[the lotus eater]

I'm new here and i'm proud to be posting my very first thread at this very moment (tears of happiness..)... Oh, and please forgive any grammar or vocabulary mistakes. Thanx in advance

I'd like to express my disappointment concerning a certain issue, that's been bothering me... I've been playing AGs for a long time and i still can't help but HATE myself everytime i turn to walkthroughs...

I don't know if it's just me, but when i solve a puzzle after having consulted a walkthrough, i feel like i'm not supposed to have come to this point, like i don't deserve it!! Even if i finish the game afterwards, i won't be proud of myself, it won't be satisfying enough for me!! Because i'll have cheated..

On the other hand, UHS or a well-integrated in game hint system are quite welcome!!
Because they won't reveal the solution to you, but they will only provide you with a hint to help you find a hint that will lead you to another hint that will reveal the hint that is critical to your success!!!

I'm not sure, but it sounds fair enough to me.. What 'd you think?? How often does an average AG gamer use a walkthrough??

[ILoveYou]

Some games have puzzles that are illogical or just plain absurd (still life lock picking.. I never got past that without a save game from another player!) and in these cases it's acceptable (in my opinion) to use walkthroughs. But then in some games (BS3!!!!) you really don't need to use any kind of hint system but the games own to understand what you're supposed to do. lol.

[therabidfrog]

I've stated more than once that I hate having to use a walkthrough, and if I feel like I need to turn to one too often I just quite playing. I consider it cheating, and the fact that too many AG are completely illogical and often have the difficulty of puzzles just leap up suddenly without any real transition ot help you adjust to the games logic.

Personally I stopped even looking at the UHS because 9 times out of 10 I'll be in situation where I need an item to open a door and I'll go to the UHS site and the hint will be "Did you know you need an item to open that door?" at which point I hit myself with the keyboard.

[Zanthia]

I use a walkthrough every time I get seriosly stuck. as for feeling... it depends. If the solution was obvious, but it didn't se it, thts one thing. if i have no idea why should the solution be like that- it other thing. In later case I would probably have bad feeling towards the game creators and not myself. Ingame hint systems are good, but many games just don't have it. As for uhs- sometimes it helps.

[Fantasysci5]

Hmm, although I do think it's cheating to use a walkthrough, I usually do use one. Using hints is fine with me, because some puzzles are almost impossible. But I am so horrible with puzzles, that I use a walkthrough/hint just to get past them, since the story is what keeps me playing.

[Trunkyo]

There have been quite a few threads about this topic, but I'll chime in again.

(If FGM were here, she'd definitely say there's no "wrong" way to play an adventure game, including playing with a walkthrough in hand from the very beginning! ) Personally, I'd rather not use walkthroughs, resorting only to UHS and in-game hints. WTs often only give the most direct route to finishing a game, sometimes without explaining why the correct solution works, and usually don't bother mentioning extras, in-jokes, or easter eggs.

It's usually because of illogical solutions, not enough clues, missed hotspots or pixel hunts that cause me to consult UHS. Afterwards, I wind up feeling really silly for missing a hotspot or item or shout at my monitor, "How in the world was I supposed to figure that out?! "

BTW, my personal streak of games finished without resorting to UHS is six, from earlier this year: Crime Stories (Martin Mystère), Chronicles of Mystery: The Scorpio Ritual, Aura 2: The Sacred Rings, Scratches DC, Ankh and Everlight! Would anyone believe the streak ended because of Paradise? Yep, missed hotspot.

[the lotus eater]

1. thanx for sharing your opinions on the subject, actually it almost convinced me that i don't really have to burn in hell and suffer eternally in case i use a walkthrough!!

2. but i disagree with ILoveYou about the lockpicking puzzle in Still Life... it was ingenious!! it did take me 2 hours to figure it out but, i was extremely satisfying.. Cookies on the other hand.....................@#$#!@$

3. the atmosphere and story is what keeps playing too..
i really hate it when puzzles feel a little "out of place" and have nothing to with the story at all (myst, rhem, aura, schizm)

[misslilo]

I have no problem admitting, that I'll use a walkthrough whenever I'm stuck - and sometimes even without being stuck!

I'm not sure if the people who hate/refuse to use a WT expect to get a medal or something, but I just think it's bull, lol.

There's nothing WRONG in having to need some help.
We all need help at some point in our lives - whether it's with a game, homework, work, familiy, friends or just life.

So - here's a tribute to those who are not afraid to admit it

[youfightlikeadairyfarmer]

or shout at my monitor, "How in the world was I supposed to figure that out?!

Every adventure I play has at least one of these moments for me, and usually several. I guess I'm just not as smart as I should be, but these games come up with some max craziness.

[therabidfrog]

Originally Posted by misslilo

I'm not sure if the people who hate/refuse to use a WT expect to get a medal or something, but I just think it's bull, lol.

Because the general idea of playing a video game is to actually play it. Not have everything handed to you. I think most people like to be challenged. It's the whole point of engaging in something interactive.

Personally I never understood the kind of people who would go out and buy a game and the walkthrough book at the same time or get a game and immediately use cheat codes. It's like going to the movies or reading a book, but having some one explain the entire plot before hand.

[misslilo]

Alright, whatever rocks your boat

Although I still think, that way of thinking is kind of "hovski snovski".

But OK - as long as I'm not looked down at for using a WT it's fine with me

[Fantasysci5]

Originally Posted by misslilo

But OK - as long as I'm not looked down at for using a WT it's fine with me

If you were looked down on, then I would too, and we can't have that.

I do usually feel cheap and down on myself if I use a walkthrough, but some puzzles really do need a hint. It makes me feel so much better when I solve a puzzle by myself, though.

[Schneckchen ^.^]

I usually download a walkthrough for a game before I even installed it. Then I always have it open in the background and don't hesitate to use it when I get stuck. I just play Adventure games for the story. If I want to feel like I "accomplished" something, the last place I'd go is in front of my computer playing an adventure game.

[therabidfrog]

The funny thing is the only time I ever use walkthroughs is while playing adventure games. It's the one thing that bugs me most because I'm there to be challenged by the puzzles. Not beat in the head with illogical none sense.

The story is fine, and can be engaging for a video game, and certainly I also play AG for a decent story, but having to use a walkthrough to me feels like playing an FPS and some one comes in and does all the shooting for me.

Still some times it feels like there's no getting around it.

[marshal99]

There is no wrong in using a walkthrough , it depends on your preference although i liked built-in hint system like those from Phantasmagoria or the Tex Murphy ones. Point of playing a game should be for pleasure , not frustration if you get stuck.

[VampireNaomi]

For me it depends a lot on the situation and the puzzle. I hate mechanical puzzles in which I have to figure out how some kind of machine works, calculate something, open a mechanical lock or whatever, so if I can't figure those on my own quickly enough, I always use a walkthrough. Getting stuck on a puzzle like that just makes me angry and I get no fun out of solving them, so I just use a walkthrough to skip them. I do the same if I feel that I know exactly what I have to do but the game makes it impossible/difficult. For example, if I know that I have to find a key but I just can't find it anywhere, I often resort to a walkthrough to see where it is.

I'm more hesitant about using a walkthrough in other situations, but I still do it if I just can't figure out what to do. I usually feel pretty bad afterwards, especially if the situation was obvious. Recently I was stuck on a game and when I looked at a walkthrough, it turned out that I had simply forgotten to ask a certain character about something. It was the first time I used a walkthrough in that game, so I felt pretty disappointed in myself.

[therabidfrog]

I like mechanical puzzles except the inevitable click on a bunch of colored lights in order to make them all one color. How many adventure games do they need to use that in?

What burns me is when you need an object like a shovel, and it turns into now what room did the developers decide to camouflage this thing in? But I definitely agree. The worst is when you use a walkthrough and it ends up being something really simple like having a conversation.

[aries323]

I use walkthroughs and hint systems a lot, especially to get started in an adventure game. Sometimes the starting puzzles are not very logical at all, I find. However, I try to make it without hints or walkthroughs as long as I can. Sometimes, they are necessary, though. Especially if there are music or color puzzles. I'm both a bit tonedeaf and colour blind...
I also loathe mechanichal puzzles e.g. the puzzle in Black Mirror where you have to figure out a way to drain the well. I used a walkthrough to solve that puzzle...

On a more general note, I find the problem to be that the developers make a puzzle that are very logical to them but maybe not very logical to the player.

[LeisureSuitedLooney]

I use walkthroughs a lot these days, but it made me realize: Back in the days before the 'net, my friends and I used to be able to do these games without all these safety nets, like walkthroughs, hint systems, message boards etc. Maybe the games got harder, or maybe we just got older, lol. Still, I find myself buying less and less adventure games these days, gravitating more towards rpg's, online games and even genre hybrids for my DS. Last adventure game I bought was Season One of Sam and Max, and I never did finish it. Or maybe Barrow Hill. Been a year and a half, so I don't even remember, exactly.

In-game hint systems are cool, though,when well-implemented. Often in older games, I'll look back and realize that a certain line of dialogue or a well-placed detail or description gave me all the info I needed, and that always makes me chuckle in appreciation of clever game design.

[Roper Klacks]

In the old days i was a lot more reluctant in using walkthroughs, however, nowadays i dont really have a lot of free time, i dont have the luxury to loose several hours stuck in a game, so i use them sometimes. But still, i mostly use them in early game when its a lot easy to loose interest in the game. After the point when i'm deeply into the game i don't mind being stuck and not use outside help.