[hern]

Have U ever play Chronomaster? Is it a good game? Is it abadonware, or not?

[colpet]

I have the game, and played it on my Win95. It was very complex as there were so many verb commands plus some equipment to use to play the game. I needed a WT to get through most of it. I played it relatively early in my 'career', when I used to finish games no matter what. Had I played it more recently I probably wouldn't have finished it.

[mart]

But it's a pretty good game, and like Normality, a bit underestimated I think. It is much better than most recent games, so go for it! It's abandonware, but it isn't a free game, as far as I know. Copies pop up frequently on eBay.

[Henke]

It must be 10 years since I played it. I remember thinking it was rather fun though. If I remember it correctly you get to walk through some famous paintings in something that can only be described as an acid trip (you also walked on the ceiling and green things started growing from your head). Go for it if you can find it.

[PolloDiablo]

Being 'abandonware' does NOT make it legal to download. It's just a term some people have come up with to justify their illegal actions. They think games that have been released over (insert random number) years ago 'should' be free. But the copyright-holders haven't given their permission so it's not legal.

[Gabe]

The game was fully downloadable from underdogs and they're not illegal.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by Gabe

The game was fully downloadable from underdogs and they're not illegal.

That doesn't really mean much to me. I think Underdogs was trying to make sure it didn't have illegal downloads, however, I don't think all of their downloads are still okay. I don't know if the publisher of Chronomaster, Intracorp, has officially given up the license and the game is truly freeware. I haven't heard of such a thing. If anyone knows, please provide a source.

[stepurhan]

Actually Underdogs is operating illegally, a fact they admit in their About page. (My emboldening. Can't link as they host abandonware)

Originally Posted by Underdogs

Underdogs while not an abandonware site per se (since our aim is to pay tribute to all underdogs, both new and old), supports the abandonware idea. We believe that providing games that have been abandoned by their publishers, while technically illegal, is a valuable service to the gaming community because these games are in danger of disappearing into obscurity, and their copyright holders no longer derive any revenues from them.

Abandonware has no legal standing. All it really means is the copyright holder is not actively promoting their property now. This doesn't mean they won't want to in the future and free downloads now will affect whether they can do that as a commercial proposition. In fairness to Underdogs they have a stated policy of actively seeking permission (and of pulling links if a copyright holder objects) but that doesn't make it legal.

With regards to Chronomaster, we'll have to consider it abandonware (and hence delete any links here in accordance with the forum FAQ) until someone can show the copyright holder has released it for free distribution.

There is an old thread where abandonware was discussed here. It's probably best to take any discussion about the concept in general out of this thread though a new thread may be appropriate as that one is a year and a half old.

[Gabe]

It's says technically illegal not otherwise.

[Melanie68]

Technical works for us and it doesn't matter if you or anyone else doesn't agree with it here. Our policy is that we won't allow links to their game downloads or condone people downloading something, for which the copyright has not been let go of by the holder.

[crabapple]

You can find Chronomaster pretty cheap at Amazon or eBay.
There's actually a copy at Amazon for 69 cents.

[ozzie]

Nice. Can I ask why my post got deleted?

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by ozzie

Nice. Can I ask why my post got deleted?

Because you were telling the original poster that it would be no problem to download from Underdogs and we don't want any open encouragement of that. We obviously don't allow links to illegal downloads but we also don't want the behavior encouraged on here (especially since I had just gotten done saying right before you posted the first time:

Originally Posted by Melanie

Our policy is that we won't allow links to their game downloads or condone people downloading something, for which the copyright has not been let go of by the holder.

[ozzie]

Strange, but I guess it would have been okay then if I said that it's no problem to download it from Abandonia, at least that wasn't a bother in another thread.
Aside from this, I never posted a link to an abandonware site and feel quite offended that my post was just deleted without any explanation.
When you post a link to an abandonware site, only the link gets removed and the mod states why this happened. But my post was deleted as a whole though it contained more than just the stuff about The Underdogs.
All in all I actually recommended to buy it from eBay, as I did it myself. But I guess since I just showed a care-free attitude about abandonware it was reason enough to delete the whole post.

[Dale Baldwin]

Originally Posted by ozzie

Strange, but I guess it would have been okay then if I said that it's no problem to download it from Abandonia, at least that wasn't a bother in another thread.

The difference is that the game being recommended to download from that site was freeware. Chronomaster is not, and there lies the problem.

[ozzie]

So, it's a problem to state facts?

I understand your reasoning why it's not allowed to post links to abandonware sites, since they're legally dubious at best.
I didn't do this anyway. Neither did I provoke someone to download abandonware since I didn't say something like it's stupid to buy the game when you can download it for free.
In fact I said that eBay would be the better option.

Downloading abandonware may be illegal, but discussing it?

[Dale Baldwin]

From the FAQ, and I'm considering this the end of this discussion:

Any messages soliciting or promoting warez will be immediately deleted and posting privileges will be revoked.

Letting people know where they can download a non-free game for free consitutes soliciting warez.

Since you also just reposted what was deleted, I have removed that. I suggest you don't post it again.

[ozzie]

[edit]
Sorry Dave, I didn't read your last post properly the first time around, otherwise I would have corrected you immediately.
Warez =/= Abandonware!
Games which still stand in stores and are unrightfully distributed through various channels (torrent, shady webpages, burned and sold copies...) are called warez. The publisher / developer still makes money with those titles and loses it through these "pirated" copies.
Games that still have a copyright holder, but aren't sold anymore, are called abandonware. The publisher / developer doesn't lose any money when someone offers them for free on the internet without any granted right, which is the reason why many people consider abandonware morally acceptable.
Well, freeware games that were previously commercial products and aren't sold any more in any way are also considered abandonware, like Lure of the Temptress or Flight of the Amazon Queen.

Would be cool if you knew your own rules better, Dave.
[/edit]

Well, I could go on and on about how silly it is to delete the statement that a certain abandonware game can be downloaded on a certain abandonware site (I hope this statement is safe enough).

But my initial question was why the whole post got deleted, not just the abandonware stuff, but even the other parts. Additionally, the removal was neither mentioned or explained, heck, I even wasn't sure anymore if I really wrote that post. That is what offended me, not just the censoring of how and where the download of the game would be possible, but also everything else. It was tidily swept under the carpet.

If you don't see it the same way, then I don't think I want to be further in a community with such mods. Not that you have to care about it.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by ozzie

[edit]
Sorry Dave, I didn't read your last post properly the first time around, otherwise I would have corrected you immediately.
Warez =/= Abandonware!
Games which still stand in stores and are unrightfully distributed through various channels (torrent, shady webpages, burned and sold copies...) are called warez. The publisher / developer still makes money with those titles and loses it through these "pirated" copies.
Games that still have a copyright holder, but aren't sold anymore, are called abandonware. The publisher / developer doesn't lose any money when someone offers them for free on the internet without any granted right, which is the reason why many people consider abandonware morally acceptable.
Well, freeware games that were previously commercial products and aren't sold any more in any way are also considered abandonware, like Lure of the Temptress or Flight of the Amazon Queen.

Would be cool if you knew your own rules better, Dave.
[/edit]

I believe Dale said he wasn't going to argue this, but I will step in. We really don't care if you think warez doesn't equal abandonware. For this site, neither sits well with us. This thread is NOT the place to discuss the ins and outs of either in general terms. It isn't up to you to decide the legality and merits of abandonware as they apply to this site. It's up to us. You visit our house, you abide by our rules. We have no flexibility when it comes to abandonware and warez. Period.

Well, I could go on and on about how silly it is to delete the statement that a certain abandonware game can be downloaded on a certain abandonware site (I hope this statement is safe enough).

But my initial question was why the whole post got deleted, not just the abandonware stuff, but even the other parts. Additionally, the removal was neither mentioned or explained, heck, I even wasn't sure anymore if I really wrote that post. That is what offended me, not just the censoring of how and where the download of the game would be possible, but also everything else. It was tidily swept under the carpet.

If you don't see it the same way, then I don't think I want to be further in a community with such mods. Not that you have to care about it.

And we could go on and on as to why we deleted it. I could have patiently explained to you why we deleted it, but I didn't. Things don't always work the way I want them too. But we, as mods, also get sick of having to explain our rules over and over again.

[Jackal]

Originally Posted by ozzie

I'm not sure how easy it is to get it in the english-speaking territory, but in Germany I got a boxed copy after looking for it for some time on eBay...

I'm not sure if the game is good, since I only watched the intro so far.

There you go. Reinstated. Would have been far less hassle to just repost these two lines, no?

The rest of this argument is pointless.