[Giligan]

So we finally find out that Max carries a P-38? Hmmm. always looked more like a Luger in the comics. What is Sam's gun supposed to be, though?

[Gretulli]

Good effort, Telltale! But please stop treating us like retards and give us some challenging puzzles.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Gretulli

Good effort, Telltale! But please stop treating us like retards and give us some challenging puzzles.

The game is for retards. And you played it! Oh man... burn!


Also, welcome to the forums Gretulli!

[pheeph]

Originally Posted by Giligan

So we finally find out that Max carries a P-38? Hmmm. always looked more like a Luger in the comics. What is Sam's gun supposed to be, though?

Actually, it IS a Luger. I can see that little cylinder thing on the top of the gun. The P-38 is somewhat derived from the Luger but doesn't have the cylinder thing. In the game, it's not that heavily rendered...

[Gretulli]

Originally Posted by Jake

The game is for retards. And you played it! Oh man... burn!


Also, welcome to the forums Gretulli!

D'oh!

Heh! Guess I should have seen that one coming...

Anyways...

Thanks for the welcome, Jake. I used to be an active member over at the Mojo forums and on good 'ol #monkey-island back in the day. Went by the nickname Oystein (which coincidentally is my first name). Man, that's a long time ago. I suddenly feel old.

Back on topic: But seriously, I really hope Telltale will crank it up a notch puzzle-wise for the next installments. I like all the other aspects of these episodes. Get your s h i t together, Dave Grossman!

[Erwin_Br]

Hey. I remember you.

--Erwin

[HieroHero]

Originally Posted by Gretulli

D'oh!

Heh! Guess I should have seen that one coming...

Anyways...

Thanks for the welcome, Jake. I used to be an active member over at the Mojo forums and on good 'ol #monkey-island back in the day. Went by the nickname Oystein (which coincidentally is my first name). Man, that's a long time ago. I suddenly feel old.

Back on topic: But seriously, I really hope Telltale will crank it up a notch puzzle-wise for the next installments. I like all the other aspects of these episodes. Get your s h i t together, Dave Grossman!

have you seen this thread?

http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/...ead.php?t=1232

[Gabe]

I think puzzles are just fine for fun as like how they supposed to be,due to epis. concept and chic.No stupid pixel hunting,no mazing,no mouse hovering etc..expecting to see hard puzzles(who doesnt like Myst style ) from this game nothin but nitpicking.

[Ariel Type]

What puzzles me is why all the players who enjoys adventures like Syberia or Dreamfall, always conclude: "If you want hard puzzles, go play Myst". There are lots of classical inventory adventure games that involve good logic, but requires you a lot of thinking to solve puzzles. Heck, take some obvious examples, like Monkey Island, or Gabriel Knight, or the original Sam&Max for that matter. No that had puzzles. New S&M are not adventures.

[numble]

Originally Posted by Ariel Type

What puzzles me is why all the players who enjoys adventures like Syberia or Dreamfall, always conclude: "If you want hard puzzles, go play Myst". There are lots of classical inventory adventure games that involve good logic, but requires you a lot of thinking to solve puzzles. Heck, take some obvious examples, like Monkey Island, or Gabriel Knight, or the original Sam&Max for that matter. No that had puzzles. New S&M are not adventures.

Monkey Island: How many people were trying out every inventory item before they discovered that

Spoiler:

using a rubber chicken allowed you to get across the island?

There was no thinking involved there, just mindless tedium.

More examples of mindless tedium in Sam and Max: Many puzzles involved trying out everything with everything, not "good logic" to me.

Spoiler:

How many people were punished for not trying to "use" everything, because it didn't occur to them that they should try to "use" a mousehole to get money? Or that you should try to "use" Max everywhere? Because if you think it's "good logic" that Max should be used as scissors or for shorting out an electrical system, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Don't even get me started on using a broken golf ball retriever with a severed hand with a magnet/cup in order to retrieve an item that isn't even on the screen...

[HieroHero]

you should have known

Spoiler:

to use max to short circuit in the tunnel of love after you used max to get the commissioners orders out of the cat..

there was an internal logic to that game that if you followed all those "Wacky puzzles" made a lot of sense and you started to play accordingly.. I miss using Max for crazy stuff..

[Melanie68]

I'm being kind of a spoiler tag nazi. I'm sure the vast majority of people who are playing the new Sam&Max games have played Hit The Road but I like to be on the safe side.

[HieroHero]

yeah you dont wanna spoil a game that came out 14 years ago

[samIamsad]

Do I finally get to flirt with Sybil in this one...?

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by HieroHero

yeah you dont wanna spoil a game that came out 14 years ago

Well I didn't play the game until 2006.

That said lets steer this conversation back towards Situation: Comedy and save the Hit The Road discussion for either an old HTR thread or start a new one.

[numble]

Originally Posted by HieroHero

you should have known

Spoiler:

to use max to short circuit in the tunnel of love after you used max to get the commissioners orders out of the cat..

there was an internal logic to that game that if you followed all those "Wacky puzzles" made a lot of sense and you started to play accordingly.. I miss using Max for crazy stuff..

I still don't buy that... that first puzzle only encouraged you to use Max in every single hotspot, and 1 out of 50 times you are rewarded for doing it correctly. Instead of telling the player that you should use Max to interrogate suspects, which would make sense, the rest of the game told the player, "expect that you may be able to use Max at ANY time." From then on, you would go into every new scene and try to use Max with every object. If it was completely logical, even when you adjust for the "internal logic" of Sam and Max, you would know exactly when to use Max, but there was no consistency to when to use Max.

"He's not an inventory item this time," explained Grossman. "I didn't like that [in Hit the Road] you would just use him for these mundane purposes, like as a pair of scissors, when the player would probably just think to use a a pair of scissors." Grossman went on to mention that puzzle design in a Sam & Max game can be tricky because the type of solutions Sam & Max themselves generally take in the comics, which are frequently nonsensical or indirect, are not necessarily what would actually occur to a reasonable player. As such, the team felt it wise to err on the side of playability.

---

Originally Posted by Melanie68

Well I didn't play the game until 2006.

That said lets steer this conversation back towards Situation: Comedy and save the Hit The Road discussion for either an old HTR thread or start a new one.

Oops. Well, hopefully, my insertion of the Dave Grossman quote somewhat qualifies as remaining on the topic of Situation: Comedy...

[Ariel Type]

numble
The puzzles you mentioned had good logic in the context of universes they belonged to + involved a little thinking. In this case we've got clear logic, but no thinking, no need to explore the little universe fot some hints, because everything is so clear.
I think if episodic S&M had the same puzzle design as the original S&M, it would've been a much better game. Personally, I think Dave is not right here. As a designer he started to repeat himself (collect three items/ perform three actions to get a result), while original S&M was original in every respect, and with "using Max as an inventory item" too.

[Melanie68]

Originally Posted by numble

Oops. Well, hopefully, my insertion of the Dave Grossman quote somewhat qualifies as remaining on the topic of Situation: Comedy...

'Tis alright. It's an interesting discussion. It's certainly comparing puzzle design between the older game and the new game. I just didn't want to veer off too far to just HTR (and I may have sounded too dictatorial which I don't want to be).

[skurken]

I love new Sam&Max! Nice and easy, I hate being stuck on some obscure puzzle forever. Keep 'em coming Telltale

[numble]

Originally Posted by Ariel Type

numble
The puzzles you mentioned had good logic in the context of universes they belonged to + involved a little thinking. In this case we've got clear logic, but no thinking, no need to explore the little universe fot some hints, because everything is so clear.

Eh, I'll still maintain that the puzzles I mentioned are some of the most egregious examples of obscure illogical puzzle design in such games. I will maintain that most people came to the conclusions to the puzzles I mentioned from either a walkthrough, or trying to use everything with everything.

I'll talk you through one of my examples, but it really applies to all the puzzles I mentioned.

Spoiler:

When Sam and Max need money to spend, does it involve a little thinking to figure out that you should go back to the office and "use/pick-up" the mousehole? Or is it more reasonable to expect somebody to have stumbled upon it by using everything with everything? Nothing to do with the logic of the universe.

Originally Posted by Ariel Type

As a designer he started to repeat himself (collect three items/ perform three actions to get a result), while original S&M was original in every respect, and with "using Max as an inventory item" too.

And this is the same design as the major puzzle in the first act of Monkey Island, the first act of Monkey Island 2, Year 2 of Grim Fandango, and who knows how many adventure games. Go with what works, I say... and spend more time concentrating on the writing and humor. Though I will say that the Sybil puzzle in Culture Shock and the many verbal-based puzzles feel very innovative to me.