[KamisoriX]

lalala

[Thaurin]

The reviews are not very positive, but I've learned not to trust mainstream game zines if they're not specialized in adventure games. Too often it turns out that not being able to innovate in the adventure game genre gives you a bad score, while I would argue that a game in the same trusty format with good story and characterization is what makes a good adventure game.

So I'll try out the demo, I guess... even though I have tons of other games to play.

[Crapstorm]

I'm with you, Thaurin. Only change "story and characterization" to "puzzles and free exploration."

[Thaurin]

That's not to say I don't like good graphics and innovations, if they're well executed, of course!! But it's not that important in terms of the total fun factor of an adventure game. I've actually seen a game review a while back from GameSpot I think it was that chastised a game for being a certain genre, namely point-and-click. Basically, the reviewer made it clear that you can't have point-and-click adventure games nowadays, it's a thing of the past, it's ridiculous to have them in this day and age. Not in so many words, but that was the basic gist of it. As if the only right of existence of this type of game was the relatively slow computers that existed in that time as compared to what is possible today (3D cinematics, etc.). Some people are just not meant to review a game (like that Myst IV review for Xbox or something-- reviewer wondered why they still make these kinds of games at all! Well, obviously some people like them!)

But let's not rant about that, because this thread is about Dead Reefs.

[Thaurin]

Okay, so I checked out the demo for a bit. I'm not saying I spent big amounts of time with it, but I can comment superficially.

One of the complaints the GameSpot (?) review had was the controls. Now, I'm very lenient with controls most of the time, especially with adventure games. So yeah, it's unconventional, but you can get used to it (especially if you configure a gamepad for it *winkwink* ). It's keyboard only, so it'll feel console-like (cue: people blaming developer for making the game for consoles-- no idea if this is truth ).

Graphics were nice, but camera wasn't always perfect. The X button toggles search mode, which put you in first-person view. That helps most of the times. The atmosphere looked gritty, dark. This may be a title for those who like a kind of piratey noir story.

Can't comment on the story a lot. The demo seems to drop you in the middle of it. I hate that. You start out with inventory items you have no idea about and there is little to no backstory. Your journal containts entries of events that have supposedly happened to you. In short, no immersion because of these things. Alas, it's only a demo.

Haven't seen many puzzles, because I didn't play for very long. I can see why some reviewers may feel that puzzles and hints may seem hard to come by. The exploration aspects looks like Grim Fandango, where the character tilts his head when he sees a hotshot. This may be slightly annoying to some and might be cause to some 3D pixel-hunting. There were some scenes where I had to run a bit with no apparent destiny and an unclear path; frustrating.

Looks like it could be an okay adventure game, though, overall.

[Henke]

This is devastating! The game has great graphics and sound, the story and setting seems extremely interesting.

But it has the WORST controls I have ever encountered!

I didn't even get to the first puzzle before I quit the game in frustration.

[fruithead]

the demo shows off a beautiful game but i couldn't get through it. the controls are annoying but the movement of the camera when he runs makes me dizzy. the camera shouldn't move as he runs, only he should move. anyone know what i mean? it gave me a headache. disappointing.

[Nautilus]

1) The controls are really bad
2) The BGM (background music) is boring
3) The EXAMINE action is pathetic
4) The forest leaves (2D bitmaps) are ugly
5) The main character is good, with nice dubbing and smooth moves

GeForce4MX users: start the game with launcher.exe and choose a lower resolution and specs, so the game will run.

[crabapple]

You're supposed to be able to map the keys in the game itself.
Is this allowed in the demo?
Or does the problem with the keyboard run deeper than something that mapping the keys can straighten out?

[tsa]

Originally Posted by Henke

This is devastating! The game has great graphics and sound, the story and setting seems extremely interesting.

But it has the WORST controls I have ever encountered!

I didn't even get to the first puzzle before I quit the game in frustration.

Same here. The controls were horrible. I can't understand why people choose to NOT use the arrow keys for movement, but for something entirely different. Maybe the game was developed for consoles instead of the PC?

I also had problems with the game crashing when I started it. It took me a while to figure out that it wouldn't run at all on my trusty Duron 1300 with a GeForce 5600XT and 512 MB, and it could only run on my MacBook Pro in WinXP if I used a resolution that fit the resolution of the screen (which is logical of course ).

The graphics were OK but the sounds... They didn't fit the surroundings very well. Have you ever heard boiling water sound like that? Not good! And you didn't even hear the fire underneath the cauldron. NOT good!

[tsa]

Originally Posted by fruithead

the demo shows off a beautiful game but i couldn't get through it. the controls are annoying but the movement of the camera when he runs makes me dizzy. the camera shouldn't move as he runs, only he should move. anyone know what i mean? it gave me a headache. disappointing.

I understand what you mean. I had the same problem when I started playing Uru. After a while you get used to it and you don't get headaches anymore.

[Thaurin]

Originally Posted by tsa

Maybe the game was developed for consoles instead of the PC?

Bingo!! I knew someone was going to bring that up!!

But seriously, controls aren't everything. So they're different, but I bet most people won't even bother to learn how to use them. And in an adventure game, I would rate controls the least important factor, anyway.

[stepurhan]

Originally Posted by Thaurin

And in an adventure game, I would rate controls the least important factor, anyway.

Maybe not but if the controls are badly thought out (and that is possible) then you never get to anything else anyway. In that sense controls could be said to be THE most important factor up to the point you get something that people are either comfortable with or can easily remap to something they are comfortable with. (at which point they drop behind everything else in importance)

Good controls are what is known as a hygiene factor (usually applied as a term in employment) which are defined as

factors that can cause dissatisfaction if missing but do not necessarily motivate if increased

It's all very well saying that people can learn a new control system but we all have finite time. If I have two games, one of which I can control straight away and one of which I'd have to take time learning then the latter had better offer something special as payoff for the extra effort. Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy is the only game that has managed that for me in recent years.

[tsa]

Originally Posted by Thaurin

Bingo!! I knew someone was going to bring that up!!

But seriously, controls aren't everything. So they're different, but I bet most people won't even bother to learn how to use them. And in an adventure game, I would rate controls the least important factor, anyway.

How many people in this tiny thread gave up early because of the controls of this game? Controls are VERY important for the enjoyment of a game, and, as Step pointed out, people don't want to have to spend time to learn a new control scheme.

[Ksandra]

Stepurhan and tsa are absolutely right - gamers should not have to waste time fighting the interface when they want to get on with playing the game. Any control system which takes more than 5-10 minutes to get used to is by definition a poor one - especially for an adventure game, which really doesn't need complex controls (I might stretch it to 15 minutes for an action game). I've no idea whether this game was configured for consoles or not, but I do know that I'm not prepared to support developers who can't be bothered to implement a proper keyboard/mouse interface.

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that we're having this discussion in 2007. A simple WASD/mouselook interface has been standard in 3D action games for almost two decades, so why do adventure developers seem to have so much trouble with the concept? Even console games which are ported to PC generally get this right. No wonder real-time 3D adventures have so much trouble catching on when developers keep trying to reinvent the wheel.

As for gamepads, personally I've never owned a console, so learning to use a gamepad would take at least as long as learning to use a crappy keyboard interface. Not to mention that I'm not prepared to waste money on new hardware when I already have a perfectly good keyboard and mouse, which have worked fine for about 97% of the games I've ever played. I swore off keyboard-only interfaces for good after BS3, and if that means I miss out on a few games, so be it. Any developer worth their salt will take the time to implement some kind of mouse control - and if they don't even have time to do that, how good is the game likely to be anyway?

[tsa]

This game has no mouse control at all. That means you have to learn about ten buttons just to be able to play the game. That was OK in the 1980s before everybody had a mouse, but not anymore.

[tknaps]

Originally Posted by tsa

How many people in this tiny thread gave up early because of the controls of this game? Controls are VERY important for the enjoyment of a game, and, as Step pointed out, people don't want to have to spend time to learn a new control scheme.

I fully agree. I spent about 5 minutes on this game before I gave up on it - ALL because of the controls.

[tsa]

I wonder if demo's are being released as a sort of trial for how the game will be received by the audience. Are there examples of games that have been modified after complaints about the demo?

[Thaurin]

You know, these types of replies is exactly the stubbornness that I'm talking about when bringing up this topic. Maybe I'm just totally different from everybody else, but if the content is good enough I will just about suffer any control scheme. It's not like the 10-15 minute "time-investment" is really work; after all, you're still playing a game and probably having fun. Learning the controls comes naturally.

I also don't understand replies like "developer x couldn't be bothered to do y." It ranks up there with "developer x only cares about our money" and other assumptions that are dubious. It probably wasn't meant as literally, but the tone and anger that is expressed in many of these cases is completely out of place, in my opinion.

Are PC gamers really so narrow-minded to refuse trying anything new?

[VictimOfScience]

Yeah, this was a big disappointment for me too. The controls were certainly the first thing to throw me off. Maybe I am just used to 2D adventures, but the camera was awful, esp. the way it shakes when you run. I understand what the yare trying to do--the effect looks good in games like Gears of War and POTC, but here it just plain stinks. The environments are boring and pretty empty. The music and sound effects started off good then crashed down to really poor after about 5 minutes of gameplay. I liked the voice acting, but that is about it. Pity. Good thing they released a demo so I can save my money for a better game.