[Greywing]

Hey guys! This is my first post here. I've slowly been getting into adventure games over the last year or so, my absolute favorites so far being The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.

Now, I've just finished the two Syberia games and I'm feeling a bit... emotionally non-plussed, and with a ton of unresolved questions.

Sure, Hans Voralberg went off with the mammoths but that left Kate Walker all alone at almost literally the top of the world with no way home. There was reference earlier in the game that the ark returns to the Youkol village automatically but that means Kate would have to get to it and survive the journey back to then be stuck in the wilderness with only a broken train and a nomadic tribe for company.

Storywise, I never really felt the growth of Kate's character like I did with April or Zoe in TLJ/Dreamfall. In the first game, she's driven by her job and in the second, to help Hans. Sure, Hans seemed a sweet old man but nothing to really engender Kate to leave her life behind to hunt down a mythical land with him. And why the subplot of the detective following Kate if there was no pay-off? No confrontation, no resolution - just a voice on a phone that eventually gives up the chase. Finally, how come the tracks for Hans' clockwork railroad went right to the Youkol village, when he'd never gotten there before?

I suppose Syberia was a spiritual journey for Hans and Kate alike but the game seems to abandon the lead character with no explanation or resolution. There's a lot about the game that I feel the player is just supposed to unquestioningly accept but that comes across as shoddy storytelling to me. The final scene of Hans riding off with the mammoths was supposed to be emotional but instead I felt kind of numbed to it. <Or are there alternate endings depending on the position of the pipes and the 'radar' dish?>

Don't get me wrong, I thought they were both beautiful games visually and they had some real heart-tugging moments, such as when Oscar sacrifices himself so Hans can continue the journey but overall, the story didn't affect me much. I was going to hunt down Amerzone but if this is the kind of storytelling I can expect from Sokal's other games, I think I'll pass.

Any thoughts?

[Harald B]

I liked the first Syberia a lot, but I wasn't particularly pleased with the finale either. One thing that especially disgusted me was the way Hans basically encouraged Kate to kill the two thugs because they're unworthy of witnessing syberia. That and the way he just ditched Kate in the end made him ultimately just a petty, selfish little man. The end certainly doesn't seem worth all the effort and sacrifices that have been made.
Adding to that the way Syberia II often felt like "more of the same", I like to pretend it never existed and go with the much better ending to the first part.

[Kurufinwe]

One thing you have to bear in mind about Syberia 2 is that, at the time of its development, Microïds was going through huge financial problems. The makers of Syberia (who then went on to found White Birds) describe their last year at Microïds as nightmarish, having to constantly plead for a little more money to do this or that.

Obviously, there are many things about the Syberia games which are due to design choices, not financial necessities, and some of those choices can certainly be criticised. But bear in mind that there also were financial difficulties on Syberia 2, which may account for some of the (perceived) problems.

[jacog]

Can I use this opportunity to complain about Paradise again? Pleeeeeeease?

[Greywing]

Originally Posted by jacog

Can I use this opportunity to complain about Paradise again? Pleeeeeeease?

Go ahead - I posted the same thread on The Longest Journey forums, where someone alluded to Paradise having a flawed ending but didn't elaborate on their point. I'd be interested to hear what Sokal's other games are like.

[jacog]

Have only played Syberia I and II, and I do agree that the story goes south in the second part. Nothing can quite compare to the truly awful Paradise though. The protagonist is as emotionless as a post.

Here's an example... and it's not really a spoiler... The main character walks into a room where a guy's corpse is that was recently murdered... her reaction is basically to say something like "gasp" and then she just kind-of stands around looknig bored, kicking dust like a bored 10 year old kid etc. and has nothing further to say on the topic. There's a DEAD GUY IN THE ROOM for Pete's sake. (wtf is Pete anyway?)

And they didnt bother to craft dialogue options so that irrelivant ones become unavailable... characters will talk to you about things you supposedly know already, but don't... things you already know about, your character will ask about as if it was the first time... and in the English version at least... she starts almost every conversation with a high pitched "in fact!" - which makes no sense.

But mainly it all boils down to the main character... you just don't ever give a crap what happens to her.

The puzzles are daft as well for the most part.

Now... if, instead of a mouse pointer they gave us a sniper rifle... Then we'd have a game.

[AprilLives]

No doubt it’s fun ruffling a few feathers.

Most folks found both Syberia games fulfilled the promise of adventure in a beautiful way that was rewarding to play. One might call them waking dreams and inner journeys of personal growth and achievement.

The second game completed the first in that Kate found satisfaction in helping an old man fulfill his destiny. Sometimes the act of helping another is a valid purpose in itself. On the other hand, one might ask what is the purpose of Df, other than to be the longest trailer in gaming history for a future online game. It did nothing for TLJ.

I agree, however, there definitely should be a third in the Syberia series with Kate discovering more about herself in a brand new adventure by the multi-talented Sokal! His artistry is crystal clear. Even in a game like Paradise, where the team working on the North American/English version failed in important ways, Paradise had awesome moments and inklings into future interactive games with the leopard scenes.

[KamisoriX]

I like sokals artwork but that's it. besides Syberia (1) the rest was kinda pointless puzzlesolving on a beautiful background. I prefer a good story in an adventure game

[noknowncure]

Syberia could be viewed as an allegory for pursuing your inspiration. Hans has his dream, but cannot complete the journey to realise this fantasy until the catalyst character, Kate Walker, finds him. In that respect, Kate could be viewed as his inspiration or muse, the one who bridges the gap between his dreams and reality. I suppose it's also about obsession, and may contain a cautionary message: That if you relentlessly pursue something, once you reach your goal, you may find yourself stranded at the ends of the earth, alone.

Each location in the original Syberia is representative of a stage of life. You arrive in a town because of a death, but emerge with a new life - Oscar. You then progress through school/childhood, the industrial complex/Adulthood and finally the final location/old age.

Now that I've got all that out of the way, I can come clean. I didn't really enjoy Syberia at all. It was too barren for my liking, and - presumably, because it's not supposed to be taken entirely literally - it contains too many plot holes and unfinished ideas.

I think it's another game that gets away with a lot, simply by looking quite nice and having a vaguely spiritual message. The characters never feel that memorable - particularly the incidental cast - and the different locations are really just facades that hide the fact that it's an awfully empty world.

I'm not even that taken by the artwork. It's too clinical and sterile for my liking.

Having said that, I didn't like Dreamfall at all either, and feel that that too was a journey where nothing happens.

[Firebird]

I would say Syberia is a great game for beginner adventurers. Yes its easy, yes its pretty, the story is a bit rubbish (I mean who gives a damn about mammoths ) but at the same time for me it was a great starting point into the genre. Plus, I was doing my A Levels at the time so it was nice to dip into its easiness and calmness!

[noknowncure]

I'm always surprised people say it was easy. I found it difficult. I suppose it's because I'm not really into that kind of puzzle, really... oh, the shame.

[Firebird]

Haha noknown - dont worry. Im terrible at adventure games. The moment something illogical comes up a la TLJ and BS I am doomed x

[Halcyon]

I love those who say the puzzles are easy. I've heard people say that about the Myst series. Don't believe a word of it. It's always easy when you have the answers. The fun is being stumped and figuring your way through it.

Anyway, Syberia 2 didn't leave me feeling resolved either. Not about the story or the characters. I figured it would be the last Syberia so it really bummed me out. Darkfall let me down somewhat, as well, especially after reading that *perhaps* the next installment will pick up where Darkfall left off, but it will be sold online in chunks...and that means the story stops when the chunks don't sell.

I think TLJ really changed how I view adventure games now. Now, I need more realism and less cartoons. The cartoons I can't bear anymore. Of course, I am getting old....

[KriD]

Originally Posted by Greywing

Hey guys! This is my first post here. I've slowly been getting into adventure games over the last year or so, my absolute favorites so far being The Longest Journey and Dreamfall.

Now, I've just finished the two Syberia games and I'm feeling a bit... emotionally non-plussed, and with a ton of unresolved questions.

Sure, Hans Voralberg went off with the mammoths but that left Kate Walker all alone at almost literally the top of the world with no way home.[...]

Kinda like April in TLJ.

[Not A Speck Of Cereal]

Heh.

[Greywing]

Originally Posted by KriD

Kinda like April in TLJ.

Good point, although I left TLJ with a feeling of more to come - the story clearly wasn't over. Syberia's ending had a kind of finality to it. Even if that weren't the case, April had shifting powers - I doubt Kate could lawyer her way back to civilisation.

[Greywing]

Originally Posted by jacog

Have only played Syberia I and II, and I do agree that the story goes south in the second part. Nothing can quite compare to the truly awful Paradise though. The protagonist is as emotionless as a post.

Here's an example... and it's not really a spoiler... The main character walks into a room where a guy's corpse is that was recently murdered... her reaction is basically to say something like "gasp" and then she just kind-of stands around looknig bored, kicking dust like a bored 10 year old kid etc. and has nothing further to say on the topic. There's a DEAD GUY IN THE ROOM for Pete's sake. (wtf is Pete anyway?)

To be fair, I've just started Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon and Nico does much the same thing when she finds Vernon's body. She doesn't even call the police, just starts investigating herself.

From the rest of what you say though, Paradise sounds like it would greatly annoy me. Thanks for the warning.

[Collector]

I've tried to get into Paradise, but just can't get far enough into it to hold my attention. I always seem to be disappointed by Sokal's stories.

[noknowncure]

I think one of Sokal's problems is that he tends to seize onto a skeleton of an idea, but then refrains from fleshing it out.

The characters are therefore undercooked, quite shallow creations. The screens only include the very basic requirements to progress through the story. The story itself has a central idea that isn't fully explained or explored, leaving loose ends - such as, as Greywing points out, the tracks for Hans' clockwork railroad reaching the Youkol village, despite him never reaching there before.

I find this tendency to be thoroughly disappointing and uninspiring. When someone mentions a Sokal story, the first thing that springs to mind is emptiness.

[tsa]

Maybe that is the problem I had with his games. First I played Amerzone. That was a nice game with a beginning and a real end (as far as I can remember). Then came Syberia I, with indeed an interesting story, stunning graphics, and an immersing atmosphere, but the end was, well, strange and sudden to me, and the story left many loose ends that I thought would be tied up in the next game. I really enjoyed Syberia I despite its flaws. Then Syberia II, with not much of a story at all, and even more loose ends after the disappointing ending of the game. I really pitied Kate, standing there in the cold after all she did for Hans, being left alone with nobody to help her get back home. Kate was a character you could relate to. Did Hans ever thank her for what she did? Then came Paradise. I think there has been enough said about that game. I never finished it; it was just too bad in too many ways. Sokal's next game must be really good to make up for that one.