[After a brisk nap]

Trying to turn the " Positive/negative bias in reviews?" thread into something productive, I thought I'd take a crack at identifying innovations in gameplay and puzzles in various adventure games.

That reminded me that a few different people have tried to classify puzzles into more general categories. But I can't find the links to all the ones I remember. Maybe you can help me out?

Uh, actually it turns out I was able to find all the ones I was looking for, so instead I'll just post them here:

• Designing the Puzzle in Game Design by Bob Bates (also here)
• Puzzles and Problem Solving by Mike Rozak
• Application of Puzzle Theory by Scarpia
• Designing Adventure Puzzles by Jonathan R. Partington
• Why Adventure Games Suck by Ron Gilbert
• The Craft of Adventure by Graham Nelson
• Puzzles in Interactive Fiction by Dennis G. Jerz
• How to Make a Text-Based Adventure: Puzzles on h2g2
• Interactive Fiction Theory at Brass Lantern
• Numerous articles under the Craft section on ifwiki.org

There are quite a few that only list "bad" puzzle types, like Bad Game Designer, No Twinkie! on Gamasutra, and Yahtzee's Depressingly Common Adventure Game Design Flaws here on Adventure Gamers, most of which I haven't included.

There's reference to an AGDZine article by one Blake Speers, but it's gone 404. Maybe someone has it backed up somewhere?

[Ascovel]

I'm not sure if all that theory is needed to identify innovation.

Anyway, for ardent readers I add to the list two newly written articles:

Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part I)
Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part II)
Searching Under the Rug: Interfaces, Puzzles, and the Evolution of Adventure Games

[colpet]

I'm sure that there was a thread about this at Gameboomers, but I tried to find it and couldn't.

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

I'm not sure if all that theory is needed to identify innovation.

No, probably not. But in trying to identify unique and innovative puzzle mechanics, a list of existing puzzle types seemed useful. The first three articles provide a pretty good selection, and the rest add a few additional concepts. One thing that struck me was that IF games seem to place a lot more emphasis on one-of-a-kind original puzzles. Probably because text parsers allow them more freedom, and because the audience is more hardcore about their puzzles. They don't seem to make an effort to create more general, repeatable gameplay mechanics, though. Or maybe they do and it just isn't apparent in the articles I read.

What I ended up with was an extensive list of factors that affect how your game plays, as well as specific puzzle templates/types/design patterns. I'll see if there's some useful way to share it with you guys.

Anyway, for ardent readers I add to the list two newly written articles:

Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part I)
Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part II)
Searching Under the Rug: Interfaces, Puzzles, and the Evolution of Adventure Games

Thanks! The article by Steve Metzler was interesting, though I don't think there's anything new on his list of puzzle types (apparently implicitly a list of bad puzzle types, in his opinion). I also think Steve misses a couple of important factors in his puzzle ratings: how well the puzzles fit in with and support the story, and the extent to which puzzle difficulty correlates with importance of the obstacle (what Emily Short calls "pacing"). For example, I give Grim Fandango major demerits because the puzzles don't support the story, and actually seem pretty inconsistent with Manny's characterization (reliant as many of them are on wanton destruction and psychopathic manipulation). And as for something like Still Life, the idea of making cookie-baking one of the most difficult puzzles in a game about catching a serial killer is just... bizarre. (TLJ is also guilty of an almost inverse relationship between puzzle difficulty and in-game importance.) Don't even get me started on everything that's wrong with Dreamfall's gameplay.

[AndreaDraco83]

I found the article by Steve Metzler quite interesting indeed, and I quite always agree with his evaluations, although I'd probably rate lower Tunguska and The Lost Crown.

[Ascovel]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

For example, I give Grim Fandango major demerits because the puzzles don't support the story, and actually seem pretty inconsistent with Manny's characterization (reliant as many of them are on wanton destruction and psychopathic manipulation).

Could you elaborate on those puzzles? Your description goes completely against my own experiences. As far as Manny's characterisation goes, he striked me as a well-mannered cunning pragmatic always ready to tweak things to his gain - perfect for all kinds of behind the scene manipulations like sabotaging equipment and such.

[metzomagic]

Folks, hi,

Hey, thanks for the feedback on my Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? articles. I was so intent on reading all the articles that 'After a brisk nap' linked to in the OP that I never noticed my own articles were linked to right underneath that

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

Thanks! The article by Steve Metzler was interesting, though I don't think there's anything new on his list of puzzle types (apparently implicitly a list of bad puzzle types, in his opinion). I also think Steve misses a couple of important factors in his puzzle ratings: how well the puzzles fit in with and support the story, and the extent to which puzzle difficulty correlates with importance of the obstacle (what Emily Short calls "pacing"). For example, I give Grim Fandango major demerits because the puzzles don't support the story, and actually seem pretty inconsistent with Manny's characterization (reliant as many of them are on wanton destruction and psychopathic manipulation). And as for something like Still Life, the idea of making cookie-baking one of the most difficult puzzles in a game about catching a serial killer is just... bizarre. (TLJ is also guilty of an almost inverse relationship between puzzle difficulty and in-game importance.) Don't even get me started on everything that's wrong with Dreamfall's gameplay.

How well the puzzles integrated with the game was factored into the score I gave to each game. A game with a lot of abstract puzzles that didn't fit in at all with the story would have got a Poor rating at least. As for what you call 'pacing'... yeah, I could have elaborated a bit more on the puzzle difficulty. But I was afraid of the articles becoming overly long, what with the average attention span attributed to surfers nowadays.

I disagree that the puzzles in Grim Fandango were inconsistent with Manny's characterization. I definitely have him pegged as psychotic

I specifically mentioned the Still Life cookie-baking puzzle in my article as being of dubious merit... and in retrospect, I should have rated Dreamfall as Poor. See the commentary from Wednesday, 20th August, 2008 at http://metzomagic.com/

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83

I found the article by Steve Metzler quite interesting indeed, and I quite always agree with his evaluations, although I'd probably rate lower Tunguska and The Lost Crown.

Well spotted. My 'tilt' for both those games was to just above Average, so they just barely scraped by with a Good. Didn't want to start messing around with half stars and such.

In any case, the point of the articles was to try and highlight the fact that the quality of the puzzle design in adventure games seems to be declining over time. All I see in most modern games is great graphics and sound, with noticeable mediocrity on the game play side of things.

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

[Sar]

metzomagic ( Steve )

I agree with you almost 100 percent in your excellent article as I do with the Ron Gilbert one. Where I differ is in Lost Crown where I found more than one puzzle off putting, coupled with the atrocious voice acting I jettisoned the game well before finishing it.

One puzzle in particular you did not single out was collection of the vegies for the stew. It was filler but worse than that, the likelihood of being assigned that task was far fetched. Imagine a strange man approaching a woman in a fairly isolated setting being given free reign of her home and then allowed to doctor the soup. I had not yet determined this woman was or was not a ghost. If she was already dead no danger. But as a player it struck me as "yeah right"

The millstone puzzle, well

Spoiler:

I adjust the first using the oak sticks. Went to the second, fixed that, I then got mistakenly turned around ending up at the first. For fun I peeked through the hole and what do you know the church appeared. Consulting a walk through I discovered I was supposed to interact with the others as well but did not.

It was the voice acting that turned me off. This was supposed to be a scary game. But how can you react to that when the main character is totally unmoved by events and his affect is so flat he appears to be sleep walking. As a player my reaction was "How can I be care about Niles if Niles shows no emotion and appears totally unconcerned?"

To quote Ron Gilbert's article, "As the story builds, we are pulled into the game and leave the real world behind." You can't reach that point if the characters have a flat affect. No not a puzzle issue and perhaps not relevant for this discussion. However, this in particular when reinforced by letter gathering, pursuit of wild veggies and defective puzzles adds a mind set to this player best expressed as "get me outta here."

Anyway Steve great articles, thank you.

[metzomagic]

Sar, hi.

Glad you enjoyed the articles. Regarding The Lost Crown millstone puzzle:

Spoiler:

You got lucky. Presumably, you were playing with the millstones, and just happened to have the other two rotated to the correct positions. The odds of that happening, BTW, are 1/4 * 1/4 = 1/16

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

[After a brisk nap]

Originally Posted by After a brisk nap

There's reference to an AGDZine article by one Blake Speers, but it's gone 404. Maybe someone has it backed up somewhere?

Yay, it's here! And a very comprehensive list it is, too.

[orient]

A very good resource. Thanks for collecting, After a brisk nap

I skimmed through your articles Metzomagic and from the games that I have played, I agreed with most of your ratings. Runaway - simply terrible puzzles. A waste of $20. Broken Sword 3 - I didn't mind the platforming puzzles as I felt they were appropriate to the theme and setting of the game, but far too many crate-pushing puzzles (a couple wouldn't have hurt). Still, not as poor as Broken Sword 4. Still Life - I really loved this game, but did use a guide for the two puzzles mentioned, the cookies and the lock-picking. My opinion probably differs from yours here as I don't think a single static puzzle should ever take 1-2 hours to figure out (a common estimate from people who've played the game), no matter how logical it may seem to some. My in-game character probably wouldn't sit around for hours trying to pick a lock, so why should I? I just want to know what happens next.

I guess the only game I would strongly disagree with you on is Secret Files: Tunguska. I think you downplay the sheer amount of "McGyver-like" puzzles. Apart from a select few activities, that game is full of completely ridiculous and oftentimes illogical item usage. I was so sick of getting stuck that by the time I reached the last level I was just mindlessly following a guide to get to the end.

[After a brisk nap]

No problem, Orient.

Let's link Mark's article here too, before I forget:

• Adventure game puzzles: unlocking the secrets of puzzle design by Mark Newheiser

[metzomagic]

Originally Posted by orient

I guess the only game I would strongly disagree with you on is Secret Files: Tunguska. I think you downplay the sheer amount of "McGyver-like" puzzles. Apart from a select few activities, that game is full of completely ridiculous and oftentimes illogical item usage. I was so sick of getting stuck that by the time I reached the last level I was just mindlessly following a guide to get to the end.

orient, hi,

Thanks for reading the articles. I suppose there are always going to be games that some people subjectively like more than others simply due to the style of the puzzles. Secret Files: Tunguska is one of those games. I find that people either love it or hate it. There seems to be very little middle ground.

Regards,
MetzO'Magic

[Dara100]

MetzO'Magic, just wanted to thank you for hosting the old Quandary files. I've referred to them a number of times. They're a resource that shouldn't be lost and are sorely missed.

Thanks again

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by Ascovel

Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part I)
Where Have All the Puzzles Gone? (Part II)

Interesting articles. Thank you!

[Mohlin]

You havn't mentioned the worst "puzzle" ever. The try-every-possible-combination to open that door, get that thing moving or lower the bridge or whatever.
You know a combination lock, 5 figures on 5 sticks, but you cannot find the right order anywhere.
Or the absolutely awful thing in Myst Exile (I think), in what I called the chinese world (because of the red buildings). You had to get this glass ball through a type of labyrinth, and to do this you had to put sticks in some holes in a certain combination, and then up to a controlpanel and put other sticks in other combinations, but to get from the first place to the controlpanel you had to wade through the water, round a courner, up a ladder, turn left and try the panel. No, it failed. OK, round the corner, down the ladder, turn right, wade throug the water, move the stick, wade through the water, round the courner, up the ladder, turn left and try the panel. No that failed too..ok round the corner, down the ladder.......find the walkthrough.

I hate this. It is not puzzlesolving, it is bad game design and to find this in "respected" games like Myst is bad, bad.

[metzomagic]

Mohlin, hi,

The type of puzzle you refer to is commonly called 'twiddleware', where you have insufficient clues in the environment, or insufficient feedback from a complex device you are trying to manipulate, and you wind up just guessing.

I agree that from Myst III onwards, a lot of the puzzles were at least bordering on twiddleware. I gave up partway through Myst IV: Revelation because of this.

Cheers,
MetzO'Magic

[MarkN]

I've actually read through all these pieces by now (although I have yet to exhaust the interactive fiction wiki), figured I'd share my thoughts. (I wrote the pieces on interfaces and puzzles that are linked)

The single most interesting piece was The Craft of Adventure, mostly for providing an in-depth history of the genre as it relates to text adventures and the Zork days. There's a more expanded version of that essay as part of a larger manual based around a text-adventure scripting engine which goes into a lot of depth about Infocom as well as game design principles that I'd highly recommend: http://ifarchive.giga.or.at/if-archi...s_manual_4.pdf

The most common complaints about bad puzzles:

• Mazes. The genre started out with them, but they're considered poor form unless there's a way to get through them aside from brute-force mapping. The same criticisms apply to many self-contained puzzles that only serve as roadblocks.
• Puzzles that are just flat out illogical or irrational, or rely on external knowledge the player has no way of knowing.
• Puzzles that are only solvable by trial and error, pixel hunting, verb guessing, or repeated actions. As a particularly bad example, the necessary trial and error regularly kills the player.
• Puzzles where an area magically opens up as the result of some unrelated action. (a bad implicit information puzzle in my scheme)
• Repetitive fetch quests with no interesting twist
  

Other common themes in talking about puzzles are avoiding unwinnable states, tying the puzzles to the story and the player's goals, providing useful feedback when the player attempts an interaction that seems plausible but is not correct, and giving the player enough options or parallel puzzles to solve to where they're not stuck just doing one thing.

Most of the articles are centered around the old days of interactive fiction and text adventures, possibly because there was (and is still to some extent) such a large community of people playing and designing text adventures, and there's a huge number of fan-made works. (perhaps adventure game players/writers have been less prolific) Yahtzee's piece on puzzles and mine on interfaces are the only ones I really saw drawing connections between the old text adventures and modern adventure games, or comparing different eras of games.

Yahtzee made some similar points in his essay to my piece on interfaces, talking about how the move away from parsers simplified the means of interaction and the precision to which you had to specify what you wanted to do. He talked about some alternatives to brute force "keyring" fiddling with inventory objects, I list a few more in my article.

There are quite a few systems of laying out puzzles mentioned, I obviously prefer my own, abstracting according to self-contained puzzles and puzzles requiring some external key(an item, piece of information, or internal change to the game's state), basically dividing up puzzles according to what's necessary for the player to solve the puzzle. Most of the other pieces on types of puzzles tend to be exhaustive lists of common puzzles, but I particularly liked the piece, designing the puzzle, it talked about puzzles in terms of the inferences the player needed to make to solve them.

It's interesting that "interactive fiction"/text adventures have apparently received the most scholarly attention for their similarity to literature, and that the writings and resources surrounding techniques for making IF games appears to be the most exhaustive, the Adventure Game Studio pages don't go nearly as much detail on game design. Maybe graphic adventure games haven't had the time to catch up, or the audience is still younger, or the community less concentrated. (or the amount of effort involved in making a graphic adventure is so much higher than fewer people try and need extensive training)

[Erwin_Br]

21 Adventure Game Design Tips by Bill Tiller and Larry Ahern might be of use as well.

[metzomagic]

Erwin_Br, hi,

Originally Posted by Erwin_Br

21 Adventure Game Design Tips by Bill Tiller and Larry Ahern might be of use as well.

That's actually quite a good article, and I enjoyed reading it. However, concerning A Vampyre Story, I can't help but think that Bill Tiller should have followed his own advice concerning the casting of the lead voice:

16) Don't underestimate the importance of music, voice acting, and sound effects.

Music sets the mood and the emotional state for your game. Sound effects make your images come to life. Great character voices are so very important. Be especially careful whom you cast as your main characters. A miscast lead character with an irritating or otherwise inappropriate voice can ruin an otherwise successful game. Great casting choices, on the other hand, elevate a pretty good game to a higher level.

(my emphasis added)

Mona's voice seems to be one of the biggest issues with AVS.

Regards,
MetzO'Magic