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Old 09-06-2007, 11:18 PM   #1
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Default Since year 2000: Two NEAR PERFECT most recent releases

If you had to think of the two most recently released "NEARLY EXCELLENT IN EVERY WAY" Adventure games SINCE 2000, which two would you come up with ? ............. If any?

They must be, in your opinion, the most NEAR perfect in every way. Be VERY choosy. If you can only think of one, that's fine.

If none, that's fine. For instance, some of us may believe that, compared to what we'd call the CLASSICS of the halcyon 1990's, no games since 2000 have come anywhere close to perfection. Have any, for instance, had all of the qualities of, say, Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers (Not necessarily my opinion - just an example?).

When considering, think of all game qualities EXCEPT GRAPHICS quality please ? I know that graphics quality is an imperative contributor to overall enjoyment of a game but, for the purpose of this survey, please exclude it when considering excellence of the game. So, don't mark a game up or down on its graphics quality. Instead use criteria such as story, puzzles (quality, originality, appropriate level of difficulty), music, atmosphere, overall gameplay, too much tracking back (?), linearity (too linear?), character interaction, length of game, value for money, voice acting, sound effects, overall memorability and fun, etc.. Consider all of these together, but NOT GRAPHICS. Don't include freeware games please.

Last edited by Jacques l'aliéné; 09-08-2007 at 04:13 AM. Reason: I agree. Post edited for common sense reasons and a couple of other tweaks :-)
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:04 AM   #2
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"Excellent in every way (except possibly graphics)" is a rather harsh criterion. I'm not sure I'd apply that to more of the true classics than you can count on one hand. No game is entirely without flaws.
On topic, I'd say Adventures of Sherlock Holmes: The Silver Earring comes close, being held back only by a single sneaking sequence and a single timed sequence. I also think Sam & Max: Season 1 is the best thing to happen to adventure gaming in a long time, but it's not without its flaws. And Syberia might just make the grade.
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Old 09-07-2007, 02:19 PM   #3
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Well, The Longest Journey was very late in 1999, so it almost counts. For me, that game is/was the pinnacle of adventure games. I would probably put Syberia as number 2.

I also think graphics are an important factor. Or at least, getting games to run. I have skipped over lots of "classic" adventure games (I only recently got into the genre) such as the GK series and the original Sam and Max, since they are just too dated for me.

Maybe I should play them, I dunno.

Part of me is hoping for a DS re-release.
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Old 09-07-2007, 08:42 PM   #4
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Longest Journey and Syberia are excellent choices.

Sam and Max is also on the short-list
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Old 09-07-2007, 09:54 PM   #5
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In my humble opinion, two nearly perfect games in 21:st century have been so far: "Black Mirror" and "Nibiru - The Age Of Secrets". The thing worth mentioning is that they're both developed by "Unknown identity". They really charmingly brought in my mind the "Broken Sword 1 and 2". Those two dragged me into adventure games and I really love their atmosphere and interface! (The third game is coming up from "Unknown identity" holds the name "9 Till Death" and because both earlier games banged me totally, I'm definitely waiting for that game! Also "Reprobates" is worth a look, because it's developed by "Future games", that was a publisher of both "Black Mirror" and "Nibiru")

I think that graphics are if not the most important feature in adventre game, then definitely one of the most important. And I don't mean, that it's the question of resolution or colour depth or anything like that techical part. I mean that graphics are important in a certain different way: They are the game world. They have to be inspirely drawn/made and they have to be good, so that the game has any chance to be good. In other words: There's two graphical meters: Technical quality and atmospheric quality. Please let's not mix these things up.

The reason for those two games to be the best in 21:st century so far is that their graphical outlet is simply very atmospheric and beautiful, puzzles are nice, story is charming and main characters are interesting. Also the gameworld is rich in details, (which is not the thing to say for example about "Syberia" or "Still Life", they're simply boring, cause you can look nearly nothing, it's all background.) Very good voice-acting and well-written dialogue.

Last edited by MoonBird; 09-07-2007 at 10:36 PM. Reason: language fix
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Old 09-07-2007, 10:11 PM   #6
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Myst IV is a candidate, but many people here argue that the Myst games are not true adventures, and I think they have a point there. So I will go for Dreamfall, and Hope Springs Eternal (from MDNA games).
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:05 AM   #7
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I agree with you Harald. I've edited the original post to say "NEARLY". The point I was trying to emphasise was that I wanted people to be hyper, hyper choosy in picking out any game, or games. Are there actually any that have been released in the 21 Century that have been better than any of the very best of the preceeding years ?

For the purpose of this question I definitely want to exclude graphics as an element for comparison because that's a technological advantage that I don't want to be included in the comparison. Yes, I know that good graphics contribute enormously to atmosphere as well. But, for the purpose of this excercise, don't include it. Just consider the other elements. And, DEFINITELY, say so if you think that NO GAMES, since 2000, can be regarded as absolute Classics compared to the best of ones that came before.

Even in the 1990's, I'm sure that people could think of games with 'inferior' graphics that were sooo good in other respects that they are regarded as absolute classics. If you regard graphics quality as an uneliminateable element - which I'd completely understand from your perspective - then don't pick any games out in answer to the question. I'm really just after your choices excluding graphics. For instance, some independently made Adventures may have far inferior graphics, but do the other ingredients make for a CLASSIC ? How would you be able to consider commercially available text Adventures, for instance, if you couldn't compare their 'graphics' with graphics equivalents ? '1893: A World's Fair Mystery', 'Future Boy', for example ?

Similarly, for example, think of a game that you thought had a fantastic story, with excellent puzzles, excellent graphics, good game length, excellent music, excellent sound effects, acting, etc.. Now, take away the 'excellent' graphics. A major element, I agree. But it wouldn't have made the game a bummer, would it? Not, surely, compared to some (many I'd say), 21st Century games with fantastically mesmerising graphics but, taking those away, nowhere near as good in all of the other essential elements when compared to Adventures regarded as fantastic from earlier years that didn't have the advantage of today's technology when it comes to 'game look'.

I know graphics quality is a very important consideration. But, just for the purpose of this question, only look at the other elements. Imagine, if it helps, you're comparing Text Adventures/IF with music and sounds if you find that helps. It doesn't for me, but who knows?

Apologies for such an awkward question. I have reasons for asking. No, I'm not making a 'poor graphics' game.

Remember, "And, DEFINITELY, say so if you think that" ... (excluding graphics as a factor), ... "NO GAMES, since 2000, can be regarded as absolute Classics compared to the best of ones that came before.". That statistic is just as valuable to me.

Thanks.

Last edited by Jacques l'aliéné; 09-08-2007 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Misspelled Harald.
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:49 AM   #8
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Good information. Thanks. I haven't played some of these yet, but, if possible, I'd like to know a bit more about the reasons behind a few that have been mentioned so far. So, forgive me if my questions aren't always on the mark. I'll try to be objective too and try not to show my opinion of a particular game (most of the time).

Certainly include Myst games. I don't want them excluded. Are some of its puzzles what, perhaps, the majority of experienced Adventure gamers would see as a little too difficult? For the majority of clued in Adventurers, would you say that resorting to hints, or walkthrough, would be very likely? I thought Riven was bordering on too tough in parts for the 'average' experienced Adventurer. But that's Riven and just my opinion of course. Dreamfall - Do you think it loses points on puzzles being on the easy side, possibly not enough of them and on having unresolved - loose ends - plot elements, or is that reasonable taking into consideration any future sequel? HSE is a very interesting choice, as it was/is reasonably priced and independent. So, not big-budget. Thanks for that one. What about MDNA's other releases?

Black Mirror and N.I.B.I.R.U. - Thanks for those. Interesting, your comparison with atmosphere of BS games. On BM, did you think it's strongest point was story ? Weakest point it's finale ? I'd be interested to know ? N.I.B.I.R.U. - Would you say that the 'appropriateness' of the accents and voice acting were as good as they could be? If not, did they make any difference to your enjoyment of the overall Adventure?

Sam & Max. Would you say that it's only significant detracting feature is shortish game length (something I've heard mention), or, considering its price, is it value for money ? Am I right in saying that it's not particularly long ? Are it's puzzles (difficulty level and originality), and story merit-worthy of consideration amongst the very best ?

TLJ just misses out by its 1999 release I'm afraid.

Syberia - The choice of many I would guess. I know some didn't like it though. Would it lose points anywhere ? Puzzle difficulty ? Linearity? More linear than most ? Lack of interactivity ? Too few characters ? Atmosphere excellent/vibrant/too static?

TekPunk182 .... "Too dated" ? Try them. Believe me. You're missing out big time.

Thanks everyone. This is very useful information.
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Old 09-08-2007, 04:55 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques l'aliéné View Post
Sam & Max. Would you say that it's only significant detracting feature is shortish game length (something I've heard mention), or, considering its price, is it value for money ? Am I right in saying that it's not particularly long ? Are it's puzzles (difficulty level and originality), and story merit-worthy of consideration amongst the very best ?
No, it's definitely good value for money, and the combined size of Season One certainly amounts to a full-length game. To me the episodes not being long enough is not so much due to any measurable factor but more a matter of how they felt; often it would seem an episode was over before it got started properly.
The puzzles are a bit on the easy side, especially in the earlier episodes, but they are very original and a number of them truly memorable.
Paradoxically the writing is both the best part and the only significant detractor. It has deliciously crazy plot elements and a great sense of humour to put it on par with the best classics. But the reuse of the underlying plot structure made the episodes too predictable, and I blame the structure itself for making them seem too short, especially episodes 2 and 3.
The music, by the way, is the best I've experienced in any game genre since Master of Orion 2.

edit: If you want to talk individual episodes, I'd say Abe Lincoln Must Die! is the culmination and is near-perfect if you forgive it for not being a full-length game.
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:18 AM   #10
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Brilliant feedback. Just what I'm after. Positive and some (where there's any), negative criticism. I've now got a good idea of where you see the game in relation to THE perfect Adventure. Thanks Harald.
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Old 09-08-2007, 05:33 AM   #11
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Syberia and Black Mirror:

Syberia because of the beautiful enviroments (yeah, I know it counts as graphics) and the perfect flow of the game, plus the superb atmosphere.

Black Mirror because it has one of the best and most exciting stories ever written in any game, and the atmpshphere is excellent. It has the same atmosphere as Broken Sword - The Shadow of the Templars, my favorite game of all time. I thought it was impossible for another game to even touch the atmosphere of Broken Sword 1, but Black Mirror did, and how it did

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Old 09-08-2007, 05:55 AM   #12
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Thanks Isak. Can you, in your opinion, give me any negatives of each of those games? What did you think, for example, about the ending of the story of Black Mirror? Any unexplained bits perhaps? Rushed maybe? These things have been mentioned by a few people. Any negative criticisms of Syberia?

Apologies if I'm sounding pedantic.
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:10 AM   #13
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No worries

The problem with Black Mirror was the ending. I felt that the ending was rushed. It could have been a lot better if they would have developed it further and let the last fmv be longer and so on. But the ending itself (the story) wasen't bad, but it was rushed.

I don't have any negative word about Syberia. The only thing I can think of is that the game was split on two chapters (Syberia 1 and 2), so you had to pay for two games to finish one game. But it was worth all the money
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Old 09-08-2007, 06:35 AM   #14
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Okay. Thanks Isak. Valid criticisms.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:08 AM   #15
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Well, if we're going by perfect game elements, then for me at least, Dreamfall has more than its share of flaws: the interface was clunky, the puzzle elements too easy or too contrived, and the fighting elements were...weak.

If we're going by the game as a whole ,however, then Dreamfall--as a story-based game--stands head and shoulders above any of its contemporaries. The voice acting was fantastic, and the characters were very believable. Also, the art direction (discounting the graphics) was beautiful. The music fit very nicely as well, and added to the atmosphere. It was what got me back into adventure games after a hiatus after Grim Fandango.

As for Syberia, the criticisims that have already been pointed out are valid. However, the ambiance and the setting to me were key in that game. Some of the puzzles were challenging, others were easy, and some of the environments felt a little lifeless, but I will admit that I am a sucker for the ideas of clockwork devices, be they men or trains. Also, I loved the feeling of following after someone (Hans) and learning about them through the other people you meet and interact with.

It seems to me that a common theme here is that there haven't been any "perfect" games recently (or maybe not ever), but that the games we remember stand out because as a game, they are more than the sum of their parts. A few weak areas here and there are outweighed by all the things they did right.

Also, it sounds like I should play Black Mirror, I loved the first two Broken Sword games.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:34 AM   #16
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Wasn't TLJ a 1999 release? If we count it them TLJ and Syberia.

If not then Syberia and Myst IV( personaly I liked both URU and M 5 more, but IV is propably a safer choice for non-Myst fans)
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:17 AM   #17
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The Longest Journey and Sam and Max Season 1.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:33 AM   #18
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"Sam and Max Season 1" and "Broken Sword The Angel Of Death" are the best ones I can think of. If they are "nearly" perfect or not I really can't tell. I would like to add "Silent Hill 2" and "Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners Of the Earth" but those aren't 100 % adventures.
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Old 09-08-2007, 09:34 AM   #19
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The Longest Journey was released December 1999 in Sweden and France. And probably also Norway. In other parts of the world it was released in 2000, between March - December, depending on which country.

Info:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/window...y/release-info
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:05 AM   #20
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Hmm... Shadow of Destiny and I'm gonna say Runaway to spite all the Runaway haters. Nyah!
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