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Old 05-17-2009, 12:54 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeorge View Post
This is what bothers me about the genre. Point and click is not dead. There are quite a few people that visit this forum that become outraged if a game is made without this dated gameplay mechanism.

Frogwares who develop the Sherlock Holmes games even went to the extent of totally revamping SH The Awakened to accommodate the traditional AG'er. Why should game devs bother with trying to innovate when many people don't want it? They can continue to pump out traditional AG's with dated graphics, convoluted puzzles and weak storylines because that's exactly what sells within the genre. And why not? There's much cheaper to make after all.

While I admit that games like Dreamfall, Indigo Prophecy and The Experiment have their faults, they at least tried something new in the genre. I'm not saying all AG's are in this mold. I recently completed Lost Crown, and while it had it's fair share of things I personally don't like in an AG, it also contained some fresh ideas that the genre is desperately in need of IMO.
Frogwares remade SH - The Awakening to make it third person as well as first person due to many people (including me) getting vertigo (motion sickness) playing the game in first person. The game was not changed from (full) 3D to
point and click.

Schizm 2 is also point and click, with screens. You point and click with your mouse, as I remember it. This is what point and cl; other control schemes are of course the use of the keyboard, WSAD keys and the use of a gamepad.

I doubt many of us said anything negative about Indigo Prophecy, and The Experiment (apart from the horrible controls). This goes as well for Dreamfall, while generally hailed for its storym the controlband is (and was) really awfull.
It was clear, at least to me, that Funcom (and Ragnar) wanted to make some quick and fast money by releasing a sequel to the The Longest Journey. And do this they made it for the Xbox (360) and added some fighting and stealth sequences that weren't very well made anyway.


Which adventure games have weak graphics? The SH games have pretty graphics; the Dracula: Origin game like wise, A Vampire Story; Ceville, Scorpio Ritual, So Blonde, Belief and Betryal all had medium to good graphics, I find.
And decent stories and nice puzzles, too.

These games do not have graphics like Call of Duty 4, of course, they still quite good and ok graphicswise, I find.

Many of the gamers that play adventuregamers are, in fact, senior citizens who might not have as strong hands as young people doo or suffer from arthritis. This means they can (only) play games using the mouse for control.
And that's probably why so many adventure fans are asking for point and click games where they use the mouse controlling the game.
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Old 05-17-2009, 02:04 PM   #82
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Got sick of 'too much mentioning' of belief and betrayal, checked out intro on video tube and cannot stop laughing, reason? Check comments (i am not alone)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNAg901Fbi8


The mass market cannot digest this and all old ideas.
People now want content, quality, they have choice don't forget.If they will find better product to buy, they will do so.
AG devlopers should start to think and try ways to capture BIG market, and come with proper presentation. Bad voiceacting, bad bad character models and animations like in recent still-life2 aren't enough(unfortunately due to spoiler concerns i cant link SL2 video). Again the linked video and LS2 graphics, story whatevr will be enough for you hardcore lovers but not masses.

Even stories are not that worthy. Seriously do you guys think any adventure game recently in last 3 years has better script/dialogue than ME or oblivion/fallout3?

AG genre itslef is just part of RPG.Not just RPG perse, can be part of any genre. Blegend script will blow all competition and writing of your AG games being a slasher/beatemup(action/adventure).
In ME and oblivion, adventure is part, you can put adventure elements along with RPG, and judging adventure elements alone, VAs and story are way better in ME or oblivion/FO3/witcher etc., compounded with dynamic conversations and choices.

People love 'freedom', another element to please masses.

HR is on right track of giving plenty of choices, moral or otherwise. I too personally hate and sick of onedimensional/linear stories with fixed plot like novels. More AG should try choices and dynamic gameplay atleast, but whats the point of choices if they will have B&B,SL2 type models with bad animation , and horrific VAs.

Its my personal advice, quality , masses and choices are three major things to invest in.


You know i was always vocal about how HR being released in fall, when competition will be tough and consumers will make easy choices like sequels and shooters etc. HR could become ME or DEADSPACE in sales, which is good(1 million), but EA wasn't happy. My point is even HR heavy hardhitting graphics, and ambitious design can't win typical attitude of todays consumer just THAT easily, even if product is exceptionally good with Sony backup. New IP, new genre, ''saturated market''. If it will do well then props to them, if it not then, well expected from masses(too many safe bets for them, halo,as2,uc2 mw2 etc). So even HR has to be careful for release window even being qualified already as 'quality new adventure IP'. So many dangers, so much trouble.

How can you expect to win just that easily, the trust of consumers even if you are not even close to quarter of HR in quality?

I need an honest answer, the solution to WIN market, not to sustain remnants of AG.

Last edited by nomadsoul; 05-17-2009 at 02:10 PM.
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Old 05-17-2009, 06:06 PM   #83
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Well, if you don't like Adventure games anymore, don't play them. I'm all for not letting bad quality through your wallet, but no one benefits from just declaring that it's pointless.

Adventure games are NOT part of RPGs, nor are they de-clawed combat-less role playing derivates. Adventure games have always been adventure games, and they are a unique genre. Granted, they're rarer nowadays, and they might have become a niche genre. But to grow a niche genre, you have to find new ways to deliver content.

Now, I've always liked that adventure games allow you to tell a good story with enthralling characters at a relaxed pace. But it seems everyone else forgot about that. Between the many bad releases, there are good ones. And adventure games are not dead, they're just not the gigantic part of the mainstream gaming industry.

But Sassing and dismissing adventure games as not being good enough for today's standards is kind of like saying there's no room for a certain genre of books just because it's not what's IN now. Say, just as an example. Let's say the mystery genre goes out of use (very unlikely), and all books are dramas nowadays. Do you go about saying mystery is dead? nah, mystery would be rare, but people would still buy it and produce it, albeit in different quantities and qualities.

Although, I do agree that the adventure genre is kind of becoming a love/hate affair. I found that I can't be neutral about recent games. I either think they're just idiotic, or that they're very good. There is a lot of good to be had in the genre, I just wish there was more threading into the unknown. Even the adventure genre seems to stick to a certain kind of theme and gameplay nowadays.

Although I think the answer lies in better games (in quality of writing), for a broader audience, encompassing many different topics (something that is quite feasible with the budgets needed to produce adventure games and the capacity for small developers to tackle the genre) and that tackle the genre's shortcomings (because much of them have to do with design, writing and quality), there is no reason to feel down just because adventures aren't what they used to be. ultimately, that only means that we've got the chance to make a good adventure and prove people wrong.

I myself hope to make a good adventure that will turn eyebrows and rise above all the others. Let's wait, work and see!
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Old 05-18-2009, 01:48 AM   #84
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heribertovalle

Your post made me smile, mainly because your first line summed up exactly what I was thinking when reading the previous post.

I agree with your comments about improvement in the genre requiring better writing and design. A well written story with well written dialogue and modern day adventure game graphics would be far more appealing to me (and I think many other adventure gamers) than the opposite - a game with nextgen graphics, but weak story. Am not saying you can only have one or the other of these things but am just stating my preference. As long as the graphics are good enough to set the atmosphere and help immerse the player then it doesn't matter that they don't look like the latest FPS/RPG. The writing is more important.

nomadsoul

What is this about "People love 'freedom', another element to please masses." Who cares about the masses? Not me. If everything was made to please the masses there would be no diversity in anything.

I agree freedom is a good thing however - up to a point at least. Gabriel Knight 3 for example. Loved how you could visit so many places and weren't always confined to one room or building. Loved how you had to keep an eye out on these place to see where NPCS were etc. Allowing Gabriel to pummel Mosely with a monkey-wrench, that would be too much freedom. I still want a linear story but giving the player freedom to explore that story is a good thing I think.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:58 AM   #85
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@nomadsoul,

I agree, regarding good stories, while not a big shooter fan myself, I will be playing Bioshock, I have had very good feedback on it *regarding the story* and I liked the visuals when I played at a friends house. It will be the 3rd shooter to play overall and I have been playing games since 1987 (my first pc w00t 8088!). A good story is a key element of most good games these days, while I'd rather not play a shooter (nothing against them, just not my cup of tea), if the good story is there that's where I'll go.
Regarding audio/visuals, any game is an an interactive audio/vidual experience, if the visuals/audio are not strong it losses a lot of potential. When the interaction is weakened by making it linear, sticking to PnC interface etc it losses another ton of potential.
I hope HR turns out to be as good as we expect it to be and set a new bar of standards for AGs, I think the genre needs a game to make an impression and above all raise the expectations from AGs, like eg. Baldur's Gate did with rpgs which were dying.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:25 AM   #86
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The move to capture the mass market has already started. More games being made towards the casual audience... do you like that move so far?
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:49 AM   #87
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The move to capture the mass market has already started. More games being made towards the casual audience... do you like that move so far?

PW, Layton and other made a tight approach and proved.
They used DS potential and userbase, too bad the westernerz failed on that front too, made only ripoffs and bad ports.
Now they should target nextgen too, with proper investements and standard quality, not for old fans but explore new fans and potential market too.

2 years back we were discussing the bad situation of brawlers and oldschool games(on other hardcore bralwers forums). And we had same frustration what you guys feeling now. Why they don't make quality retro style games now?

What happened later , since last year, Gamedevelopers made tremendous efforts to bring 2D retro gaming back with quality , and people again got hooked and they proved hit.

Bioniccommando, top quality with coop, tight music and what not, sold nuts.
Sf2HD mix, proved hit.
SF4 announced , sold 2.4
Mkvsdc
Soulcaliber
Samuraishowdown sen
Oboromuramasa, outstanding visuals and gameplay on wii,
TvC on wii
blazblue
Kof12 , nothing comes close
boy and his blob
splenkur
cave shooters, soldnerx, trine, fatrpincess and more PSN/XBLA titles that revived oldschool retro arcade gaming in HD. So we fans are more than happy now.

My point if missed is, that developers took stance, they woke up and went for it, other developers when saw potential, followed them(it gave them hope) and now its IN which it WAS NOT, it was almost dead, specially brawlers, now this year has become year of fighters and they are selling in hot numbers too, due to matching standards of ONLINE and HD(at the very least).

So same for dead adventure genre, if it has to rise... do something drastic or be happy with B&B types and keep calling them experience of lifetime.

One more thing , since console market has better share, and PC is doomed with piracy, developers should look for console adventures, i hope syberia will do good. PSN could be a good bet, to try the potential like 2D retro arcade gaming is doing.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:05 PM   #88
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What the Phoenix Wright series and Professor Layton showed me over the last couple of years, and will hopefully continue to show, if the upcoming Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth and Sloane and Mchale's Mysterious Story (next "puzzle game wrapped in a story" from the Layton developers) continue the trend, is that you can make an adventure-style game with:

a) Broad, mass market appeal, and
b) Strong sales in both Japan and the West

...whilst still using relatively outdated technology (the Nintendo DS - the most under-specced of all the current consoles, be it home or handheld) and graphics that are nowhere near "state of the art" (albeit with superb art design/direction of very different kinds to maximise the potential of the platform, in the two examples above).

Intriguing plots/storylines, appealing characters, great art direction and good use of available, well-known tech=big wins for adventure, whether most of the people playing these games in the broader market know that's what genre it is they're enjoying or not.

People have been proclaiming the adventure genre dead for so many years it's a bit of a joke, really; in much the same way that people have been proclaiming PC gaming dead ever since the NES took the larger slice of the gaming market.

In another ten years time, people will probably still be proclaiming both dead, while each will continue along, possibly in different forms, or with differing levels of overall popularity, but nonetheless very much alive.

Personally, if there are only two or three great games in the broader definition of the adventure genre released each year, be it on DS, PC, PS3 or whatever, I'll be happy. With all the other games I play, in various genres/styles, that will be more than enough to maintain my interest and take my $$$.

And even if adventure games (as most people define them now) were to be reduced further in popularity/status to the point where they mirrored Interactive Fiction, i.e. commercially non-viable and created by enthusiasts largely for their own pleasure, I'd still be happy with that. Every year, quietly and under the mainstream radar, there are always at least a handful of great text-only games written that compare favourably with, or even exceed, the likes of Infocom at their peak.

I don't actually think that will be the case any time soon though, as the aforementioned DS games indicate that there is very much a market/audience right here, right now, for narrative-based games with little or no action content.

The king is dead, long live the king, I reckon.
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Old 05-18-2009, 04:11 PM   #89
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Mass Effect features some of the most vital elements found in traditional adventure games, including story and characterization.
Click the image for a video clip showing this.


Just wanted to pop in and say that, wow, this is EXACTLY the same discussion I was having with other AG friends 5 or 6 years ago!!

I had even written a 4 part essay about this back in 2005 over at Adventure Developers:

The Cold Hotspot | Adventure Developers


Nothing's changed, really. And now it's several years since I wrote it, I don't expect it to ever change. As long as the niche crowd is happy with the genre's status quo, well, they're happy. But some of us here can also find adventure game elements - and many necessary progressions and innovations - in other games not arbitrarily categorized as adventure games.

But with me, I've moved on. Many of the most important and characteristic qualities of the bona fide adventure game have made their way into such highly impressive, dynamically progressive, inventive, commercially successful, and critically acclaimed games like Mass Effect (writing, story, dialogue, characterization, exploration), Portal (puzzles), Fable II (story, exploration), Okami (puzzles, exploration), and others (click each title for a respective brief clips of gameplay or cinematic).
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:27 PM   #90
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Just want folks to know that I'm do like AG's. I keep trying new ones but it seems every time I do, I'm disappointed in one way or the other. Bad animations, voice acting, or just plain silliness the plots take by the end.

My main gripe with AG's however are the convoluted puzzles. You still see obscure puzzles in almost every AG (at least that I've played), that have very little to do with the story in the game, and only seem to be there to extend the games length.

I'm quite sick of all the shooters that have come out as well,and see very little innovation in them either. My reason for turning to AG's. Personally I found the original Half Life better than HL2, which many people think is the superior game. Sure, it looks better and the physics engine gives more options to the gameplay, but it's still just a shooter.

I'm not talking about reinventing the wheel here. Just something different from the same ol same ol.

BTW; I'm pretty much a senior citizen myself at 57.
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Old 05-18-2009, 06:36 PM   #91
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Just want folks to know that I'm do like AG's. I keep trying new ones but it seems every time I do, I'm disappointed in one way or the other...

I'm not talking about reinventing the wheel here. Just something different from the same ol same ol.
If you have some time please read my 4 part essay (also linked in my post above). I don't mean to sound self-promoting but everything I have to say on the matter is in those essays and many of the points I make may resonate with yours.

I've said everything I can about the adventure game genre in the essays (published in '05), and what I find interesting is that after all these years things really haven't changed, at least to the degree where a game like Still Life 2 or Return To Mysterious Island 2 receives as much media coverage and commercial attention as Fallout 3 or Bioshock.
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Old 05-18-2009, 07:25 PM   #92
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But with me, I've moved on. Many of the most important and characteristic qualities of the bona fide adventure game have made their way into such highly impressive, dynamically progressive, inventive, commercially successful, and critically acclaimed games like Mass Effect (writing, story, dialogue, characterization, exploration), Portal (puzzles), Fable II (story, exploration), Okami (puzzles, exploration), and others (click each title for a respective brief clips of gameplay or cinematic).
That's interesting because I've come to realise that one of the key aspects I've always gotten/enjoyed/sought in adventure games aside from the plot/story is exploration, and while I still do get that from the genre, I increasingly find I get the same sensation/reward in games like the Legend of Zelda series (particularly Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker), and oddly enough, the Grand Theft Auto series.

Both encourage me to explore just for the fun of it, and to be honest, in the case of GTA, I never bother actually finishing the main storyline, since I prefer to veer off and do my own thing: trying to get to location 'x', just to see what's there, or to see if it's even possible to get to 'x' in the first place, etc.

Even with the Zelda games, while I do tend to at least finish those, half the fun is just in poking around, to see what's there, what the designers might have hidden, etc. Okami works well on that level, too.
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Old 05-19-2009, 02:42 AM   #93
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Thats why i recommended flower, since its exploration heavy and well only exploration.

Will you guys believe me if i would say that i finished oblivion on level2?

Best thing about both ME and oblivion were that they were so easy on RPG mechanics that you can finish them like adventures with light shooting and melee(well these become excuse to drag plot).

I did every single quest in oblivion, most of the time traveling, exploring and well killing enemies in 2 slashes mostly even on level2. The darkbrotherhood story arc was outstanding(i really felt morally bad, got emotional), i recommend every adventure lover to try just that story segment, even he/she hates oblivion as whole.
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Old 05-19-2009, 05:19 AM   #94
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@ Intrepid Homoludens, at work now, only had a glance at your article, looks like it's an interesting one, will get back later today or tomorrow when I have read it properly
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Old 05-19-2009, 04:32 PM   #95
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Grand Theft Auto IV - an intense adventure game in itself, even according to AG's owner.

Quote:
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That's interesting because I've come to realise that one of the key aspects I've always gotten/enjoyed/sought in adventure games aside from the plot/story is exploration, and while I still do get that from the genre, I increasingly find I get the same sensation/reward in games like the Legend of Zelda series (particularly Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker), and oddly enough, the Grand Theft Auto series.

Both encourage me to explore just for the fun of it, and to be honest, in the case of GTA, I never bother actually finishing the main storyline, since I prefer to veer off and do my own thing: trying to get to location 'x', just to see what's there, or to see if it's even possible to get to 'x' in the first place, etc.
Even Marek himself, the owner of this site, once stated that a Grand Theft Auto game feels very, very much like playing an adventure in terms of exploration and the rewards and discoveries it brings to the player (at the time he stated that he was referring specifically to GTA III, but I'm sure he'd extend it to Vice City, San Andreas, Liberty City Stories on the PSP, Chinatown Wars on the DS, and of course GTAIV).

Quote:
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Will you guys believe me if i would say that i finished oblivion on level2?

Best thing about both ME and oblivion were that they were so easy on RPG mechanics that you can finish them like adventures with light shooting and melee(well these become excuse to drag plot).

I did every single quest in oblivion, most of the time traveling, exploring and well killing enemies in 2 slashes mostly even on level2. The darkbrotherhood story arc was outstanding(i really felt morally bad, got emotional), i recommend every adventure lover to try just that story segment, even he/she hates oblivion as whole.
Quote:
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...where is it etched permanently that you must possess the combined IQs of Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Sherlock Holmes just to figure out a challenge in Myst? Why should that be a main qualifier? It's been argued that patience is actually more valuable in this case than sheer brute noggin. But I'll tell you one thing, I'd like to see those same snobs not try using intelligence to win an insanely complicated real time battle in Command & Conquer: Generals, or figure out which team members to choose on the next mission in Knights of The Old Republic based on individual skills, or plan their cunning moves second-by-second to successfully eliminate the targets in Hitman 2 with surgical precision and elegance. In other words, get over yourselves already! You keep holding your heads that high, you'll get a nosebleed. Sheer intelligence is not a requisite exclusive to adventure games and can certainly apply to other genres. Sometimes, being a humble Philistine and some patience are all you need.
- source

In the same article I also brought up Silent Hill 2 as an impressive example of an adventure game, even technically. It does feature all the elements of one - story or narrative (very strong emotional and psychological edge), strong characterization, wickedly complex cerebral challenges (puzzles), exploration. Sadly, though, not very many of us here have played it because of the action elements (though you could beat the game on the easiest setting).

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@ Intrepid Homoludens, at work now, only had a glance at your article, looks like it's an interesting one, will get back later today or tomorrow when I have read it properly
Thanks. I have to warn you, though, it's quite a long read. Take your time, I'm interested in your thoughts, especially considering it was written several years ago and from what I gleaned nothing much has changed since.
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Old 05-20-2009, 05:53 AM   #96
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@Intrepid Homoludens,

I read your article(s) last night and it is interesting. If I understand correctly you wrote this pre-Dreamfall/Fahrenheit, which I think are cool games, but actually apart from these two I don't think you missed too much. Spending time with ME ended up being my choice as well, the game quality speaks for itself.

Your article(s) take up some space and it would be impossible to discuss every single point you touch within reasonable space, more or less I agree with your remarks, some bulletpoints from my part,

* happy to see other people saying as well that patience is what is required for AGs not a PhD in particle physics.

* graphics in AGs could admittedly use some change, as you say, during the early 90s they had some of the best graphics, best gaming interfaces (they were also among the first games to have MT 32 sound and add voice acting) but the standards bar has raised a fair bit since 1991

* AGs should provide things to do while the player's main progression is fhalted and there should be more than one way to pass an obstacle (non-linearity), choices should affect the world/continuation of the story.

*
Quote:
any illusion of choice, of exploration, of interaction, of discovery -- especially by people who can't read and infer directly into the abstracted scripts of the game -- is completely obliterated..
*
Quote:
The golden days of Lucas Arts and Sierra are pretty much done, so it seems pointless to cling to them and demand that they produce games that are carbon copies of what we had in 1995
*
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It must never be about the arbitrarily imposed prisons of flat 2D graphics, embarrassingly unskilled 3D graphics, point-&-click interface, and tired slider puzzles
In your article series you also touched promotion/disctribution & pricing issues, which I did not touch upon this thread, not because I don't consider them very important but because a better distribution system won't fix a bad game (but it can make a good game shine). I may start another thread on distribution systems sometime in the not-so-far future, being both a fan of retail distribution and online (I think they are both needed) and totally against restrictive & invasive DRM (not *all* drm, Steam is fine by me), I'd like to see what other people think about games distribution. Pricing is also very important, iphone quality games should imho have iphone game prices, that's usually 1-2 Euros. Publishers imho should be taking in consideration the distribution method when considering pricing, online distro is cheaper & it's practically rental, so prices should be "steam prices" for the AAA games and alot less for games whose quality is not on par. I promise to start another thread on all these interesting topics but since they are not AG specific (not that I don't find AGs lacking in these departments as well), I won't expand more on this here


Also some posters mentioned some recent AGs do not use recent ideas but are rather implementing known ideas which were somewhat confined to the Japanese market so far. While something entirely new is very welcome, to people , like e.g. myself, who had little exposure to Japanese culture this is "new" and I find it nice that such schemes are entering more mainstream channels.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:42 AM   #97
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Hi everyone, my first post here too.

While they might not be reinventing the genre, I think that the current way forward until the next Tim Schafer comes along is traditional, but good, DS adventure games. They're selling fairly well from what I hear, and some get great reviews, and are exceptional, like, in my opinion, Hotel Dusk and Phoenix Wright (although I respect the latter isn't really an 'adventure game'). Almost all of them seem to get at least passable reviews, and while I'm not even going to pretend any of them innovate at all, they are succeeding in bringing back a genre many deem to be dead to the masses.

Surely if DS, and to a certain extent, Wii adventure games keep selling, then bigger developers might try their hand? Maybe this could bring about the much needed innovation the genre needs. And with Sam and Max, Wallace and Gromit, and maybe Monkey Island coming to XBLA, they might shift a few copies. If that happens, we can only hope that someone realises just how much people love this genre, and maybe they'll make the next great adventure game we all want. While it's not a traditional adventure game, I personally think that Heavy Rain might be that landmark game.
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Old 05-20-2009, 03:47 PM   #98
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One adventure game getting some media attention is Hysteria Project ( IGN review) for the iPhone and iPod Touch. This is a 'live action footage' horror suspense experience that works much like an interactive story and features a very Blair Witch type style and atmosphere. The game looks to work beautifully with the device's touch screen interface. Click each pic for trailer and gameplay footage.



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Originally Posted by imisssunwell View Post
@Intrepid Homoludens,

I read your article(s) last night and it is interesting. If I understand correctly you wrote this pre-Dreamfall/Fahrenheit, which I think are cool games, but actually apart from these two I don't think you missed too much.
Correct. But I did bring up those two games in part 4:

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Enter titles like Dreamfall, the spiritual successor of The Longest Journey. Designer Ragnar Tørnquist is, thankfully, unapologetic about forging ahead with his vision. Whereas The Longest Journey was a classic 2D point-&-clicker, Dreamfall will feature a far more dynamic and alive experience and will include elements deemed controversial (at least to the conservative hardcore adventure gaming community), like real time 3D, direct control character movement, an innovative interface that dumps the old fashioned point-&-click style, and RPG-like problem solving for puzzles and situational challenges. That some action (mostly optional) will be included has been the subject of white hot fights within adventure communities, evincing many fans' refusal to move beyond the past and embrace change and new experiences. But in the end, the strongest advantage will be Dreamfall's potential to attract a new variety of gamers, ones who do not define their games in terms of interface or even graphics, but instead in how those games will give them uniquely memorable experiences.

...Quantum Dream's upcoming Indigo Prophecy uses the actual pivotal narrative details themselves to establish a seemingly organic path of detours - this supernatural suspense thriller will challenge the player, in real time, 'on the fly', to make quick decisions that will affect how the story ebbs and flows to one of several conclusions. This idea of a malleable plot as the true, overarching puzzle - pretty much the only puzzle in the entire game - has never been explored to this extent before, at this level of ambition, in graphical adventure games. As such Indigo Prophecy looks to be more in lineage with text parser games like Zork and the If games.
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...a better distribution system won't fix a bad game (but it can make a good game shine).
Oh, absolutely! In fact, if a[n adventure] game sucks, the more channels of distribution it has the more likely many consumers will see that it sucks so that would detrimental. Conversely, if the game is high quality on all levels, many channels of distribution can only serve to propel its high quality to a far larger number of potential gamers.

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I may start another thread on distribution systems sometime in the not-so-far future, being both a fan of retail distribution and online (I think they are both needed) and totally against restrictive & invasive DRM (not *all* drm, Steam is fine by me), I'd like to see what other people think about games distribution. Pricing is also very important, iphone quality games should imho have iphone game prices, that's usually 1-2 Euros. Publishers imho should be taking in consideration the distribution method when considering pricing, online distro is cheaper & it's practically rental, so prices should be "steam prices" for the AAA games and alot less for games whose quality is not on par. I promise to start another thread on all these interesting topics but since they are not AG specific (not that I don't find AGs lacking in these departments as well)...
At the time I wrote this, I naturally had no idea of the upcoming iPhone (I own an iPhone and play the puzzle game Zen Bound on it). To date there are more than 4,078 games available for the iPhone or iPod Touch. What surprises me is that so few adventure game developers are currently not paying attention to this platform, though those that do are certainly taking advantage of the device's new way of interacting (touch screen interface).

The current reputation is that adventure games are still weighted down with the PC crowd. Not enough are still being designed expressly for handhelds and consoles, the biggest platform markets.

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Also some posters mentioned some recent AGs do not use recent ideas but are rather implementing known ideas which were somewhat confined to the Japanese market so far. While something entirely new is very welcome, to people , like e.g. myself, who had little exposure to Japanese culture this is "new" and I find it nice that such schemes are entering more mainstream channels.
That sounds cool. And that's what developers working on other kinds of games have been doing for years now so it's nice to see adventure game devs tapping into that.
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Old 05-21-2009, 07:35 AM   #99
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The current reputation is that adventure games are still weighted down with the PC crowd. Not enough are still being designed expressly for handhelds and consoles, the biggest platform markets.
The reason for this is that point-n-click games won't fly with today's console gamers. They need to be full 3D with direct control in order to compete on 360 and PS3. Although some PNCs have be released for Wii, they aren't great sellers there. DS is the best platform for PNC games.
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Old 05-21-2009, 03:29 PM   #100
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The reason for this is that point-n-click games won't fly with today's console gamers. They need to be full 3D with direct control in order to compete on 360 and PS3. Although some PNCs have be released for Wii, they aren't great sellers there. DS is the best platform for PNC games.
In other words, the large potential market for such games has changed/move on/lost interest. And yet the companies that produce p-&-c games have largely not adjusted accordingly and today that kind of game has slipped into obscurity, no longer deserving of media coverage other than from sites like this one. Why is that, Beacon? And what do you see are the consequences for it?
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