[Bastich]

Originally Posted by remixor

On those other forums, do you take perfectly reasonable statements like "Denouncing a game just because it has keyboard controls is unfair" and turn them into "Keyboards are wonderful brilliant god-like devices and anyone who doesn't like them is evil"? Because that's what you're doing now.

This is EXACTLY the point I was just making remixor. You are already guilty of it. Go back and read my original post. The only thing I said is that keyboards are ergonomically poor input devices and designing a game entirely around them is a poor design choice. What the hell does that have anything to do with whether anyone likes it or not? I didn't give any opinion either way other than as far as ergonomics., which is a scientific view of interface based on kinesiology, biomechanics, and proper engineering. YOU inferred all the rest as well as the others. Suddenly, I was somehow arguing for P&C over keyboard, when I never mentioned such a thing, I was making false accusations, I didn't like keyboard controls, that I was somehow saying the game itself was bad purely because of said interface, and more. I never implied any of those things. YOU and others made them up out of a desire to argue. Rather than make crap up, ask me what the hell I meant if you don't understand it. Everyone is guilty of it to some degree, but it is getting ridiculous lately. Everything exploded over interpretations of what I said, NOT the actual words I said.

[fireside]

Originally Posted by Bastich

I have been going to forums since they were invented, and in all those years I have NEVER been on a forum with people as argumentative as this one.

Arguments are actually good as long as there aren't any personal attacks. We grow by listening to people who disagree with us, and we think more about what our own position is and why we take it.

[eriq]

Originally Posted by Bastich

I have been going to forums since they were invented, and in all those years I have NEVER been on a forum with people as argumentative as this one.

.....There is no desire for discussion at all. There is nothing inherently inflammatory about my statements. Only in your insecure interpretation of them. Grow up!

and with some really rude people I might add!

I recently posted what I thought a certain adventure game might be about and was completely flamed by a certain someone. The adventure gamers boards are somewhere I go because I feel like I can be myself and talk and go on about whatever adventure game type stuff I want to and it's really too bad that some people on here have corn cobs stuck up their asses where they feel like they have to make other people feel bad for saying what's on their mind... even if it IS about something as silly as a game that MIGHT or might NOT be coming out.

I expect to be able to say whatever the hell I want to about whatever game I want to whenever I want because this is a board about adventure games and the people who love and support them. The community is small enough! If you don't have anything nice to say, then shut up!


edit... FARENHEIT looks amazing. Quantic Dream cancelled their previous effort which I was really looking forward to. This one looks promising. The whole idea of "chapters" and episodes is intriguing. And the graphics have that "Quantic" feel!

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by eriq

I recently posted what I thought a certain adventure game might be about and was completely flamed by a certain someone.

You have to remember and keep in mind that that certain someone has no sense of humor or irony whatsoever.

[bigjko]

Now that this thread's been pulled off the Fahrenheit thread, this is your chance to go aggressive guys. Vent out. Express your frustrations!

#25!!

[Jake]

Though I'm sure people who have been around here far longer than me will disagree, as of three or four months ago I found this place to be probably the best forum on the Net. It was full of people who didn't crap on you whenever you disagreed, but would instead write a lengthy response discussing it. That is not the case anymore. In fact, it's become 100% the opposite. As remixor pointed out to me via a PM I just noticed in the middle of typing this post, these forums in fact no longer serve as a home to discuss ideas and life and just sort of have fun with it all, but instead now just make me angry! Any discussion of any merit is guaranteed to get derailed by the second page due to someone seemingly going out of their way to take a remark personally, and then 5 pages of stubborn angry replies fly by. I know I wasn't here for the "real" "old AG forum," but I definitely miss the "recent" "old AG forum," and I don't really know what to do about it.

there you go, bigjko

[Swordmaster]

Originally Posted by Bastich

Nope, anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo is some sort of infidel defiler, some intolerable blasphemer who should instantly be attacked by exploiting any available ambiguities in their dialogue.

Funny, in the Adventure Conversations thread some infidel defilers didn't "agree with the status quo" of certain companies (*cough*TAC*cough*) releasing the same Myst clones over and over again which resulted into an instant attack exploiting the ambiguity of mentioning mature women in the posts - by some freak accident, the general dissatisfaction with the mass-produced 3D adventures turned into age racism. The tables have turned, eh?

Originally Posted by Bastich

Why do you people support holding back such progression in other genres? A keyboard-only game is just ignorant at this point. Everything else has moved away from that as much as possible because it sucks. It shows disctinct lack of vision to not move beyond the keyboard at this point.

Replace the word "keyboard" with the word "linearity" in the above quotation, please. Then think for a while what we discussed about in the Adventure Conversations thread.

*sigh*

[bigjko]

Originally Posted by Jake

there you go, bigjko

Thank you.

Now, off to enjoy some unboiled pasta. Delicious!

[eriq]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

You have to remember and keep in mind that that certain someone has no sense of humor or irony whatsoever.

well we can pull the corn cob out together.


edit:

On the subject of game interfaces, one of my favourites was from the old Full Throttle and Curse of Monkey Island games. I like the whole context sensitive pop-up interface. I'm sure it's much more difficult to program but it's definetely my favourite.

Any interface works for me as long as it's implemented well... keyboard OR mouse (though I like using the mouse to click on things and walk around. It just feels right.) Since i'm more of a visual person, I tend to like interfaces that are all dressed up graphically like the Full Throttle "icon pad". I love inventory graphics too. I like seeing all the items i've got in my pocket.

Loom also had an amazing interface, of course.

Recently, I thought Broken Sword 3 had a pretty fun interface with all the lovely icons and character heads. I also thought the keyboard implementation was pretty unique. I didn't care for the crates as much as I did the puzzles (bring 'em on!) but the interface was very clean. I would have prefered it to have been mouse-driven like the originals.

[Bastich]

Originally Posted by Jake

It was full of people who didn't crap on you whenever you disagreed, but would instead write a lengthy response discussing it. That is not the case anymore. In fact, it's become 100% the opposite.

Yeah, right. When I first came to this forum, I was submitting reader reviews and contributing and not getting into arguments, and then there was a topic that was an opinion thread. For the very first time, I bothered to express an opinion, before anyone even knew what I liked in AGs at all, and did a certain someone try to understand my point and query it to find out what I meant? Nope. I will quote that person for you Jake:

"Your sheer powers of rationalization have actually blinded me straight out of this thread. Farewell forever, friend."

I think you may know this person who went out of their way to insult me without provocation for expressing my opinion. An opinion BTW, that I stated was just a trivial complaint. You know what? I think it is the same person who Eriq is talking about...

I had also mentioned that I liked the fact that AGs had a relaxed play-style. While I wasn't quoted, this response came soon after:

"HaHaHaHaHaHa!! Again: This is NOT your grandmother's adventure game!!"

Yep. So open to other's opinions here. Apparently, I am an irrational old lady for expressing them. I was made to feel so welcome...

[Bastich]

Originally Posted by Swordmaster

Funny, in the Adventure Conversations thread some infidel defilers didn't "agree with the status quo" of certain companies (*cough*TAC*cough*) releasing the same Myst clones over and over again which resulted into an instant attack exploiting the ambiguity of mentioning mature women in the posts - by some freak accident, the general dissatisfaction with the mass-produced 3D adventures turned into age racism. The tables have turned, eh?

Go back to the source of the problem. Talking about what happened AFTER everyone was already pissed off isn't helpful. I stated a general opinion about dialogue choices and both you and remixor made no attempt to to discuss, you attacked me and told me to go to other genres. Mag, OTOH, responded intelligently, which I appreciated. THAT was the beginning of that thread getting out of hand. Things really escalated when you quoted me out of context, and then everyone's tempers flared and it got useless after that. If the conversation would have stuck to just Mag and I, it probably wouldn't have escalated.

[fireside]

From reading this thread, I get the impression that people are saying anyone that disagrees with them is terribly rude and flames them. We can't say that linearity or mouse control is good because then we are just completely obnoxious. We can't take anything you say literally, we're supposed to know exactly what you were thinking. No problem.

[fireside]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

You have to remember and keep in mind that that certain someone has no sense of humor or irony whatsoever.

Here's an example of a rude personal attack from someone who is complaining about rude personal attacks.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by Bastich

Defense

This will be my last word on the matter. You (that is, Bastich) claimed that we (that is, many others in this thread) believe the keyboard to be the pinnacle of gaming control, and that we are Luddites who resist ergonomic advancement. However, this is not what we meant, nor what we said. As much as you claim that we misinterpret your posts, it looks like you have deliberately done the same thing. Maybe it was just borne out of frustration, I don't know, and at this point it doesn't even matter anymore. I'm done with this ridiculous issue.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by fireside

Here's an example of a rude personal attack from someone who is complaining about rude personal attacks.

Actually, and I could be wrong, I believe that Kingz was being self-deprecating.

[Kingzjester]

Originally Posted by fireside

Here's an example of a rude personal attack from someone who is complaining about rude personal attacks.

No, it is a statement of fact. If someone said that I am a shitty basketball player, I would not be offended because it is true. I could be offended by somehting like that is if I were trying to pose as someone who is a star athlete, which I am not.

[remixor]

Originally Posted by Bastich

"Your sheer powers of rationalization have actually blinded me straight out of this thread. Farewell forever, friend."

I think you may know this person who went out of their way to insult me without provocation for expressing my opinion. An opinion BTW, that I stated was just a trivial complaint. You know what? I think it is the same person who Eriq is talking about...

I'm in a library and will be leaving in a few minutes, so I have no desire to drag up that thread and look up the specifics, but if I recall correctly, that post was made after Jake had tried time and time again to communicate his point to you. When it became obvious it just wasn't going to work out, he bowed out of the discussion. It was a bit of a jab, yes, but it was obviously intended to be humorous more than anything else, and you should be able to take digs like that without blowing up.

[fireside]

Originally Posted by Kingzjester

No, it is a statement of fact. If someone said that I am a shitty basketball player, I would not be offended because it is true. I could be offended by somehting like that is if I were trying to pose as someone who is a star athlete, which I am not.

You have to remember and keep in mind that that certain someone has no sense of humor or irony whatsoever.

That statement is opinion. It can never be fact.

[Terabin]

Originally Posted by fireside

Arguments are actually good as long as there aren't any personal attacks. We grow by listening to people who disagree with us, and we think more about what our own position is and why we take it.

A few words of wisdom from Fugazi:

The Argument

When they start falling
Executions will commence
Sides will not matter now
Matter makes no sense
How did a difference
Become a disease
I'm sure you have reasons
A rational defence
Weapons and motives
Bloody fingerprints
But I can't help thinking
It's still all disease

Here comes the argument
Here comes the argument
Here comes the argument
Folderol

It's all about strikes now
So here's what's striking me
That some punk could argue
Some moral A.B.C.'s
When people are catching
What bombers release
I'm on a mission
To never agree

Here comes the argument
Here comes the argument
Here comes the argument
Here comes the argument
Here it comes

[remixor]

Fugazi is great