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Old 07-16-2008, 01:14 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kurufinwe View Post
Let me put it this way: The Last Express is not about some guy who got killed by an old flame because he was seeing another woman. The game's plot is deeply tied to the historical context of the time. The crumbling of the old absolute monarchies in Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia and the Ottoman empire; the lasting hatred between France and Germany, which were just looking for an excuse to go to war again; the rise of a new industrial bourgeoisie, rendered extremely rich and powerful by capitalism and the industrial revolution; the emergence of a class of urban, educated workers, organising themselves in unions and communist and socialist parties, with the help of some of the intellectual class; the rising nationalist tensions all over Europe, from Ireland to the Balkans: all these elements are somewhat relevant to the plot. So if you feel that you already know all of this, or if you think you can gather most of it from the conversations in the game, fine. Otherwise, read the paper.


But it's boring. I didn't know when I came in here I was going to have to take history lessons!
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:18 AM   #22
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As you may or may not have gathered from the newspaper cutting Cath is carrying, he is wanted by the police for helping Irish nationalists. The last thing he wants is to draw attention to himself.
I did get the newspaper clipping, but would never have deduced that Cath was the one responsible. I thought about it briefly, but Cath seems to have green eyes on my screen, so that counted him out. I was under the impression that he and Tyler were trying to find the murderer.
It's not a very good start when I've missed one big chunk of the plot.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:26 AM   #23
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I did get the newspaper clipping, but would never have deduced that Cath was the one responsible. I thought about it briefly, but Cath seems to have green eyes on my screen, so that counted him out. I was under the impression that he and Tyler were trying to find the murderer.
It's not a very good start when I've missed one big chunk of the plot.
Don't worry, I did the same the first time around, and only realised what was going on later on in the game (when Cath's past is mentioned again).
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:12 AM   #24
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Hello! Long time lurker here, first time poster. Talk a fair bit when i do post, so probably won't shut up now I've started; hope it's ok to jump onboard the thread

Boring intro bit First impressions of The Last Express: interesting, but a bit daunting. It's an AG I've intended to play for a long time, so the playthrough was well-timed for me. I even started this briefly about a year ago (friend's copy - thanks ) and after some silly dead body-related mistakes I got pretty much to the first stopping point here before getting sidetracked playing other stuff. Shockingly, this is the first time I've been back on it since. Plus at some point I must have uninstalled it

When I started TLE before I felt like I was missing too much of the plot and one-off opportunities to do things, which I suspected might cause problems later. It seemed as though you needed to have played through the game already in order to know what to do, or make the best choices. With hindsight I think for me it would have helped to just have the first section with either no timer, or to be a bit more forgiving and slower than it seems to be, then make the timer kick in properly once you've got used to the game's own style a little more. And as a game it does feel unique, which is a good thing; just takes a bit of adjusting when things don't work quite as you'd expect them to.

Second time around at starting this and I'm finding it easier to deal with. It's no problem orientating myself around the train, whereas before I wasted chunks of time doing this. And that clock really goes fast! That's still putting me off, as I'd much prefer to explore things at my own pace, but I don't mind it so much. I've got a copy of the strategy guide and used it just to check up on the broad goals that I needed to do in this section then, after getting to Epernay, to review what I'd done and what I'd missed. But I don't want to end up using it as a walkthrough so might stop doing that soon.

Animation style is cool, though it took a couple of minutes to get into. I'm finding it works fine in the game and during automatic conversations but looked strange in the opening cutscene; much of that felt like it was missing movement. The characterisation so far is brilliant and walking past independant 'real' conversations is great fun, and (after playing a *lot* of AGs) again feels unique; I'd guess this is where the real-time aspect comes through the best, and is a good enough reason for using it. It still feels like I'm being hit with 100 things to do at once, though I quite like that! So long as I can go back to the important/ fun things I've missed later without massive backtracking... Will find out as the game progresses, which I am looking forward to after a great first section

I'm still finding out what's going on and working out what I should be doing - there's a lot unanswered at the moment, but that's as you'd expect. Be a bit disappointing if everything was obvious already, so is not a problem for me! One downside so far is that I think time passes even as you're reading in-game documents, newspapers etc, which puts me off trying to as I get the nagging feeling I'm missing out on something more important elsewhere if I use time to read through everything as I'd like. It feels like the game's going pretty quickly, and I'm surprised how soon I'd got to the end of the first playthrough section. Or maybe just embarrassed at how little I'd done the first time round, seeing as I'd stopped at the same point I'm now at

Spoilery gameplay-specific stuff, I've
Spoiler:
disposed of Tyler's body through the window already, so am expecting the police to board at the start of the next section. Seems a bit odd that you can understand spoken Russian, but not written Russian and have to ask Alexei to read the scroll. I also found the fight with Milos at the end quite awkward, took a few attempts and I felt I'd won a bit randomly. Strategy guide says keep stepping back from the lunges and when it appears, use the arm grab icon as he sideswipes you; this wouldn't work for me and the time I eventually managed to disarm Milos, I'd never knowingly clicked the grab icon and was a bit bemused. I do play a lot of action/ FPS etc, though oddly don't much care for action sequences when I play AGs (to be fair, when they happen they're normally crap!); anyway, was maybe me just having an off day . FWIW I hadn't guessed that Cath was involved with the shooting in the newspaper clipping, only know cos the strategy guide mentioned it!


Anyway. Is cool to take part in the playthrough, and I'll probably see you some time in other threads
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:40 AM   #25
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What scroll?
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:52 AM   #26
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What scroll?
It came from Tyler's cabin.
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:55 AM   #27
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Is it important?
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:26 AM   #28
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Well, it's hard for me to give my first impressions of a game I have already played several times. I know I've said it before but both the dialogues and the voiceacting are first-class: The way the English woman says "Sophie!" when Sophie is being provocative, the stylish way Anna snubbs Cath, me standing outside Milos' door eavesdropping and hearing Tyler's name mentioned repeatedly without understanding a word of the conversation... wonderful!

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You're probably missing that if you're not French, but the actress who plays the engineer's wife is particularly great; she really is the perfect embodiment of the useless, dumb, self-satisfied bourgeoise.
I can't help feeling sorry for poor Madame Boutarel, who will be stuck in the desert for a long time, with an indifferent husband and a weird child, and nowhere to go.

@colpet:

Yes, the newspaper clipping, but there's more subtle info that Cath wants to travel incognito. Have you read both telegrams? One in Cath's inventory, one in Tyler's bag. His name is not on the passenger list. He doesn't mention his name to the conductor and even lets him think he is Tyler before he knows Tyler is dead. So of course he would be the obvious suspect when Tyler's body is discovered.

@Moriarty:

I agree one hundred percent with Kurufinwe about the importance of the historical background. For instance, Milos' Black Hand and his general ("What am I going to tell the general?") did exist. But the TLE story itself is fantasy. So if you find the newspaper too boring to read, you will be able to understand the unfolding plot.

@The Doctor:

Welcome to Adventure Gamers! Hope you will keep posting your comments. I agree that the clock and the different format can be daunting at first, although I was absolutely enchanted the first time I played TLE and didn't mind the running around one little bit, the eavesdropping was so rewarding.

I bought the strategy guide last year, after I'd already played the game twice. In my not very humble opinion, you would deprive yourself of a lot of fun if you used it to see what things are absolutely necessary each day. Play it by ear, just like Cath. After all, he doesn't have the faintest idea what's going on either. You can always ask for a hint here if you're stuck.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:28 AM   #29
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Is it important?
Yes.

No wonder you have finished so soon. Why don't you start a second game (different color egg) so as not to mess up your save, and try to do things differently or explore the train more thoroughly?
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:51 AM   #30
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Okay.

I don't like the way this game treats new players. If I don't understand what's going on, it should rush me through the plot and get to a half-satisfying ending so that I get a general sense of what's going on. Then I can replay it. But I'm needing to replay over and over right from the very beginning. (I've already had to restart a few times.) I don't like that at all. This game seems to be very interesting on replaying, but I'm not so likely to replay a game I can barely enjoy the first time I play it.

Wait- when you say "explore the train more thoroughly", do you mean "try walking into every single room until you find something"?

And if you do, how does that make any sense for the plot? Cath is trying to stay under the radar!

Last edited by Dale Baldwin; 07-16-2008 at 01:07 PM. Reason: merged
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:05 AM   #31
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Okay.

I don't like the way this game treats new players. If I don't understand what's going on, it should rush me through the plot and get to a half-satisfying ending so that I get a general sense of what's going on. Then I can replay it. But I'm needing to replay over and over right from the very beginning. (I've already had to restart a few times.) I don't like that at all. This game seems to be very interesting on replaying, but I'm not so likely to replay a game I can barely enjoy the first time I play it.
What's wrong with not understanding when you're not supposed to understand much yet? Isn't it fun to try and put two and two together as people make demands on you and lots of things start to happen? You find it boring to read newspapers, I find it boring when everything is spelled out for me.

I know you're not the only one who complains about having to fail and maybe replay a section many times in order to discover the correct solution to a problem. It's like you have to die in order to understand what you have to do to stay alive. However, I still feel the game is fair. For instance, Cath's jacket is a real mess after he has disposed of Tyler, he even looks at the blood. That's a hint.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:10 AM   #32
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Wait- when you say "explore the train more thoroughly", do you mean "try walking into every single room until you find something"?
Well, don't you want to find out who killed your pal Tyler? And what are all these people talking about... gold and merchandise (Schmidt), gold (Milos), deal and a "rather heavy briefcase" (Kronos).

Quote:
And if you do, how does that make any sense for the plot? Cath is trying to stay under the radar!
Yes, but he is now Tyler Whitney, at least for the time being, so why does he have to stay under the radar?
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:17 AM   #33
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He should want to stay under the radar because suspicious behavior is suspicious behavior no matter what name he uses. He's running away from some crime or other, so why wouldn't he be more cautious than usual?

I'm replaying the whole thing, this time knocking on every single door. I've gotta say, it makes me feel uncomfortable doing this; not only does it make me stand out in the eyes of absolutely everyone, but it's just plain rude.

Anyway, I've seen exactly the same things so far except for some piece of cloth in Whitney's room. I can't tell what it's supposed to look like; is that the scroll?

I've gotten used to the controls by now, so moving Cath around doesn't feel like a constant struggle anymore.

When Cath first meets Schmidt, how does he already know who he is?
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:19 AM   #34
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OK, now it's time for a few random things, that some may have missed. Note that if you want to try things out, you can just copy your save (blue.egg) to red.egg; which will allow you to keep your current save, and have another one for experiments (obviously, you could also just restart from the beginning, but I doubt you'll want to do that by the time we reach the 3rd CD). OK, random highlights:

1) It's interesting that Jaurès was supposed to be on the train, and finally decided not to come (bad decision; getting away from Paris would have been good for his health ). I have no idea if this has a historical basis, of it's something the writers invented. You might say it's a good thing he wasn't on board, though, as there doesn't seem to be a free cabin for him!

2) For the umpteenth time, I almost missed the scarf in Tyler's cabin, and only went back to retrieve it when I first saw Anna Wolf and remembered about it. Her reaction when you try handing it to her (twice!) is great.

3) Why do Anna and Schmidt talk to each other in English instead of German?! I guess there are some realism problems even in this game.

4) Did you find the conductor's sketchbook? It's a nice little Easter egg of sorts. And more sketches are added as the game progresses.

5) I saw a little scene I had never seen on my previous playthroughs (this game is just huge; I don't even want to think about the budget that went into it): when the conductor visits all the cabins to make the beds, he tries to enter the Turk's harem – and gets insulted and almost attacked as a result!

6) Another little scene that's easy to miss: after you talk to Kronos, his pet panther bodyguard Kahina tries to get into Anna's cabin, but must give up because of the dog.

7) Note that if you look at the passenger's list, you can click on the names of the people you've met, and hear a "typical" line from them (those change as the story progresses). I found on my first playthrough that this acts as a good reminder of who is who, and what is going on. (And the choice of quotes is nice too; currently, Rebecca's is her trademark indignant 'Sophie!'. And Anna's interesting too – fits her to a T. )

Speaking of which, I must say that the characters that made the biggest impression on me in this first part were the two girls (Sophie and Rebecca). Even though it's still unclear why they're here, or even what their relationship exactly is (on my first playthrough, I think that by that point I had already started wondering if I wasn't over-interpreting things), you can really grasp the dynamic of their relationship, the difference of attitudes (Sophie completely liberated and, as Fienepien said, provocative, Rebecca shy) and social standing (see how Sophie chides Rebecca for even considering having dinner early – which the upper society would not do; by the way, that probably tells us something about Schmidt, who did have dinner early). Sophie both feels younger, freer, less worried, and yet older, acting like a teacher to Rebecca, showing her her world. And you can already see that Rebecca feels both attracted to it, and yet sometimes shocked, clinging to the (obviously very different) education she's received. We'll have time to discuss Anna, and Kronos, and all the others later, but for the moment I find that it's really Sophie and Rebecca who steal the spotlight.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:51 AM   #35
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This game consistently makes me want to scream.

Now I'm even more confused than before. I played through, this time clicking on everything I could think to click on, and though I got to a few different places and saw the scarf, it didn't illuminate or change anything at all. And then there was the police inspection, and I never got to Epernay! Instead there was some place called Chalons or something. I've done something wrong again, haven't I?

This is so hair-pullingly frustrating. I'm sure it's very pleasant for you guys, because you remember how the story is supposed to go. But I have no idea how this is supposed to progress. So when I do something, I always feel like I've messed up. And when I don't do anything, I always feel like I've messed up. AAAAAAHHH!!

Oh, and I take back what I said: Navigating is a struggle.

I have a serious question for whoever happens to be here: Sure, on the fifth or sixth time through playing the game might be fun. I can believe that. But how on Earth did you enjoy this game the first time you played?

And one other question: Is this going to get less impenetrable as it goes on, or more?

Last edited by Dale Baldwin; 07-17-2008 at 07:35 AM. Reason: squish
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:26 PM   #36
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Note that if you want to try things out, you can just copy your save (blue.egg) to red.egg;
How do I do that, copy my save? You mean, outside the game?

@Moriarty:

Relax, Mory. Accept the game on its own terms and have fun.

Try searching Tyler's luggage for the scroll (look up in his compartment).
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:54 PM   #37
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Is there an easy place to buy this in the UK? Even on Ebay it looks elusive...
There are 16 TLEs available at gametz.com.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:59 PM   #38
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How do I do that, copy my save? You mean, outside the game?
Yup. Go to whatever folder the game's installed in, find the file blue.egg and copy it to red.egg.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:59 AM   #39
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Relax, Mory. Accept the game on its own terms and have fun.
Its own terms are "We won't tell you what to do. Hey, you did the wrong thing. Do it again!" Where does the fun come in?

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Try searching Tyler's luggage for the scroll (look up in his compartment).
Couldn't you have told me this before I played through the whole thing twice? Looks like I'll have to start over again!
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:48 AM   #40
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It seems this game, despite aiming for realism, is best when its flow is broken. How odd. Now I'm playing through tiny little sections over and over to try and find the hidden branches, making copies of my save as necessary. It seems more manageable now.
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