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Old 07-22-2007, 01:13 PM   #41
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That was instructive. Not only will I skip the demo, but I'll skip the game too.
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Old 07-23-2007, 04:32 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by tsa View Post
I don't understand why anyone would buy a gamepad to play games with a PC while you have a prefectly good keyboard and mouse that can do the trick.
*sigh* Not this again. A gamepad is a totally different thing. It's not necessarily a replacement for the keyboard/mouse combo. If you don't understand why I would buy a gamepad then you don't understand how I actually enjoy laid-back games like adventures more with a gamepad, precisely since they are more relaxed to play with one. I don't feel like twitch games are more suited to gamepads, but sitting back on your favourite couch with a gamepad beats sitting hunched over your keyboard in my book.

But no one should force you to use a gamepad if you prefer the keyboard/mouse, of course. It's just the stubbornness of refusing anything as long as it's not keyboard/mouse that stuns me.

P.S. What did you think of the controls in Under A Killing Moon when you first tried them? Just curious.
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Old 07-23-2007, 07:11 AM   #43
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Point taken, I'll stop about the gamepad :-)

UAKM was indeed also something to get used to but you didn't have to learn 10 illogically placed buttons to be able to play that game
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:02 AM   #44
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Ugh, but switching between movement mode and interactive mode grew tiresome. And I never really got used to moving around with the mouse like that in the first place. Still, I forgave the game this, because I could still squeeze the content out of it which was pretty good.
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:33 PM   #45
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But would it really make a difference whether your right and left hand are pushing buttons on a keyboard on or on a gamepad? I dunno, maybe you could move better with an analog stick. As it was, having four keys to move didn't work well.
I don't know whether this particular game would be easier with a gamepad than not. But I've found with certain other keyboard games (like BS3) that the gamepad was easier because I didn't have to unlearn the keyboard controls I was used to (and then have to go and relearn them when I went back to playing my other games).

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I've played other games with the same movement controls, just the four keys, no mouse involved, but the navigation paths in this game (not that I got far, I'm mainly speaking of the boat in the demo) and the game response to my attempts to turn and run were infuriatingly slow and confusing.
That aspect doesn't sound like it would be improved with a gamepad. It may be that response to user input is quicker on faster computers with faster video cards. Minimum specs for video card were listed as NVidia Geforce 5200fx or ATI Radeon 9200 but Recommended specs were listed as NVidia Geforce 6600fx or ATI Radeon 9800. That's quite a difference in speed and I suspect the minimum was understated. Of course I don't know what kind of card you have in your computer.

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I can't remember if Grim Fandango had a similar 4-button movement thing,
No it didn't. It used the arrow keys for movement like a normal game. There were a lot of keys to learn, but it wasn't like I had to unlearn all the keyboard controls I'd learned playing other games.

Quote:
And in agreement with other posters, the slight up-and-down motion when you run is a little nausea-inducing and makes it harder to navigate.
They have bobbing and they don't let you turn it off? That makes me wonder about the last time the developers played an action game.

Quote:
A shame, because in terms of story and atmosphere, this is totally my kind of game. I was willing to forgive a lot if the story and puzzles were good. From the reviews I've read, they are, it's just that the controls hinder actually being able to play the game without tearing your hair out. :-(
Good thing you tried the demo.
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Old 07-30-2007, 09:41 AM   #46
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I downloaded the demo but found that, somewhat unsurprisingly , my old computer isn't up to the task of running it. I am curious about those supposedly awful controls, though. The PDF manual make it sound as if they are basically like those in Broken Sword 3: four keys responsible for moving, another four for context-sensitive actions. Is it correct or is there something more to them (besides the fact that they are unresponsive)?
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Old 07-30-2007, 11:57 AM   #47
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Sad to say, market research seems sadly neglected these days and quite a few game developers and designers seem either totally ignorant of what works in terms of controls or like they want to make a statement by coming up with schemes that are designed for 12 fingered left handed members of a species yet undiscovered.

I have to test and try each new control scheme and hardware peripheral, but I still use a keyboard and a mouse for my own testing and research. I am glad people enjoy consols and gamepads, and really really glad there are good games for them, and everyone is happy which what they enjoy.

As for bad controls, there is no point to go any farther I am afraid. I tested BloodRayne II last night and they had an inverted control scheme that moved that game into the waaaay in the future to do list for me, I just do not have the time or the energy with so many good and great games to play through, to fight poor design at such a basic level. I am afraid Dead Reefs is moving right up into the future with BloodRayne II thanks for all the great imput here. I will always make an exception to this strategy of priortizing if there is hope of a hidden masterpiece and I have returned to try again at some games with difficult control schemes, but generally find my first deicison to delay or not play was a good one. The interface (controls, game layout, etc.) is our way of "feeling" the game and I want that flow through to be as seamless as possible so "I" can get into it. Sorry AG, better luck next time, and pls spend more time on the control design, stick with the classics, WASD With Mouse look, etc. , it is a classic for a reason.
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:39 PM   #48
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What would be terrific for a 3D adventure game, would be a combination of the classic ASWD + mouse scheme and the Monkey Island 3-style hold mouse button for pop-up menu with actions. I think Tex Murphy might've been great with that.
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Old 07-31-2007, 11:43 AM   #49
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Thaurin, that is a great idea! very cool concept. I imagine as things progress the strange control schemes will fade away, as developers return to balance with it all, and I do hope so because some of the difficult to play games have had nice stories and beautiful content.
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