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-   -   Gray matter: official site / hype / marketing and publishing (https://adventuregamers.com/archive/forums/adventure/21703-gray-matter-official-site-hype-marketing-publishing.html)

misslilo 02-24-2008 01:39 AM

I believe, that if you made poll here Gray Matter would still come in as #1.

JustAdventure did it, and there's no doubt over there which game the readers are looking forward to :)

g_sakil 02-24-2008 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Baldwin (Post 460619)
The Hype-o-meter is simply what the AG team think are the currently most hyped games

Am I not allowed to critisize the AG team opinions?

Dale Baldwin 02-24-2008 02:04 AM

Sure you are, but I have no idea why you're bringing up 'integrity'.

AndreaDraco83 02-24-2008 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Baldwin (Post 460625)
Sure you are, but I have no idea why you're bringing up 'integrity'.

I assume that other people don't like Gray Matter being the first in the Hype-o-Meter, 'cause they want to see other games in that spot. And it's easy to see conspiracy: maybe they think Anaconda or Jane Jensen are spying...

Seriously, I don't know... but the word "integrity" sound way too exaggerated. And, as Misslilo said, I also think that a poll could show that Gray Matter really is the most hyped game.

Ksandra 02-25-2008 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 (Post 460634)
I assume that other people don't like Gray Matter being the first in the Hype-o-Meter, 'cause they want to see other games in that spot. And it's easy to see conspiracy: maybe they think Anaconda or Jane Jensen are spying...

Seriously, I don't know... but the word "integrity" sound way too exaggerated. And, as Misslilo said, I also think that a poll could show that Gray Matter really is the most hyped game.

Thing is, it's not just reader opinions that the Hype-o-Meter is supposed to take into account. The site FAQ states that "The rankings are determined based on a combination of forum polls, reader feedback and the assessment of the Adventure Gamers team of preview material and press demos" (my italics). Obviously I don't suspect a 'conspiracy' or anything like that, but I can't help thinking that this kind of attitude only encourages developers to be lazy with updates. Why should they bother keeping their fans updated when people are still hyping the game to the skies after months with no new information?

stepurhan 02-25-2008 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460757)
Thing is, it's not just reader opinions that the Hype-o-Meter is supposed to take into account. The site FAQ states that "The rankings are determined based on a combination of forum polls, reader feedback and the assessment of the Adventure Gamers team of preview material and press demos" (my italics). Obviously I don't suspect a 'conspiracy' or anything like that, but I can't help thinking that this kind of attitude only encourages developers to be lazy with updates. Why should they bother keeping their fans updated when people are still hyping the game to the skies after months with no new information?

Surely an evaluation of preview material and press demos is likely to include how current they are. If updates are coming out saying the same thing then an evaluation of them is going to get a game marked down. (because the company isn't doing anything to sustain the hype)

At the end of the day something like the Hype-o-Meter is always going to be open to charges of bias because you can't tell for sure why a game is placed where it is. It's the reviews (where you get a full explanation of why a game is scored as it is) that really exhibit integrity.

Ksandra 02-25-2008 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepurhan (Post 460796)
Surely an evaluation of preview material and press demos is likely to include how current they are. If updates are coming out saying the same thing then an evaluation of them is going to get a game marked down. (because the company isn't doing anything to sustain the hype)

I don't entirely understand what point you're trying to make here. If there haven't been any updates at all, surely that should get a game marked down even further?

I'm not accusing the Hype-o-Meter of 'bias'; I'm just saying that this is something that should be taken into account at the next update. No matter how eagerly anticipated a game may be, keeping it at the no. 1 spot looks pretty silly when the official release date is approaching and we've had virtually no news in six months.

Jackal 02-25-2008 11:03 AM

Whoops, I haven't been following this thread lately. Just FYI, for those questioning Gray Matter's ranking, a new update will be done shortly and the game will be dropping.

The reasons it held #1 for so long are twofold: first, as some have suggested, I believe it would likely still top any fan poll of most-anticipated games, regardless of updates, and secondly, there just aren't any other games doing much better. At least, nothing that strikes me as deserving of the top spot.

That said, I'm gonna shake things up a bit momentarily. :D

g_sakil 02-25-2008 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460757)
preview material and press demos"

Exactly. Where are those? Just a few screenshots are enough to put it No.1? That's why I questioned the integrity of this choice

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460801)
No matter how eagerly anticipated a game may be, keeping it at the no. 1 spot looks pretty silly when the official release date is approaching and we've had virtually no news in six months.

I totally agree with you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal (Post 460802)
There just aren't any other games doing much better. At least, nothing that strikes me as deserving of the top spot.

Sinking Island? Overclocked? Still Life 2? None of them deserve to be No.1?

stepurhan 02-25-2008 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460801)
I don't entirely understand what point you're trying to make here. If there haven't been any updates at all, surely that should get a game marked down even further?

The point I was trying to make is that if previews and press demos are six months old (or recent ones are just recycling six month old info) then that would be taken into account. You seem to be saying that taking into account previews and press demos means sites saying "they haven't released anything new but the demo six months ago was great so we'll still hype it". I'm saying the situation is more like "the quality of the preview and press demo upped it's hype but there's been nothing new for awhile so taking into consideration the LACK OF fresh preview material it's going to drop".

I think essentially we're thinking along the same lines. If there aren't any updates then any evaluation should take into account the lack of recent updates regardless of the quality of any old updates.

However, speaking purely personally, I've seen a lot of discussion of Gray Matter in the forums and I haven't looked at the Hype-O-Meter in ages. It's therefore a game I'm more aware of because people are talking about it (rather than any site is hyping it) Maybe that indicates it does merit a place in the Hype-O-Meter. Whether it merits the number 1 position is always open to debate.

Jackal 02-25-2008 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g_sakil (Post 460815)
Exactly. Where are those? Just a few screenshots are enough to put it No.1? That's why I questioned the integrity of this choice

Integrity doesn't even enter this discussion, whether you disagree with the reasoning or not.

Quote:

Sinking Island? Overclocked? Still Life 2? None of them deserve to be No.1?
No, they don't. And only Overclocked has provided preview material more recently than Gray Matter, and that only very recently as it gears up for its release.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra
No matter how eagerly anticipated a game may be, keeping it at the no. 1 spot looks pretty silly when the official release date is approaching and we've had virtually no news in six months.

Even though I bumped the game in this case, for the sake of discussion I'll say this isn't necessarily true. Normally a lack of updates results in a natural decline in community buzz. But some games are simply big enough to withstand the dry periods. If a game is still the most anticipated game on the horizon with no updates at all, it really doesn't deserve to be displaced.

And if you go down the entire list of HoM games, really none have provided more extensive preview material than Gray Matter, nor anything more recent outside of Germany, so it's not like anything was really beating down the door.

Frankly, I think this speaks to the common error of announcing games WAY too early. But they all do it, so it's almost inevitable to get long gaps at some point along the way.

g_sakil 02-26-2008 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal (Post 460831)
No, they don't. And only Overclocked has provided preview material more recently than Gray Matter, and that only very recently as it gears up for its release.

If you want to be taken seriously, you should write "No, I think they don't". The phrase "No, they don't" reflects something less democratic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal (Post 460831)
Normally a lack of updates results in a natural decline in community buzz.

The same happens with products. Each product has a life-cycle and sooner or later it starts to decline. This is when advertising takes place, in order to enhance the community buzz and withstand the dry periods. But sometimes it serves as a propaganda stating that the product is No.1. And unfortunately HoM serves as a mean for advertisement. It tries to keep Gray Matter alive, not taking into consideration that it might act as a propaganda for the game

Dale Baldwin 02-26-2008 01:35 AM

Well your point is moot, Gray Matter is at number 4 :P

g_sakil 02-26-2008 02:12 AM

It was about time. I hope I helped you to see that something was wrong with the HoM and Gray Matter being on top.

Simo Sakari Aaltonen 02-26-2008 02:19 AM

Let's have some perspective here. If someone gets aggravated because a computer game is released later than planned, they should probably get something less ephemeral to have that reaction to...

Jane has earned a dozen times over the right to all the time it takes to finish a game properly. I would also point out that most of the PR material has referred to tentative or projected release dates. Those words are there for a reason.

Simo Sakari Aaltonen
(simo:)adventurecompanion.com)

www.adventurecompanion.com

AndreaDraco83 02-26-2008 03:52 AM

I couldn't agree less with the choice.

In literature, in cinema, in theatre, the Author is perhaps the most important aspect of any new production.

It's been two and a half year since the last book of G.R.R. Martin's saga, A song of ice and fire, was published. Nevertheless, although we haven't seen nothing more than two preview chapter of the next book, fans worldwide are still expecting the book with great anticipation.

After Mulholland Drive, Lynch took five years to produce and complete his masterpiece, Inland Empire, but - since the very moment in which it was announced - I didn't care of how much information I'd have about the plot, the characters or the use of digital cameras. It was Lynch's next film, and I was expecting with great anticipation.

When it was announced that Project-J was revived, I didn't care of previews, screenshots, trailer or any other stuff. After the stunning writing for Police Quest III, after the beautiful King's Quest VI (where Jene Jensen's pen is far more present than Williams') and foremost after Gabriel Knight, Gray Matter will be Jane's next project, and I'm expecting this with great anticipation.

Pulling it down or up, simply state that this politique des auteurs work not only with Jane, but also with other designers. I only find a bit ridiculous that now the first position is held by a series which chapters we can play at a monthly distance. And a bit pretentious, 'cause I think that - in difference with S&M season 2 - almost everyone will play, when it's out, Gray Matter.

Ksandra 02-26-2008 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stepurhan (Post 460826)
The point I was trying to make is that if previews and press demos are six months old (or recent ones are just recycling six month old info) then that would be taken into account. You seem to be saying that taking into account previews and press demos means sites saying "they haven't released anything new but the demo six months ago was great so we'll still hype it".

No, that's not what I meant at all - I'm not sure how you got that idea. What I was saying is basically exactly the same thing as you're saying, i.e. "the quality of the preview and press demo upped it's hype but there's been nothing new for awhile so taking into consideration the LACK OF fresh preview material it's going to drop". So there's no disagreement there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackal (Post 460831)
Even though I bumped the game in this case, for the sake of discussion I'll say this isn't necessarily true. Normally a lack of updates results in a natural decline in community buzz. But some games are simply big enough to withstand the dry periods. If a game is still the most anticipated game on the horizon with no updates at all, it really doesn't deserve to be displaced.

I disagree. It's as simple as that, really. But it's your site after all, and since GM has been moved down the list anyway (more than I expected, actually), there doesn't seem any point in arguing about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83 (Post 460860)
When it was announced that Project-J was revived, I didn't care of previews, screenshots, trailer or any other stuff. After the stunning writing for Police Quest III, after the beautiful King's Quest VI (where Jene Jensen's pen is far more present than Williams') and foremost after Gabriel Knight, Gray Matter will be Jane's next project, and I'm expecting this with great anticipation.

I'm sorry, but the "but it's JENSEN!" argument just isn't cutting it any more as far as I'm concerned. I know her previous games are very well regarded, but with all due respect, this is the first real adventure game she's produced in almost a decade. If I'd seen anything at all to justify the kind of hype this game is getting, I'd feel differently, but I haven't. And I'm also deeply unimpressed by the attitude Jensen and/or her publishers seem to be taking towards their fanbase - i.e. 'tell them almost nothing for months on end, and completely ignore any requests for further information'.

As I said in a similar thread over at JA, I'm far more cynical about this type of thing than I was a few years back, simply because I've seen so many fantastic-sounding games turn out to be a huge disappointment (or never even make it to retail). So while it's nice that you feel able to have such faith in JJ, I'm afraid I just can't bring myself to share your enthusiasm right now.

AndreaDraco83 02-26-2008 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460867)
And I'm also deeply unimpressed by the attitude Jensen and/or her publishers seem to be taking towards their fanbase - i.e. 'tell them almost nothing for months on end, and completely ignore any requests for further information'.

I can agree with you, but - to me - this fact doesn't detract anything from how much I'm expecting the game. As I said in my previous post, I'm full of example of artists (writers, directors, designers) which, despite the totally lack of information on their works, still I highly regard, 'cause I've never been let down by their efforts.

When Cormac McCarthy or Thomas Pynchon, or David Lynch, or George Martin (and I still can go on and on) hints that they're working to something new, the news spread worldwide, despite informations being diffused or not.

To adhere to our topic, I'm really looking forward to play Overclocked, Mata Hari, So Blonde and others, but no one of them can raise my expectations higher than Gray Matter. What does it mean? That, in my own case, if the Hype-o-Meter depends only on me, Gray Matter will still be First to the very moment of its release.

And I think that a Hype thermometer have to show the games that fans are expecting, despite demos, screenshots, trailers, news and information. I understand that these aren't the parameters for the Hype-o-Meter and I accept the fact. What I'm pointing out is that - if Gray Matter managed, although shadowy and uncertain, to raise our expectations so much - it deserves to be placed first.

Now, it's note the case anymore and I've to make my peace :D

Fien 02-26-2008 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra (Post 460867)
I'm sorry, but the "but it's JENSEN!" argument just isn't cutting it any more as far as I'm concerned. I know her previous games are very well regarded, but with all due respect, this is the first real adventure game she's produced in almost a decade. If I'd seen anything at all to justify the kind of hype this game is getting, I'd feel differently, but I haven't. And I'm also deeply unimpressed by the attitude Jensen and/or her publishers seem to be taking towards their fanbase - i.e. 'tell them almost nothing for months on end, and completely ignore any requests for further information'.

Let's forget about Jensen for a moment... just for a moment. :devil: I mean, she's the author, the story-teller, and as such important. But she's not making this game on her own. Actually, her part of the job should more or less be done by now. To the best of my knowledge a company called Tonuzaba is doing the practical developing stuff. There's no mention of Gray Matter at their site and it doesn't look like they're into adventure games at all. Does anybody know for a fact who the developers are?

Jackal 02-26-2008 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g_sakil (Post 460850)
If you want to be taken seriously, you should write "No, I think they don't". The phrase "No, they don't" reflects something less democratic

When the HoM becomes a democratic process, I'll be sure to say it that way. :rolleyes:

Quote:

It was about time. I hope I helped you to see that something was wrong with the HoM and Gray Matter being on top.
You didn't, and there wasn't anything wrong with it for the whole time it was at #1. Only now was it time for a change, and even that was entirely discretionary. I'd have lost no sleep whatsoever keeping it at #1 until release (barring some other new announcement that has more people excited, though I'm not sure such a game is even possible anymore.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksandra
I disagree. It's as simple as that, really. But it's your site after all, and since GM has been moved down the list anyway (more than I expected, actually), there doesn't seem any point in arguing about it.

We can discuss it without arguing, just to understand each other's points. ;) So tell me, how do you respond to the many people, like AndreaDraco83 in this thread, who would still list Gray Matter as the game they're most looking forward to? Are you saying those people are simply too few and far between to matter, or that that degree of anticipation is somehow invalidated because there aren't enough updates? I get that YOU lose your enthusiasm when there aren't, but the list is meant to gauge wide(r)spread sentiment, not personal experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndreaDraco83
I only find a bit ridiculous that now the first position is held by a series which chapters we can play at a monthly distance. And a bit pretentious, 'cause I think that - in difference with S&M season 2 - almost everyone will play, when it's out, Gray Matter.

I think you underestimate the popularity of Sam & Max. Step outside the rather insulated little adventure community, and about the only game(s) you'll hear about regularly are Sam & Max, and usually in very complimentary ways. The episodic thing... well... that may always be a point of contention. I know many people who have come to really look forward to regular, smaller doses. It doesn't have to be monthly, though. The whole series will be released on disc at season's end. That's just as valid a product as any other game.


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