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-   -   Sam & Max 2010 (https://adventuregamers.com/archive/forums/adventure/25970-sam-max-2010-a.html)

Hol 01-08-2010 09:27 AM

I agree with you guys, Telltale could do so much more with their 3D - just because it's a cartoon-style doesn't mean it has to be poor quality. For example, look at this from ZBrush Central:

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...int/batman.jpg

Admittedly this isn't a game-res model but it shows that cartoon 3D CAN be done well. I would love to see Telltale spending a bit more effort on the 3D and really doing these amazing intellectual properties some justice.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing Telltale's stuff and believe that graphics aren't the most important thing in games, however am I asking too much to want both great stories, characters, humour, gameplay AND graphics?

I just can't help it, I want it all perfect XD

Idrisguitar 01-08-2010 04:04 PM

you have to factor in the fact that adventure games have a limited audience these days.

it would do telltale no good to make their graphics even slightly demanding on some PCs, as that would lower their audience even more.

they need their target audience to be as big as possible, and the erratic nature of one pc to the other is one of the biggest strains on that.

kadji-kun 01-08-2010 08:58 PM

No doubt some amazing stuff can be done if they pushed the graphics to the limit, but remember, Telltale is trying to make the game as accessible as possible to everyone. That means Small Download Size, Common Technological Hardware, and Ease of Use. This almost makes their games follow the "Casual" game category.

I honestly would love to see someone use the UDK just to replicate the Telltale Sam and Max games with amazing visuals. By amazing, I don't mean excessive use of Bloom, Really Reflective Surfaces, Plastic looking characters, etc. I think if a bored Art Director helped out, then things might look right.

tabacco 01-08-2010 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hol (Post 535282)
I agree with you guys, Telltale could do so much more with their 3D - just because it's a cartoon-style doesn't mean it has to be poor quality. For example, look at this from ZBrush Central:

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/w...int/batman.jpg

Do you genuinely want a sam and max game with that level of detail? Bear in mind that while Steve's comics are heavy on the detail, they're heavy on environmental detail, which is a very different thing indeed. Personally, I think applying that kind of look (even more stylized) to the games would look terrible. It's adding visual detail (and locking out a pretty big sector of the market with lower end hardware) for absolutely zero payoff and ultimately to the stylistic detriment of the game.

kadji-kun 01-09-2010 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco (Post 535341)
Do you genuinely want a sam and max game with that level of detail? Bear in mind that while Steve's comics are heavy on the detail, they're heavy on environmental detail, which is a very different thing indeed. Personally, I think applying that kind of look (even more stylized) to the games would look terrible. It's adding visual detail (and locking out a pretty big sector of the market with lower end hardware) for absolutely zero payoff and ultimately to the stylistic detriment of the game.

I think he's peaking of polygonal detail and better shaders. (Ambient Occlusion, Rim Shading, Real-Time Lighting, Higher Poly Models [Current Models are REALLY low poly]).

Team Fortress 2 visuals looks far better than Sam and Max while keeping the cartoon-like visuals.

Honestly, we want the game to look exactly the way it does in the CG cinematic trailers for the each season.

http://www.telltalegames.com/videos/...asontwotrailer

Hol 01-09-2010 04:03 AM

I was just showing the extreme end of what could be achieved - not saying that Telltale would have to go anywhere near that far but just a few more steps in that direction would look great and wouldn't be of much detriment to people, even with lower-end pcs.

A few extra polygons and higher resolution textures here and there really wouldn't harm that much - and I'm sure would still run on the vast majority of pcs.

I like the idea of seeing them as casual games though - compared to the abominations out there in casual sector Telltale's stuff is such a treat! lol >_<

Thinking about it - they have come a long way from s&m s1 and kudos for that. I think the series I prefered the most from a visual point of view was the wallace & gromit one. What about you guys?

kadji-kun 01-09-2010 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hol (Post 535351)
Thinking about it - they have come a long way from s&m s1 and kudos for that. I think the series I prefered the most from a visual point of view was the wallace & gromit one. What about you guys?

Absolutely. Everytime I looked at the character models in the game, I kept thinking about how good they looked. Almost as if they were made out of clay, which is a tough feat.

With W&G and TOMI, I have a feeling that S&M Season 3 will be extraordinary.

tabacco 01-09-2010 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadji-kun (Post 535343)
Honestly, we want the game to look exactly the way it does in the CG cinematic trailers for the each season.

http://www.telltalegames.com/videos/...asontwotrailer

Yes, I know the trailer, but I think you may not realize the massive amount of effort that went into achieving it. That trailer was the product of multiple animators over a couple of weeks animating by day and borrowing whatever computers they could overnight to build an impromptu render cluster. Then the whole thing was edited and processed through after effects to achieve some of the glow and blur effects.

It's not just a matter of some secret toggle in the renderer that says 'make this look nicer', and it's certainly not something you're ever going to see happening on a monthly release schedule.

fov 01-09-2010 02:08 PM

Doug's right about the trailer, and it's unlikely that the new games will look just like that. But the upgrades that have been made to the engine since the last Sam & Max game shipped almost two years ago definitely will have an impact on the look of the new Sam & Max games. After everything that was done to Telltale's tool for Wallace & Gromit, no way is it going to look exactly like Season Two did.

...Freeclay Police, anyone?

*dodges barrage of rotten tomatoes*

Henke 01-09-2010 04:18 PM

Am I the only one who thinks that the graphics in the Telltale games are great in pretty much the way they are? :P

Erwin_Br 01-09-2010 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fov (Post 535424)
Doug's right about the trailer, and it's unlikely that the new games will look just like that. But the upgrades that have been made to the engine since the last Sam & Max game shipped almost two years ago definitely will have an impact on the look of the new Sam & Max games. After everything that was done to Telltale's tool for Wallace & Gromit, no way is it going to look exactly like Season Two did.

...Freeclay Police, anyone?

*dodges barrage of rotten tomatoes*

Whatever they did with the engine, it payed off. I immediately noticed the improvements when playing W&G. :9~

tabacco 01-09-2010 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henke (Post 535437)
Am I the only one who thinks that the graphics in the Telltale games are great in pretty much the way they are? :P

Nope, I think they look great. But adventure fans aren't happy unless they're complaining about something :)

kadji-kun 01-09-2010 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco (Post 535397)
Yes, I know the trailer, but I think you may not realize the massive amount of effort that went into achieving it. That trailer was the product of multiple animators over a couple of weeks animating by day and borrowing whatever computers they could overnight to build an impromptu render cluster. Then the whole thing was edited and processed through after effects to achieve some of the glow and blur effects.

It's not just a matter of some secret toggle in the renderer that says 'make this look nicer', and it's certainly not something you're ever going to see happening on a monthly release schedule.

I know exactly how such effects are accomplished. I'm not saying telltale SHOULD make the games like it. I'm just pointing out how Sam & Max can look like it should, while coordinating with Hol's post.

Let me also say this. There may not be a secret toggle, but I have worked with game design long enough to say that such effects can be done in real-time. Some easily accomplished in the Unreal Engine. Sure, we aren't at the stage of producing perfect depth of field, but if you read my post. I pointed out various shaders that can be used to accomplish what was seen in the trailer.

Yet in an attempt to demean my post, you insult me with the poorly chosen words "Secret Toggle", ignoring the fact that I supplied enough information that has nothing to do with an easy process.

I also had a hand in helping out Valve on the Team Fortress 2 Sniper video. It takes a lot of work, but it was all done in-engine. Sure, such features like High Quality Motion Blur and 24pass Depth of Field requires the engine to render out the frames, but beside that, everything seen in the video can be seen in real-time. I didn't want to go there, but everything in that S&M trailer is more than possible, except for the really high AntiAliasing, HQ Depth of Field, Excessive Poly Count, and HQ Motion Blur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco (Post 535446)
Nope, I think they look great. But adventure fans aren't happy unless they're complaining about something :)

Yet, even I never said the graphics looked like shit. I even went out of the way to say they look good.

tabacco 01-09-2010 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kadji-kun (Post 535452)
I know exactly how such effects are accomplished. I'm not saying telltale SHOULD make the games like it. I'm just pointing out how Sam & Max can look like it should, while coordinating with Hol's post.

Let me also say this. There may not be a secret toggle, but I have worked with game design long enough to say that such effects can be done in real-time. Some easily accomplished in the Unreal Engine. Sure, we aren't at the stage of producing perfect depth of field, but if you read my post. I pointed out various shaders that can be used to accomplish what was seen in the trailer.

Yet in an attempt to demean my post, you insult me with the poorly chosen words "Secret Toggle", ignoring the fact that I supplied enough information that has nothing to do with an easy process.

I also had a hand in helping out Valve on the Team Fortress 2 Sniper video. It takes a lot of work, but it was all done in-engine. Sure, such features like High Quality Motion Blur and 24pass Depth of Field requires the engine to render out the frames, but beside that, everything seen in the video can be seen in real-time. I didn't want to go there, but everything in that S&M trailer is more than possible, except for the really high AntiAliasing, HQ Depth of Field, Excessive Poly Count, and HQ Motion Blur.

Yet, even I never said the graphics looked like shit. I even went out of the way to say they look good.

Dude... nobody's demeaning your post or you personally. Relax. I'm glad you realize the amount of effort that goes into making videos, and I'm glad that Unreal Engine and the Source Engine are capable of a style you enjoy, but I'm telling you you're not going to get that from Telltale's games. If that angers you so much, then I'm sorry.

kadji-kun 01-09-2010 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabacco (Post 535455)
Dude... nobody's demeaning your post or you personally. Relax. I'm glad you realize the amount of effort that goes into making videos, and I'm glad that Unreal Engine and the Source Engine are capable of a style you enjoy, but I'm telling you you're not going to get that from Telltale's games. If that angers you so much, then I'm sorry.

Doesn't anger me at all. :) As I stated before. I'm quite satisfied with the style Telltale offers.

Just like to point out how the game can evolve in the near future. For all we know, such visuals may be common place in two-four years.

skeeter_93 01-11-2010 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henke (Post 535437)
Am I the only one who thinks that the graphics in the Telltale games are great in pretty much the way they are? :P

I love the Telltale graphics! I was (and still am) perfectly happy with S1 and 2 graphics... Can't wait for S3!

Jake 01-14-2010 10:28 AM

Fact: The new Sam & Max will have visual improvements above Season Two, and above Monkey Island and W&G as well. We're always improving our rendering engine between projects, and this one is no exception. However, whether or not it equals what you have in your head depends on you.

TheWorld 01-16-2010 03:13 AM

Actually i liked a lot the graphics in the first two seasons of sam & max. There were always a lot of details in the environments.
I really hope telltale is gonna reach teh same quality level of those games. Some of the episodes where as good as classic adventure games. I still think sam & max is the best telltale series.

Bad Asp 01-16-2010 07:49 PM

How about when it comes to sound? Will there be improvements over the first two seasons in sound quality?

Trumgottist 01-17-2010 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henke (Post 535437)
Am I the only one who thinks that the graphics in the Telltale games are great in pretty much the way they are? :P

When I played season one, I was very impressed by the graphics. The animations in particular, as we were far from spoiled with good animation in adventure games at the time and Telltales characters really came alive.

I predict that I won't be as impressed with season three (graphically) even though it will have great improvements. This is because I'm now used to playing Telltale games, so while I think it's looking good it's much more difficult for them to blow me away. (I'll of course be very happy if I'm proved wrong.) Luckily, blowing me away, isn't a requirement for enjoyment.


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