[Jackal]

Originally Posted by Fien

Well, I think, feel, believe, insinuate (my very own personal opinion, mind you) that AG and its chief editor have a pretty good idea where the adventure genre is heading. Just like Gameboomers with its Casual Forum.

Well, sure, I even wrote about the "casual invasion" many months ago. I knew the landscape would change, and it has. But landscapes change all the time, and that's the important thing to remember. The current landscape isn't the final one either.

Where I think the genre is heading is towards more diversity than we've ever had before, not where one thing replaces another. Snack food doesn't replace meals. There's room for both, and a need for both. Right now many are gorging on the snack games, which seems to make others nervous, but that trend will settle down when it hits a saturation point, as it inevitably will. And the games themselves are already starting to evolve, as seen in the reviews we've started to do.

The pricing issue is indeed a bigger and much more dangerous threat to full-fledged adventures. But that's an entirely different matter, and it'll resolve itself in time. There's always a bit of floundering at first in uncharted territory. Ironically, it may be casual games that solve the problem first. Big Fish itself has all but admitted it can't afford to sell (its own) bigger, more meaningful games at $7 a shot, and a two-tiered pricing scheme is already on its way in (not officially, but the groundwork is being laid).

As to why we're covering casual games, well, it's because we're dealing with the genre as it is, not the way we wish it was. If we're responsible for anything, hopefully it's encouraging more adventure elements in casual games, which actually seems to be happening.

[Lee in Limbo]

*applauds Jackal*

[J.H]

I've played one or two casual games but not for long, they just don't grip me like an AG does.

[rtrooney]

It's interesting that one of the main things players use to differentiate a "real" adventure game from a casual game is the HOG element.

Every inventory-based game is a HOG. The objects just may not all appear on the same screen. And let us not forget true pixel-hunt puzzles such as the mural puzzle in Post Mortem. HOG in the extreme!

I'm guessing that many AG Players who find themselves gravitating to casuals are doing so because of the criticisms we all have been leveling at AG developers for years.

Not the least of which is "Arbitrarily extended game play."

I've not given up on the AG genre as most people think of it. But, I haven't run across a "must play" AG in the last five months.

I'm sure there will be a "Top Ten" or "Best Games of the Decade" poll coming out soon. I have my own list, and it averages out to less than one really great game per year. That's what drives people to Casual Games. At least that's what drove me to them. What do you do the other eleven months of the year?

I play something short, usually under six hours total playing time. Graphically exciting, unlike several recent AGs. And, interestingly enough, with a compelling storyline. See above for the unlike. (Did anyone other than myself find the Dire Grove storyline more compelling that Still Life 2?) And you get all this for an average price of $6.99US.

[Sughly]

Although I don't play any of these so called casual games, I did play Drawn and, for someone who finds artwork and presentation a big factor in adventures, enjoyed it more than most games I played this year. That's not to say I prefer casual games, but like someone mentioned previously it's a matter of the quality of character and story and writing that's in adventures of recent. Drawn's story was simple but had me pushing on, and the world it gave me was better than most I've been given elsewhere.

Also, I think pointing the finger at AG over casual games is stupid.

Originally Posted by rtrooney

Did anyone other than myself find the Dire Grove storyline more compelling that Still Life 2?.

I didn't play Dire Grove myself, but I would say I found a lot of things more compelling. Such as the unistallation process of Still Life 2 after a day's play.

EDIT: I think to clarify my point, and only speaking for myself, a casual game in this instance has only been something to turn to because there's been nothing better in the adventure department. It's not my plan to give up on adventure and dedicate myself to casuals, I'm just finding something to help me along to a decent title.

[rtrooney]

Originally Posted by Sughly

It's not my plan to give up on adventure and dedicate myself to casuals, I'm just finding something to help me along to a decent title.

On that we agree.

[cwapitm]

I've never really played a causal or HOG before, so I might try some out for the new year. It seems like something I could enjoy, especially if I'm out of adventure games to play at the moment.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

Confirm what? That we're the masterminds behind the increasing popularity of the casual adventures? I hope I misunderstood you.

You most certainly did. Read my posts again and you'll see that I said that many many many adventuregamers are moving away from adventures and turning to casual games. Both you and Colpet are prime examples and, like you said, for different reasons although you both are dissatisfied with the current adventures. As are countless others. You're right in one thing though. I do not understand people who claim that casual games have better stories than adventures. Or better/harder puzzles, or better characters. Casuals are lite in every aspect.

[...]please, do not make my words some sort of editorial policy, because that may be the dumbest thing ever. I'm serious.

I'm dead serious too. YOUR words some sort of editorial policy?? Huh? Please do NOT put words in my mouth. Thank you.

Both Deadwolf and you are insinuating that I was insinuating when I have been nothing of the kind. I have posted about casual games many times, here in the forums and in the Review comments and I have never made any bones about being dead against the casuals taking over. My opinion of AG's position should be crystal clear. But all of a sudden I am perceived as "insinuating"? What on earth is going on here? Maybe I should go apologize to Gameboomers as well for "insinuating" that they have a special forum for Casuals?

PS: Come to think of it, maybe I should also apologize to the casual game sites for "insinuating" that they are responsible for the lower traffic at the AG adventure forum....?

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Well, sure, I even wrote about the "casual invasion" many months ago.

And now we have the editor coming over to explain his position. Mea culpa. Bad, bad, "insinuating" Fien.

Yes, I remember that blog very well. I also remember that I posted my opinions on the subject even BEFORE that blog.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by Fien

And now we have the editor coming over to explain his position. Mea culpa. Bad, bad, "insinuating" Fien.

Uh, yes, you mentioned me specifically, so I explained my position for people that don't know it. Including you, apparently, since it isn't the same as yours.

Whatever you were or weren't insinuating, which makes no difference either way, I simply agreed with you that I saw things moving this direction so far. I don't at all agree that casual games jeopardize the genre's longterm future or have taken over anything. We'd all still be playing FMV or Myst clones if the latest fad meant the end of all else. I think casual games present some challenges for traditional adventure developers (as do several other issues), but personally I welcome the diversity.

Incidentally, I think that more social networking options like Facebook and Twitter and blogs have more to do with forum dropoff than anything. AG's main site traffic is pretty steadily growing higher than ever, so the interest in the genre itself isn't waning.

[Fien]

Originally Posted by Jackal

Uh, yes, you mentioned me specifically, so I explained my position for people that don't know it. Including you, apparently, since it isn't the same as yours.

I am certainly doing a bad job of communicating my opinion. My apologies.
So let me state unequivocally that I did not mean to imply in any way, in this thread or elsewhere, that you have ever shared my views on the subject. I know you don't. Not in the early days of the Rise of the Casuals and not now.

[Lee in Limbo]

*sigh*

I see the new thread has been hijacked. Ah well.

Getting back to the original post, to tell the truth, the only casual games I've played this year have been Squinky's indie shorts. I simply haven't had time or money to invest in much this year. I haven't even been playing much in the way of MMOs lately, though earlier in the year, I spent a fair bit of time playing World of Warcraft with my friends.

I may be looking into the titles that have been bandied about recently, though. It might make a nice change from the AGs I keep loading up and not finishing.

But it should be said that I haven't given up on AGs. It's just time for change. Again.

[3rdFloor]

Originally Posted by Jackal

But landscapes change all the time, and that's the important thing to remember. The current landscape isn't the final one either.

As to why we're covering casual games, well, it's because we're dealing with the genre as it is, not the way we wish it was.

I admire your ability to clearly explain your point of view, Jackal. That post was as coherent as it was interesting. You make me wish I had more time to practice my written English.

Originally Posted by Fien

Both Deadwolf and you are insinuating that I was insinuating when I have been nothing of the kind.

Fien, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to offend you or anything. In retrospect, it would appear my native tongue (French) gets in the way sometimes.

By saying "Right... need I say more" on the first page, I thought perhaps you held a gripe against this website for publishing reviews of casual titles that made some players, such as myself, want to try them out, which in turn means that the traditional adventure genre is losing customers in the long run. I didn't like the idea of condemning such a wonderful website as this one, that's all.

Now I see all you meant to say was the adventure genre is losing many potential buyers, and you were definitely not trying to accuse anything or anyone. You were merely stating a fact.

[rtrooney]

Originally Posted by Lee in Limbo

*sigh* I see the new thread has been hijacked. Ah well.

Yes it has. And it seems to be one individual that does it time and time again. Don't know how to remove him from an otherwise good conversation.

[Fien]

Deadwolf, I should have realized that it wasn't meant as an insult, you are not that kind of person, so please don't apologize.

Yes it has. And it seems to be one individual that does it time and time again. Don't know how to remove him from an otherwise good conversation.

Heh. Here, let me help you.
Click on your User CP. Go to your control panel. Find your Ignore List and put that individual's name on the list. Simple comme bonjours. Bye bye!

[rtrooney]

No names were mentioned. How did you know?

[Fien]

Know what?

[Melanie68]

This exchange stops here. Take it to PM if you need to continue it.

[Mohlin]

I would rather call myself a "casual player". I haven't dedicated my playing to a certain genre, if the game is enjoyable - I'll play it. As long as I don't have to shoot someone, as long as I don't die it's fine by me.
Which so far has put me in the AG, HOG and solitair game section.

[nonax]

I'm a sort of casual player. I mostly like the hidden object games. Started with them a few years ago and play them very regularly. Just click away all those objects without thinking is very relaxing! I'm not always in the mood for thinking and solving, I already have to do that at work. The other casual game genres like bejeweled and time management are not my thing though.
I am also not sure about the new adventure elements in the latest HOG games, like Return to Ravenhurst and Dire Grove. They aren't casual enough anymore, you need to think, can get stuck, have to travel a lot. I realised I got most pleasure from finding a HOG spot! For adventures these titles have a little to shallow stories and backtracking imo. The graphics are good, but for the travelling it is just to simplistic, way to less images.
Great thing about the casual games is that most of them can be played free for an hour. This helps greatly on deciding on the buy.