles, pixel-hunting for hotspots, filling your inventory full of crap etc. Also, pre-rendered backgrounds and 1st person slide-show games. Telltale seem to be on the right track with the upcoming Sam & Max season.

[Luther10]

Why put so much emphasis on the genre of a game? You said it yourself that you enjoyed the game, why can't you just end it right there at that point?
You think Heavy Rain is not an AG, and I think it is one. It just boils down to personal preference, and so I do respect your opinion even if we disagree.

Also, I want to ask a question of my own. Someone above mentioned something about Myst, and how he/she would choose to play it over Heavy Rain... My question is what makes Myst (a game with no character interaction and no inventory, and one learns its story through books/journals) an adventure game? And why is it more an adventure game than Heavy Rain?

Edit: Just want to add one more thing. I am super annoyed at those who have not played this game and how they always talked the loudest when its going negative...

[Thello]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Heavy Rain is not an adventure game !!!??? H3LL its not even a game. It's developer said 'he does not want gamers to have fun.' Well he did a great job with it.

I sincerely doubt he said this. Source your material or stop making it up.

Heavy Rain is a great game. It has its problems (notably plot holes and occassionally spotty V.O.), but I think it's important in a number of ways. One of the things Cage noted in a Joystiq interview was that there's a moment in the game where you're being coerced to commit a cold blooded murder. 80% of players simply couldn't do it regardless of the consequences for not going through with it. They made killing, an act extremely common in video games today, a significant event.

If that's not meaningful, I'm not sure what is. It's not a purely point-and-click adventure game, no, but it is an alternative take on the genre. The reason the majority of adventure games released today are practically unplayable is because they haven't attempted anything new in over ten years. Even shooters have seen evolution as of late (regenerating health, cover mechanics). For purists to rag on Heavy Rain for not being a "true" adventure is childish and, worse, actively contributing to the death of a genre.

[Linque]

I expect the "not want to have fun" quote here be taken savagely out of context form an interview. I remember one where they talked about the emotional impact of some of the scenes. How they want the players to attach to the characters and not want anything bad to happen to them, thus making the players feel uneasy when forced with a tough decision.

Starting to remind me about politics, this kind of assault on context.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by Thello

If that's not meaningful, I'm not sure what is.

Err... There are scenes like that in every RPG.

Originally Posted by Thello

The reason the majority of adventure games released today are practically unplayable is because they haven't attempted anything new in over ten years.

Heavy Rain is probably a worthwhile game, but the fact that you enjoy it more than traditional adventure games does not make it an adventure game.

[Luther10]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

Err... There are scenes like that in every RPG.



Heavy Rain is probably a worthwhile game, but the fact that you enjoy it more than traditional adventure games does not make it an adventure game.

I just followed the "What is an adventure game?" link in your sig and read through it. Everything that was said just makes Heavy Rain an adventure game.
Can someone please tell me why HR is not an adventure game again? Please let that someone be one who has actually played it and read that article...

[thejobloshow]

Originally Posted by Luther10

Edit: Just want to add one more thing. I am super annoyed at those who have not played this game and how they always talked the loudest when its going negative...

Then surely you can understand my annoyance at gaming writers comparing Heavy Rain to the adventure genre... because at places like Gamespot or Destructroid, adventure means point-and-click. Which is a very McLuhan way of looking at it mind you - maybe he was right; the medium is the message and adventure doesn't feel like adventure until there is some certain replication of the interface we became accustomed to and bblaaaaaaah. It's all good.

[Burns11]

Gamespot: All games> dropdown box to adventure games, hit find now. On the front page it has, first, Heavy Rain. Iit also has Lara Croft, The Godfather II, Ednless Ocean, Naruto and Mini Ninjas. So obviously to Gamespot adventure means point and click.

Destructoid is a little harder to classify, seeing as they don't really genre label games. However, looking at their heavy Rain review, they specifically mention "point and click adventure games", if to them "adventure means point and click" then that statement would be redundant.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by Luther10

I just followed the "What is an adventure game?" link in your sig and read through it. Everything that was said just makes Heavy Rain an adventure game.

That's interesting. I'd certainly love Heavy Rain to have gameplay style of the kind I described in my article. However, are you sure any of the challenges in HR can be described as puzzles? The gameplay videos I watched did suggest otherwise. Also, how much effort does it take to actually get to the end of the game with the characters alive and the identity of the murderer exposed? I heard HR accommodates almost any choices the player makes.

[RxBandits123]

Heavy Rain is definitely a hybrid game that has many elements of an adventure game. To me if you consider silent hill: shattered memories an adventure game then you would have to put heavy rain in the same category. Both games have puzzles in a sense but they dont hurt your brain, they are more streamlined to keep the pace of the story moving quickly. I mean no matter how easy and obvious some the puzzles in Heavy Rain are, such as the origami book in the hosiptal scene, they are still puzzles. Heavy rain also has "hotspots" like traditional adventure games. so:

Adventure genre:
-Hotspots
-Observational puzzles
-character interaction and dialogue choices (could also be in rpg genre)
-story is main focus
-no traditional action segments

Not in a traditional adventure game:
-QTE sections
-Moral decisions (well not to the extent

I would call the game an interactive movie but i feel that genre would fall into the adventure category. I think the problem most people have is that the moral decisions kinda take the place of traditional puzzles in this game. The QTE action segments are in a category of their own and that is also something that makes it not a straight up adventure game.

so my point is...which is what has already been said is that this is a hybrid adventure game with additional elements more aligned with your typical thriller film.
Hybrid adventure games i can think of would be: Dreamfall, SH:Shattered memories and Heavy Rain.

also to Ascovel, i read the What is an Adventure Game definition in your sig and under those rules I guess you would have to classify this title as and adventure game. And name me an rpg game that has a scene as meaningful as Heavy Rain's murder. I mean every rpg i've played consists of gameplay where you will kill hundreds of people so if there is a scene like the one in heavy rain it wont have any impact because your character literally killed 200 people before that.

[Burns11]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

However, are you sure any of the challenges in HR can be described as puzzles?

Well, off the top of my head we have:

a maze

Spoiler:

the butterfly electricity maze

A logic puzzle

Spoiler:

fail to do any of the challenges and you get a map with possible locations and have to figure out which one, you might very well consider this an inventory puzzle as well as it involves collecting the hangman style letters from each challenge to narrow down the options

another logic puzzle

Spoiler:

deducing the identity of the killer as Blake, you can both fail to gather the evidence needed as well as fail to properly analyze the evidence you have

a logic/memory puzzle

Spoiler:

As Shelby, in order to elude detection by the cops, you have to wipe down all the fingerprints you may have left in the clock/typewriter repair shop

another logic puzzle and a quasi-inventory puzzle

Spoiler:

as Madison you have to escape the back room, which involves picking up an item and using it on the opposite wall, then you have to use logic to escape the apartment, which you can do using wonky logic classic to the adventure (get in the fridge) or using better logic by climbing out the window and jumping across into the stairwell

That people try to claim there are no puzzles in Heavy Rain is a testament to the game and the developers, as it means the puzzles are so logical to the setting and integrated into the story and setting that you don't find yourself consciously saying "ok here's another puzzle". Just because it doesn't have you creating a pocket amalgam, having to haul some mundane object across 30 minutes of scenery or running into some pure puzzle mini-game doesn't mean it doesn't have puzzles.

[TiAgUh]

Originally Posted by Thello

I sincerely doubt he said this. Source your material or stop making it up.

I've read it somewhere too, Kage says alot of crazy sh.t and that's just one of many.
I just don't remember where i've read\heard it, i think it was in the IW-GT podcast, same place Shane asked him stuff about the game and he said that Heavy Rain is the most mature game there is (this gen or ever i just don't remember).

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Thello

I sincerely doubt he said this. Source your material or stop making it up.

http://relyonhorror.com/content/heav...ayers-have-fun

[Linque]

As I said, violently taken out of context. The guy is french so his English isn't perfect, so what he meant with that line is what I posted above.

For the lazy:
"...they want the players to attach to the characters and not want anything bad to happen to them, thus making the players feel uneasy when forced with a tough decision."

By not having fun he didn't mean to not enjoy.

[AprilLives]

It’s weird how Heavy Rain seemed like a fantastic adventure game the first time I played it and now (after playing again) it does not.

The first time around, I knew nothing about what was going to happen or what to expect as each mysterious event unfolded. The characters are interestingly flawed, giving some the best performances I’ve seen. The music is fitting and the scenes so realistic I was completely immersed in the areas I explored. The story is original, detailed and complete. I loved the moral choices. These in a way are the puzzles.

But now that I’ve played it again and recognize that it still IS a fantastic game that I’ll keep on my favorite list, it no longer appeals as adventure. While I marvel at the technology and appreciate the art and plot, (which has a few forgivable holes), it really is an interactive movie that provides little opportunity to contemplate, explore and solve.

Rather, it requires quick thinking and timed action over and over again. I expect and actually enjoy some stress and feeling threatened in adventure but in this game none of the characters succeed without timed combat. To me, that’s just stressful and NOT adventure.

[Gamegirl]

I am in the midst of playing Heavy Rain and I must say I absolutely adore it. I don't know what genre this game is and I couldn't care less. The characters are so intriguing and I can't wait to see what happens next. If a game interests me that's all that matters, I don't care what kind of game it is.

[Intrepid Homoludens]

Originally Posted by Gamegirl

I am in the midst of playing Heavy Rain and I must say I absolutely adore it. I don't know what genre this game is and I couldn't care less. The characters are so intriguing and I can't wait to see what happens next. If a game interests me that's all that matters, I don't care what kind of game it is.

I LOVE YOU for that!!!! WIN.