[Aubstopper]

Originally Posted by RockNFknRoll

OK I finished SH vs JR last night. I liked the little tie-in at the end.

I'm a bit disappointed though, I don't think it's quite as good as the last two. The bottom line is that you'd think a legendary adversary like Jack the Ripper would make this the most epic game yet, and it's just not. I played it almost straight through though, in just a few sessions, never getting bored. So it IS worth playing.

I stand by my statement that the puzzles were largely too easy. I was shocked by how many could be solved by trial and error, a couple of times I did this and didn't even know why I just solved it....that should never happen. Some of them just didn't make a lot of sense either, or seemed unnecessarily forced and not integrated with the story. Some of them were good though.

The hand-holding in the game was annoying to me, too. "Let's go to the cobbler's!", "Take out the map and go to _______", "here's the plan: ______, just fetch me these items." Let ME figure that stuff out! I hate when games give you the answers or the next step up front or make it TOTALLY obvious, and then just make you do the leg work to get there. It's one of the major problems I've had with AGs of this decade. It's also one of the things I really wasn't expecting from this game, as the last ones had a nice hands-off challenge to them and that's why I liked them.

Another problem I have with the game is the atmosphere just isn't there how it should be. The graphics are good, but I didn't feel a hint of dread or creepiness or suspense or real Whitechapel or anything. It was pretty sterile, and the events that happen and the scenes along with them weren't powerful. For the story of Jack The Ripper, you want to really feel the horror and atmosphere, and connection to history.

There was way too much retreading, and no change of scenery whatsoever. It's the same places the whole game, the only difference being time of day, everything else being precisely the same. Just back and forth.

All in all, it just fell far short of expectations. However it's still worth getting, and there's a lot going right with it as it is within the same ballpark as the other games. I just wanted to get these complaints off my chest.

I agree with this....

adding on to that though, some of my gripes included them not translating everything..the dear boss letter literally said 'cher patron' and i remember once instance when you pick up a note...when it's posted on the bulletin board it's in french then when it's added to your notes it's in english...argg

There were some instances where i was not convinced about their research on the jews of england in the late 19th century and also some of the yiddish/hebrew letter stuff....but then again, i'm being overly picky most likely because i'm currently in a class on jewish history in europe during that period and because i know hebrew...

anyway...i really did like this game..i had a good time and loved the new system that was introduced...the atmosphere was not quite there, but i would be lying if i didn't say that i spent most of the last week on my laptop playing it :-)

[mgeorge]

I just finished the demo and really liked it. Graphics are good, and Whitechapel suitably grimy. As to the difficulty I like the idea that you guys think it's to easy, as I'm not the brightest star in the universe when it comes to puzzles. Although.

Spoiler:

I already had to use a walkthrough for the briefcase puzzle. How are you supposed to know the sequence? You're really not given any clue that I can find.

If there is a clue I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know where it is.

I hope there aren't to many of those type puzzles in the game.

I really liked the deduction board and think it's a good idea and for someone like myself, but let me ask this. Are there any physic based puzzles? I remember The Awakened had a couple and I really enjoyed them. I also enjoyed the chase sequence in The Awakened. Anything similar in this game?

Thanks.

[diego]

where there is no option to go to the inventory to search for clues while in puzzles, then all the clues are within the puzzle itself. so, the puzzle you mentioned has a solution that is more likely if u think logically then other possible combinations.

as for deduction board, its a kind of step down to a previous titles. now u can solve it with trial and error and clicking without need to search for hints in dialogs and inventory. the quiz method was much better and they should have upgrade in that direction. also, there is no more puzzles that have you typing the solution that was a very refreshing retro-style like, and something that was unique amongst todays adventure games where there is little or no variety of puzzles. mistake by programers if u ask me, and while im there, i should really like to whine a little more and point to one more thing - Game is pretty good optimized, but there is a frequent need of change of locations while you are at the Whitechapel District, for instance, and designers are not helping it, with i gotta say stupid loading system. to explain it - look at this plain map of the District



as you can see, its devided into 2 separate areas with 2 separate loading times - a big area, which represents all of Whitechapel streets, and smaller ones, with many small areas like Police Station, Pet Shop, or any other indoor location which is a part of the District but has a separate loading time when u step in. The black dots represent the spawning points for where u turn up once u click on a map to go to desired indoor location. So, we are assuming here that u r not walking all the time which could be really boring, but moving by clicking on map. As you can see, when you click to go to location, you are not in building, but rather outside of it, and still in the Streets area. Now, look at this approximate loading-time graph



basically, loading for streets area is like 10th times bigger then for smaller locations. so, when you are in the police station, and you wanna go to the pet shop because u have business there, this is what is going on - you click on a map pointing to pet shop, but instead of being in the pet shop you are being diverted outside, with a bigger loading time, because game is loading all the streets with a houses, people.. that are not necessary to u because u wanted to go to the pet shop. now, its getting even more interesting, because u still have to go inside. so, we finally step in pet shop but there goes loading again. luckily, this time its quicker (as should be in the first place). but now, imagine if u had to go from place to place much frequently. lets say u wanna do this route - police station - pet shop - police station - pub - brothel.

so, between changing locations, there will be always annoying loading of the whole Whitechappel area, and still the necessary loading for the actual buildings that you wanted to enter. well, that would be 4 (longer) + 4 (smaller) loadings to get to Brothel place, instead of just 4 quicker loadings. by the time, lets say, Watson gets to the brothel at last, he would be in a need of instant massage recovery. (not that he planned to)

its not the loading time itself which is the problem, its tested on an ok specs but rather more frequent visits and jumping from location to location, not to mention if u r stuck and want to revisit them quickly, and the game is always loading the area that u didnt want to go at the moment. ok, i think i strangled you enough with this (no pun intended)

as for 3rd person mode, frogwares showed they are listening to the gamers and customers, despite the controls being a little clumsy. also, graphic is well detailed, as you can see for instance in the pet shop with all the sound effects in background, and also at the streets with a carriages humping and people yelling. but regardless of good technical aspect, its lacking again in therms of some more immersion and Sherlock-like feeling, with a Baker street serving only as a location for session deductions, without lady Hudson again, and inspector Lestrade for that matter, and other details to serve the purpose. I think i watch TV series too much..

However, i think the story is the strongest part of game, in style of Kubrick or Polanski mystery - thrillers, with a solid dialogs. Authors have done research regarding historical aspect, alleys, jewish quarters and others. Also, voice actors for lead characters are great, above avarage adventure games. Logic puzzles are not bad, but some of them are too obvious, such as the last one that is without suspense because we would already know who is murderer. (i m not telling you). inventory documents are typical for a series, with combining of items and not that great inventory-based puzzles, which are not demanding knowing that u dont have that much items. the enviroments are not that rich in therms of interactions, and game is often telling you where to go next which can feel a little too casual, also, you can show all the hotspots now, which has its good and bad sides, but thats for another talk.

What to play?

Ripper theme - Jack the Ripper (2004) - somewhat interesting title, havent played it through, american version of the Ripper, interesting setting but with clumsy interface, The Ripper - Christopher Walken and others in a classic FMV mid 90's adventure, mix of cyberpunk detective work and interactive movie with mini games and hard puzzles that preceded the Black Dahlia game, Jack the Ripper (1995) - even tougher, a little ahead of its time, mix of reading and researching with a real time exploring, complicated for starters and not that spectacular in graphics, but good in atmopshere

Sherlock theme - EA and Mythos "Case of the Serrated Scalpel" and "Rose Tattoo", often regarded as most faithful, both with a lots of text descriptions of the locations and well thought stories, the older one in a classic, traditional inventory based, the newer with fmv actors and bunch of dialogs, Frogwares series - "The Case of the Silver Earring" being closest to the roots and classic Agatha-like stories, the others you can try if u like specific theme like hunted house "7th Guest" theme - Mystery of the Mummy (first one in series, a little rough but ahead of its sequels in some terms of Sherlockian experience), horror-cthulhu theme - Awakened which has remastered version with 3rd person view also, or Sherlock vs Arsene Lupin with being the most advanced in therms of a puzzles but lacking the dynamics and simplicity at the same time, with having Sherlock running like in a First Person Shooter game across the however, well designed and known locations such as museum, Palace, courtyards...

[RockNFknRoll]

oh yeah, i encourage everybody to use 1st person mode. 3rd person mode takes all of the immersion out of it, imo. i like traditional adventures, but something about 1st person really works well for these sherlock games, it's how 1st person adventures should be done. you actually walk and look around and find the clues yourself. much better.

[Mikane Zaprick]

...1st person really works well for these sherlock games, it's how 1st person adventures should be done.

Yes.

1st person is definitely the way to go when you are going for 1st person.

[RockNFknRoll]

Originally Posted by Mikane Zaprick

Yes.

1st person is definitely the way to go when you are going for 1st person.

[tarspoon]

I really like Sherlock Holmes games serie but 'Jack the Ripper' is such a disappointment. This game is boring, terribly boring. The plot, dialogs, puzzles (too simple compaired to 'The Nemezis's puzzles) are BORING.
I finished the game and now I think I'll give it to this rude guy at my workplace as a birthday gift. He deserves it.

[Schneckchen ^.^]

I really liked this game because it seemed to be very historically accurate so it was really interesting. Gameplay wise, there did seem to be a bit much errand running but the mostly easy puzzles were a nice change from the previous game. In Sherlock Holmes Nemesis I had to use the walkthrough for almost every puzzle. That was just annoying. And contrary to apparently everyone else's opinion here, I loved the atmosphere. I say the game was better than Nemesis and almost (but not quite) as good as Awakened.

[tastebud]

Originally Posted by tarspoon

I really like Sherlock Holmes games serie but 'Jack the Ripper' is such a disappointment. This game is boring, terribly boring. The plot, dialogs, puzzles (too simple compaired to 'The Nemezis's puzzles) are BORING.
I finished the game and now I think I'll give it to this rude guy at my workplace as a birthday gift. He deserves it.

while i dont want to argue with you, i am sort of surprised by the differing views here. i love the game and the fact that it sticks so close to the facts. it seems like a real investigation and its leagues better than lupin in my opinion. however i can see where youre coming from as well. im a sucker for historical accuracy and fact checking though. when playing the game i always tab back and forth between the game and the ripper website to fact check

http://www.casebook.org/

[tarspoon]

tastebud
Yeah, I read the history facts a long time ago. And I already knew some plot twists while playing.

Spoiler:

Like 'the boss' letter, chalk message, or that Tumblety was not a killer because he is gay and they just do not care about female prostitutes.

Game IS pretty aqurate. But still boring. Was there no way to give history aquracy plus interesting game process? Maybe I ask too much.

[mgeorge]

tastebud. Maybe it isn't really a physic based puzzle in the Awakened, (seemed to me it was), but I recall a warehouse where there is a trapdoor on the floor that you have to access. You have to turn on a water faucet and move this big tub of water above a rope and pulley and then cut the rope to access the trapdoor. It's been a while since I played the game, so I don't remember exactly what it was, but it stuck in my mind because you don't often see these kinds of puzzles in an AG, at least in the onces I've played.

I recall a sequence in The Awakened where you have to chase someone that was pretty exciting as well. Anything like that in Sh vs The Ripper?

[tastebud]

Originally Posted by mgeorge

tastebud. Maybe it isn't really a physic based puzzle in the Awakened, (seemed to me it was), but I recall a warehouse where there is a trapdoor on the floor that you have to access. You have to turn on a water faucet and move this big tub of water above a rope and pulley and then cut the rope to access the trapdoor. It's been a while since I played the game, so I don't remember exactly what it was, but it stuck in my mind because you don't often see these kinds of puzzles in an AG, at least in the onces I've played.

I recall a sequence in The Awakened where you have to chase someone that was pretty exciting as well. Anything like that in Sh vs The Ripper?

oh ok now i know what you mean. no, im sorry to say that they aren't. for all my love of this game (and yes i really like this game) the adventuring aspects are pretty slim. they revolve mostly about meanial tasks. However, that is fine by me because it seems that what detectives would really do, walk around talk to people, find out some more info, talk to more people, walk here walk there etc. that combined with a historical setting makes this a very satisfying game. just be aware its not really a traditional adventure as such. for that, "the awakened" most closely resembled a traditional adventure.

if you primarily are interested in traditional puzzle solving combining objects with a big inventory etc then i can't recommend it to you. if you are interested in a game that sticks very closely to the ripper facts and makes you feel like you're actually walking the streets of white chapel and almost feeling what the people on the street and the police felt at the time, the fear, the poverty, the doubt (ahh so poetic), then this is certainly worth a look. i hope there'll be many more sherlock games. i do consider "the awakened" to be the best one though.

[mgeorge]

Originally Posted by tastebud

if you primarily are interested in traditional puzzle solving combining objects with a big inventory etc then i can't recommend it to you.

Egaads. No! that's not what I'm primarily interested in. I'd prefer a more dialog heavy game with logical puzzles and a good story. While I liked The Awakened very much there were some traditional puzzles in it that I didn't like. I enjoyed it more for the atmosphere, story and non traditional puzzles it contained. Which while there weren't that many, enough to keep me happy.

Another good example of that in the Awakened was the chase scene I mentioned earlier, and also the part where you're in the boat. I recall those scenes in particular because I'd never seen those types of gameplay in a traditional AG.

This Ripper game isn't as scary as the Awakened, but I really like the deduction board and the ambiance of the game in general.

Although I was just reading diegos post and he/she makes a good point about the load times. There are too many in the game, and it can break immersion at times.