01-23-2007, 12:17 PM | #41 |
Ronin
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 429
|
Is this thread dying?
|
01-23-2007, 12:21 PM | #42 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
If you guys are bored by the P&C adventure games but still would like to enjoy "story-based" games, there are a lot of choices available to you already. Whether a group of gamers like playing P&C adventure games or not will not affect you in any way.
__________________
"Maybe we should try it...without the tape." - Akane, Ranma and Juliet |
|
01-23-2007, 12:43 PM | #43 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Souhern California
Posts: 209
|
Quote:
My point has nothing to do with any aversion to story, dialogue-based games- I happen to really like them, though over-all, I prefer P&C games- no, it has to do with the fact that people who prefer story-based 3rd person games resent the fact that a strong sector of the AG community (if not the majority) prefer P&C games and they can't help but show their disdain to the point of making it personal- ie. the remark that infers that somehow we are perhaps less intelligent than those who prefer stories. My response to that is that it takes special intelligence to discern the underlying story in P&C games; we don't have to have a bedtime story read to us. |
|
01-23-2007, 12:55 PM | #44 | ||
Elegantly copy+pasted
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog. |
||
01-23-2007, 01:41 PM | #45 |
Third Guy from Andromeda
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 248
|
I believe I've already explained the "how": designing games that feature adventure game-style gameplay, but which are not classified as adventure games because publishers and investors shy away from that particular verbiage. We say, "Let's do a detective game" or "let's do an edutainment title" or "let's do an action-adventure" instead, and they get published.
Why? Um, I dunno...to pay the mortgage? Because we like to? Why does anyone do anything for a living? --Josh |
01-23-2007, 01:45 PM | #46 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 622
|
Quote:
If you don't like the system, that's fine. But trying to pretend it's just a small little nothing of a system is ridiculous to anyone who's been paying attention to the market. But yeah, I guess 32+ million sales in a couple years is small time. |
|
01-23-2007, 02:01 PM | #47 | |
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
This is what I wrote in my very longwinded article over at AdventureDevelopers.com, The Cold Hotspot...
Quote:
In fact, from what I've read in various news blog comments, non-adventure fan community forums, and news reports, many non-adventure gamers loved and raved about titles like Dreamfall and Indigo Prophecy specifically because they offered them a much needed break from the otherwise boring and redundant conventions that the typical adventure game offers. And I think that's the primary clue. It looks to be that most media and interested consumers tend to overlook or be ignorant about the adventure game many times (with the exception of high production titles like Syberia, Still Life, and the Myst series) because collectively these games have done nothing new, dynamically bold, experimental, and even controversial in the past several years. Whatever titles that may categorically fall within the genre (like Indigo Prophecy) that are noticed by the press are the exceptions, and yet even these titles may fail to arouse inspiration from other adventure game developers to explore beyond the genre's conventions. This is NOT to say that I think that some traditional adventure games do not deserve attention. They do deserve it. However, I think it has much to do more with the perception that the adventure genre, collectively, has essentially nothing new to offer, either to the consumer or the media reporting on what's going on the game world.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
|
01-23-2007, 02:11 PM | #48 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,595
|
|
01-23-2007, 02:21 PM | #49 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 334
|
Quote:
In regards to cygma and brisk nap - I'd like to see you guys give up your day jobs and invest all your money into the industry. Or hell - just go invest it all in AG companies. Come back in a year and tell me how much you made. Then tell me just how commercially viable your invest was. |
|
01-23-2007, 02:31 PM | #50 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
I know that the adventure games as a genre has largely become a niche in the gaming industry and do not enjoy the commercial success or industry recognition that it used to get but the fact is that there still is a good number of people who continue to enjoy and spend money on games that some of you find boring, redundant, and lacking in artistic merits. It also is true that there are still talented teams like Telltale, Kheops, House of Tales, Frogwares, and Cyan, that continue to make adventure games. It has customers and vendors who are willing to supply them with wares. It's not what it once was but is still commercially and artistically viable. In my book, adventure games are definitely not dead.
__________________
"Maybe we should try it...without the tape." - Akane, Ranma and Juliet |
|
01-23-2007, 02:35 PM | #51 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 289
|
Quote:
__________________
"Maybe we should try it...without the tape." - Akane, Ranma and Juliet |
|
01-23-2007, 02:52 PM | #52 | ||
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Whoah, no need to be defensive, akane. As I had stated, I do think there ARE more traditional adventure games that deserve as much attention from the press and gamers as possible. They merit the attention. However, the reality is that, because of the perceived notion that the genre has nothing new to offer (at least in terms of ideas and such), most of the media choose to not cover it and consquentially most people - other than the hardcore adventure gamers, especially those who frequent communities online like this one - wouldn't know about it, or for that matter, some of the better quality games that fall within the genre of adventure game.
Quote:
Quote:
And remember, NEVER have I stated that I personally think that the adventure genre is dead. I am just being observant and trying to figure out how all this has come to pass. I personally think the adventure game is alive and doing reasonably well now (it's been two years since I wrote The Cold Hotspot). What I was addressing was that as a whole, it doesn't get as much coverage as it might deserve. Why is this? I'm thinking it's that the media thinks there's nothing fundamentally new about it compared to what's going on with other games - for example, like Will Wright's upcoming Spore, Epic's Gears of War, Bethesda's Oblivion, and other titles that are getting tons of attention. The media need to report on whatever's new and exciting. That's their job, to increase and maintain readership. Why would they want to post a headline that says: "New 2D point-n-click linear adventure game announced" and risk getting disinterested readers and advertisers? Yes, the adventure game has become a niche market, and yes, its fans will claim there's nothing wrong with it. But I think that's part of the problem. Since you feel so strongly about the adventure game, shouldn't you also feel that it deserves more coverage so that more people out there would know about, say, TellTale's games, or Harvest Moon's, or other good quality games, and potentially fall in love with them and want to play more games like them? There's plenty of room for diversity within the genre, and there's definitely room for improvement in terms of design and quality, and of course there's tons of room for getting more people interested in these kinds of games.
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
||
01-23-2007, 03:07 PM | #53 | |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 97
|
Quote:
|
|
01-23-2007, 03:17 PM | #54 | ||
merely human
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Chicago
Posts: 22,309
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
platform: laptop, iPhone 3Gs | gaming: x360, PS3, psp, iPhone, wii | blog: a space alien | book: the moral landscape: how science can determine human values by sam harris | games: l.a.noire, portal 2, brink, dragon age 2, heavy rain | sites: NPR, skeptoid, gaygamer | music: ray lamontagne, adele, washed out, james blake | twitter: a_space_alien |
||
01-23-2007, 03:20 PM | #55 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Souhern California
Posts: 209
|
Quote:
Quote:
In any event, give me credit- my post helped to revive this thread after Crapstorm pronounced it dying. |
||
01-23-2007, 03:21 PM | #56 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 622
|
Incidentally, I think it's worth mentioning that DS adventure games aren't the only ones getting interest outside of adventure gaming circles. Telltale have been watched pretty closely since they started, and although most considered Bone a disappointment, a great deal of gaming forums I visit (full of Gears of War discussion and Gran Turismo 5 hype) have been extremely pleased with Sam & Max and even had anticipation threads for episode 2 before it came out. And as Intrepid said, Indigo Prophecy and Dreamfall both got attention as well (though they were both generally considered letdowns for crapping out in the third act).
|
01-23-2007, 03:30 PM | #57 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 622
|
Quote:
And handhelds have always been marginalized in stores because they cost more to produce and less to sell to the customer (you can thank carts for this). Stores don't want to push products with a low profit margin, and Nintendo doesn't try to twist arms to get their products in more desireable locations in stores (the last time they did, they got hit with a massive legal battle and lost). In any case, the point is that DS adventure games have gotten people who otherwise don't care about the genre talking about it. |
|
01-23-2007, 03:31 PM | #58 |
Beyond Belief
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Blighty
Posts: 2,186
|
The popularity even here of games that contain almost no adventure gameplay, should say something about the death of the adventure. Dreamfall contains very little gameplay, Fahrenheit* is over 90% Dance Dance Revolution rhythm game. They're loved for their stories, which says a lot about the audience, they're worse than The Matrix: Reloaded, The Da Vinci Code, and Harry Potter**, put together.
There are still a lot of adventures being made with adventure gameplay, I haven't tried many recently, reports of bugs, and stubborn use of conventions that just don't work like fixed camera 3D. The solution developers offer is to limit the ammount of interaction and gameplay, as if cutting a bad game down is going to make it better. There is nothing wrong with doing the same type of gameplay, but right now, it's done badly. Where we should be seeing progress, we're seeing regress. Other genres, especially RPGs, continue to borrow from past adventures of the '90s, but I very much doubt any of them are going to take anything from modern adventure games. Games from other genres are better at telling stories in the game not in cutscenes, better with technology, dialogue systems, interfaces, game engines, facial expressions and sometimes they even have better puzzles in them (and they're not even illogical, or obscure). Financially adventures are already dead, making another Still Life or Syberia isn't going to make a lot of money. I don't see developers capable of making games of the calibre of Grim Fandango, Shadow of the Templars, or even The Longest Journey, how many developers are making adventures that made those. Dreamfall, Psychonauts, decidely not adventures, and Revolution with really poor efforts. * David Cage's excellent post mortem identifies and shows promise he'll not repeat most of the problems with the game. **It's for children, sure, it's a very good series for children and young adults.
__________________
Richard Dawkins :: AAI 07 :: NOVA ID on Trial :: Skeptic's Guide :: Beyond Belief :: Out Campaign :: NeuroLogica :: Skepticality |
01-23-2007, 03:46 PM | #59 |
Plumber-x company
|
Adventure Games are not dying they are in a value to put away for a long time so people well never see them again
|
01-23-2007, 04:02 PM | #60 |
Elegantly copy+pasted
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,773
|
Oh god! Same old people, same old opinions. This is becoming one of those threads, isn't it?
Goodbye!
__________________
Please excuse me. I've got to see a man about a dog. |