[shezcrafti]

So what does one do when he or she has an awesome idea for an adventure game, but has no idea how to put it into action?

I know nothing about developing games, but I have such a great idea for one (I'm sure there are others out there like me.) How do you cope? What can you do to get your ideas to the right people?

My game concept is one that, for me, is my dream adventure game. It's a unique story that I know for a fact has never been done before. In my head, I can visualize the game from start to finish, even the types of puzzles it involves and the characters it revolves around.

If there are other threads like this one, feel free to point me there!

[J-MAN]

First of all I'd say write out the plot and story. Then do a short bio for all the main characters and work out a rough conversation tree for all interactions etc. Then personally I find it good to write out the whole gameplay as if it was a walk through.

Care to share your idea with us? Obviously not spoiling it just a brief explanation?

[shezcrafti]

Originally Posted by J-MAN

First of all I'd say write out the plot and story. Then do a short bio for all the main characters and work out a rough conversation tree for all interactions etc. Then personally I find it good to write out the whole gameplay as if it was a walk through.

Care to share your idea with us? Obviously not spoiling it just a brief explanation?

Hey, thanks for the reply. That was fast!

What prompted me to start this thread was another thread where people complained about the same old tried & true plot devices/generic storylines (detective, murder mystery, ghost hunting, insane asylum, etc.) that adventure games seem to keep re-purposing over and over again. And when I read things like that I can't help but agree, and then this idea of mine resurfaces and starts nagging!

I'm hesitant to share my idea because I believe it's so unique, I wouldn't want to risk putting it out there without some way to protect it. (Of course, it could be total crap to someone else, but I at least believe in it enough to feel protective of it!)

I agree that writing it out is a good plan--but my question is more along the lines of:

"But then what?"

Even if I were to write it all out, describe in detail the scenery, the characters, the puzzles (which would be largely inventory-based), the dialogue...then what? I'm just a writer with good ideas and no way to bring them to life.

How do writers connect with someone willing to develop? Is it typical for adventure games to be conceived of in this way?

[J-MAN]

Well one thing I would say is make a start by writing it down because then you will have a full working document to present to gaming companies. However I'm unsure what to do then maybe someone else can shed some light on it?

I'm intrigued to know about your idea though. I won't steal it I'm making my own game anyway lol but if you don't want to post it up here perhaps you could PM me some brief info on it?

[Jadefalcon]

I wouldn't mind seeing one set during WWII, I know Operation Wintersun qualifies but it was slightly disappointing. A setting apart from the cookie cutter Fantasy or sci fi might be nice.

[Josho]

I can give you some direction here, given that I was in charge of looking at, evaluating, and responding to outside submissions at Sierra On-Line for some years -- and, btw, in the history of the company, only one game was produced via outside submission. That all ended in the mid-90s, when, for legal reasons, the company stopped looking at them and started sending them back unopened -- which is what you're up against today at almost all publishers and developers of any size.

First of all, a complete design document is not only unnecessary, but unwanted. People submitting game concepts work under the misconception that the more thoroughly documented a concept is, the more valuable or attractive it will be to a developer. It's just the opposite. No developer is in the business of taking somebody's complete design document and executing it. And few employees have the time, energy, or desire to read a design document on spec, especially one that comes from a non-employee.

As a corollary to that: people in the industry, especially decision-makers, have short attention spans. If you can't wow them with your idea in two paragraphs, you're not going to wow them with a 100-page design document.

Although some people here (Steve Ince, for one) may disagree, it's my feeling that great design ideas are fairly common. Why do you see so few of them, then? Because groundbreaking ideas have a much tougher row to hoe when it comes to getting produced than do "tried and true" (read: same 'ol, same 'ol) design concepts. Tried-and-true are lower-risk, and the money people are often risk-averse.

At development companies, there are writers, artists, designers, and programmers. They all have ideas, some of which are good and a few of which are more than just good. And they're all better positioned to get THEIR ideas developed than somebody from the outside. (The exception is if the "somebody from the outside" has special credentials, such as being published or produced in other fields...books, Hollywood, etc.)

So the question remains: what SHOULD you do?

Let's assume you CAN find some way to get into the door at a developer. Any good developer is going to insist on signing documents with you before looking at anything. These documents will hold them harmless should they come out with a game that, in any way, resembles what you showed them. Yes, generally, they have all the power in these situations. You have to find someone you trust.

And you have to have a demo.

If you can't produce one on your own, your best bet is to put up notices at local colleges, universities, and trade schools, looking for artists/programmers to produce a demo. This way, you give them something they can use for a school project, and you get a functional demo out of it (ideally).

--Josh

[therabidfrog]

Well I would start it the same way you would shooting everything from a full out film to music videos. Map out your basic concept on place cards. Start to develop characters. Maybe write a bible for the setting, and then work on a script. The puzzles and everything should fit around that so I would worry about the script first.

[bbX1138]

Originally Posted by therabidfrog

Well I would start it the same way you would shooting everything from a full out film to music videos. Map out your basic concept on place cards. Start to develop characters. Maybe write a bible for the setting, and then work on a script. The puzzles and everything should fit around that so I would worry about the script first.

I think shezcrafti is asking how to get a development team together to make his idea for him.

Shezcrafti, are you thinking of an established commercial developer like Telltale etc, or more of an Underground get-together made up of people from places like this and the AGS forums?

If the latter, it's an interesting question as to whether someone would be willing to code your ideas without having any real creative input. Depending on how much creative control you want, perhaps you should work through a few tutorials of AGS, Wintermute or whatever and see how you feel about coding it yourself, or co-coding it.

If the former, then Josh gave a damn good answer!

[shezcrafti]

Originally Posted by bbX1138

I think shezcrafti is asking how to get a development team together to make his idea for him.

Shezcrafti, are you thinking of an established commercial developer like Telltale etc, or more of an Underground get-together made up of people from places like this and the AGS forums?

If the latter, it's an interesting question as to whether someone would be willing to code your ideas without having any real creative input. Depending on how much creative control you want, perhaps you should work through a few tutorials of AGS, Wintermute or whatever and see how you feel about coding it yourself, or co-coding it.

If the former, then Josh gave a damn good answer!

Thanks for posing this question BBX--I didn't even think to clarify what I meant in my original post. I am thinking more along the lines of indie game development, not selling my idea to well-established publishers.

I'm well aware that it's highly atypical for a nobody like me to up and decide she wants to produce a game one day and be successful at it (and thanks to Josh for the heavy dose of insider reality!). But at the same time I also know that some of the best games I've ever played have been garage projects made by teams of 2 or 3 people, and I find that fact very encouraging. But in a lot of cases, these are people who already knew each other, or were husband and wife developer teams, etc. I have looked into AGS (and know nothing about it) but have seen screenshots of games developed using it-- AGS doesn't at all capture the look & feel I envision for my game, but I bet it would make a great prototyping tool.

If I were to ever try seriously to bring my idea to life, I would imagine the journey would be difficult, but also very rewarding creatively. I would not be doing it for the money, but of course that would be nice! I envision self-publishing on my own website, launching my own marketing campaign, developing my own creative (graphic/web design & web marketing is my day job, btw), etc. At any rate...these are the humble things I daydream about.

[Hol]

Hi, I'm a uni student just finishing a computer games design degree, and I'm tempted to help you out with a prototype. I can 3d model, texture and animate - here's my (badly in need of an overhaul) website: http://www.hollygrint.co.uk. I've worked with unreal editor, hammer and a little of wintermute (though not so much on the programming side)

I'm finishing my degree in may but I'm also currently working for a mod team, so I need to dedicate some time to them first of all. But if your idea is really great and I like the sound of it, I'll see what I can do.

[shezcrafti]

Originally Posted by Hol

Hi, I'm a uni student just finishing a computer games design degree, and I'm tempted to help you out with a prototype. I can 3d model, texture and animate - here's my (badly in need of an overhaul) website: http://www.hollygrint.co.uk. I've worked with unreal editor, hammer and a little of wintermute (though not so much on the programming side)

I'm finishing my degree in may but I'm also currently working for a mod team, so I need to dedicate some time to them first of all. But if your idea is really great and I like the sound of it, I'll see what I can do.

Hello, Ms. Holly, I am very impressed by your work! Early congrats on finishing your degree, I really admire what you're doing. I would have loved to get into computer animation, I think it's fascinating. Thank you for your offer; it's very generous of you to even consider it! At this point my idea is just that--an idea--but I will send you a private message with a top-level description.

[Josho]

Shezcrafti,

If you can make the whole game yourself, with a small team, that would be ideal. You can then show it to a publisher (one that you trust not to rip off the concept) and really give them the visual and visceral experience they need.

I should've pointed out: that one game that Sierra produced based on a submission? It was JONES IN THE FAST LANE, and the submission we received was the complete game. The graphics were very crude, but since the infectious gameplay shined through, it won us over anyway.

--Josh

[peter.vullings]

Great advice from Josho. I'd like to give you a slightly different perspective (from my side) - a game development studio passionate about adventure games and currently planning our own series:

Pixelthis have created casual games for mobile, iPhone and online for about 5 years. We have a team of 7 artists and developers. My passion (and vision) for the company is to create adventure games for casual audiences, but they are a huge undertaking, which is why we are only just making the move.

We have a lot of talent. Mine is game and puzzle design, and we have brilliant developers and artists. We know a good story when we hear one - we have some great concepts of our own - but we aren't writers.

We have discussed how we can overcome this limitation - do we hire a writer? If so, how do we know if they are any good? Do we try to write it ourselves, and maybe end up with something that isn't as good as it could be?

What we could really do with is someone with a great synopsis - a compelling story and great characters - who can write fantastic dialog. How do we find someone like this? We have considered running a competition where people submit their ideas but, just as Josho says, there are legal issues here that we really don't feel comfortable with.

The biggest issue for us is - what happens if one of the ideas we already have is close to one that was submitted, and we end up developing it?

So no answers here (sorry!). We are still deciding how to proceed. On the one hand we need great ideas (like yours) but on the other, it's a touchy undertaking...

[Trumgottist]

Originally Posted by bbX1138

If the latter, it's an interesting question as to whether someone would be willing to code your ideas without having any real creative input. Depending on how much creative control you want, perhaps you should work through a few tutorials of AGS, Wintermute or whatever and see how you feel about coding it yourself, or co-coding it.

As is already evident by Hol's post, finding someone isn't unthinkable. If I hadn't been busy with projects of my own (which I am, so I am in no way volunteering my services), I would have been interested if the idea was good and you showed signs of being able to follow it through.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by bbX1138

If the latter, it's an interesting question as to whether someone would be willing to code your ideas without having any real creative input.

Over on the AGS Forums there's a Recruit a Team thread where people can ask for help with making their game. I know this has been successful for a few people, but I believe the responses you get are pretty dependent on your credibility (do people know you or did you just join the forum, can you show them something or are you asking for people to make your game for you from scratch).

Originally Posted by shezcrafti

I have looked into AGS (and know nothing about it) but have seen screenshots of games developed using it-- AGS doesn't at all capture the look & feel I envision for my game, but I bet it would make a great prototyping tool.

Well, if you're thinking of making a 3D game like Dreamfall or Myst V, AGS cannot do that (at least not very well). I don't think anyone has ever done an FMV "interactive movie"-type game, either, though it should be possible. Other than that, the look & feel is almost completely down to the graphic artist, not the engine (which supports resolutions up to 1024x768). Different AGS games look completely different, so don't assume that the screenshots you saw determine how your game has to look.


Images from: The Rogue Prince, The Blackwell Convergence, The Wanderer, Anna, Je suis Dieu et j'en ai assez, Boryokudan Rue, Heartland Deluxe, Nelly Cootalot: Spoonbeaks Ahoy!, Purgatorio, and Limey Lizard: Waste Wizard.

That's not to say AGS is necessarily your best choice. WME is also great, and you should consider alternatives such as Visionaire, Lassie and P&C Dev. Kit before you make your decision.

[TheTwelve]

The best way to find people to help you in the indie/amateur/hobbyist space is to make something small first. If you can make a small one-room game on your own that shows promise in the areas of game design and storytelling, even if it shows a complete lack of talent in art and coding, it will be a big motivator to help get people on board.

As an added bonus, working on a project like this can only help make your next project (that dream game of yours) better, because even developing a small game (like the above screen-shotted Anna) teaches you a lot about game, puzzle, and story design. I look back at all the things that I did wrong in that game, and can easily see how I improved in my second, much larger game, Linus Bruckman.

I made both of those games on my own, over relatively short periods of time (a week for Anna, eight months for Linus) despite having no honed artistic talent, and have now managed to assemble a real all-star team for the development of my dream game, which has been under development for about two years now.

So start small, and build to your big project. It helps you gain ability, learn some lessons that you can only learn by trying and failing, and helps you attract potential team members to help you make something great.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by TheTwelve

The best way to find people to help you in the indie/amateur/hobbyist space is to make something small first. If you can make a small one-room game on your own that shows promise in the areas of game design and storytelling, even if it shows a complete lack of talent in art and coding, it will be a big motivator to help get people on board.

As an added bonus, working on a project like this can only help make your next project (that dream game of yours) better, because even developing a small game (like the above screen-shotted Anna) teaches you a lot about game, puzzle, and story design. I look back at all the things that I did wrong in that game, and can easily see how I improved in my second, much larger game, Linus Bruckman.

I made both of those games on my own, over relatively short periods of time (a week for Anna, eight months for Linus) despite having no honed artistic talent, and have now managed to assemble a real all-star team for the development of my dream game, which has been under development for about two years now.

So start small, and build to your big project. It helps you gain ability, learn some lessons that you can only learn by trying and failing, and helps you attract potential team members to help you make something great.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing recently, but I've skipped the one week project and went straight to the eight months one. Well, maybe more like five months - we shall see.

I'd have to say though that not everyone who can write a good story will make a good project leader, or have the necessary skills to see even a basic one-man game project to competition. Maybe for such person it would be better to first seek publications of his short stories in magazines dedicated to the fiction genre of his choice and then use them as an argument to convince someone to adapt a story of his to a game.

[shezcrafti]

Just wanted to pause for a moment and thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I really appreciate everyone's feedback! I'm surprised at the variety of answers, but I do value them all.

I have taken some of your advice already and begun to write out my game & storyline step by step. Small progress, I know, but gotta start somewhere.

[bbX1138]

Originally Posted by TheTwelve

The best way to find people to help you in the indie/amateur/hobbyist space is to make something small first. If you can make a small one-room game on your own that shows promise in the areas of game design and storytelling, even if it shows a complete lack of talent in art and coding, it will be a big motivator to help get people on board.

Good call! Here's a page that links to the AGS One Room One Week competition threads, for inspiration. I can personally recommend the two by Mash, Beauties And Beasts and Cure for The Common Cold (especially the former).