[Fien]

@Bon. Please use spoiler tags. You're discussing the ending.

Serious spoilers ahead

Spoiler:

I agree one hundred percent with Sughly and Foe. The best endings are bittersweet and this one was very satisfying, with a lot of depth. I certainly don't want every fantasy adventure to end with a happy wedding in the vein of King's Quest 6. I didn't expect one anyway, not with Sadwick lying to Shana and denying that his dream is about destroying instead of saving. A few people complained (review comments) that there should have been more than one ending. No way! Sadwick doesn't have a choice, he never had, it was his fate to fulfill the prophecy. And everything, hints and details (and the title!), made perfect sense afterwards, for instance Sadwick falling asleep at the oddest moments. Which made me wonder. But I certainly didn't see the twist at the end coming and I bet nobody else did either.

[Bon]

Originally Posted by Fien

But I certainly didn't see the twist at the end coming and I bet nobody else did either. [/spoiler]

Spoiler:

I did. It was pretty obvious that Sadwick's dreams have something to do with the plot, and so was the ending after watching The Wizard of Oz and reading Alice in Wonderland. I also knew he couldn't just find the king upon entering his chambers (that would be totally anti-climatic). Put two and two together and voila! I definitely saw it coming, but I didn't think it would actually end that way, being a cliche and all.

Btw, Dale Baldwin, that part of my post you put under spoiler tags is not really spoiler, I made that up, it doesn't have almost anything to do with the story itself. I did discuss the ending, but I didn't give anything way, except(my opinion) that the story is a cliche.

[Dale Baldwin]

Having not played the game, I just spoilered it all without reading.

[Fien]

@Bon

Spoiler:

Yes, of course Sadwick's dreams have something to do with the plot. But what you're saying is that the ending was obvious to you, including the twist which you saw coming just because you have read Alice? You didn't remember it after the fact, after you'd finished the game? I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. For one thing, Alice did not have this particular twist and there's absolutely nothing in the emotional tone, atmosphere and story of TWW to remind you of Alice. Also, you totally disregard the meaning of the ending in the light of the rest of the story.

Btw, Dale Baldwin, that part of my post you put under spoiler tags is not really spoiler, I made that up, it doesn't have almost anything to do with the story itself. I did discuss the ending, but I didn't give anything way, except(my opinion) that the story is a cliche.

You most certainly did mention aspects of the story. And what is your problem with using spoiler tags? This general TWW thread doesn't have the word SPOILERS in the title and it will be read by people who haven't played it.

[Sughly]

I just generally agree with Fien. That's the extent of my reply...

[Bon]

Originally Posted by Fien

@Bon

Spoiler:

Yes, of course Sadwick's dreams have something to do with the plot. But what you're saying is that the ending was obvious to you, including the twist which you saw coming just because you have read Alice? You didn't remember it after the fact, after you'd finished the game? I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. For one thing, Alice did not have this particular twist and there's absolutely nothing in the emotional tone, atmosphere and story of TWW to remind you of Alice.

Spoiler:

Certain story elements (such as dreams in this case.. and especially since it's set in a fantasy world) always remind me of something. I watched / read / played countless works (I used Alice purely as an example) with "it was all just a dream" twist. Sadwick was dreaming throughout the game and I knew there'll be a twist ending. So it seemed kind of obvious. Believe it or not.

Spoiler:

Also, you totally disregard the meaning of the ending in the light of the rest of the story.

Hm? I think I already said the ending is good in the light of the rest of the story (but there should be more bits about Sadwick growing up), but that doesn't change the fact it's a cliche. Or you thought about something else?

You most certainly did mention aspects of the story. And what is your problem with using spoiler tags? This general TWW thread doesn't have the word SPOILERS in the title and it will be read by people who haven't played it.

I might have mentioned aspects of the story (but not more than a review or an ad would mention), but I didn't give away any plot pieces. I don't have a problem with spoiler tags, I don't think those were spoilers and I want to give as many people as possible a chance to read my insightful posts.

[Inwards]

I finished this the other and was going through some of the bonus extras that are available on completion. Watching the time-lapse footage of the artist drawing the night scene of the monk's cottage gave me pause.

Instead of dice checks or a traditional DRM "you can't play this game" type pop-up, I think the game should display this movie when it detects that it's been copied. The amount of work that went into creating this single image is just mind-blowing. Perhaps this clip will hammer home just how much work someone is ripping off when they pirate it.

[ADan]

Hi,

I don't think you would be able to come up with a "better" ending. For once the things you suggested are very much more cliche than the ending of TWW actually is. Believe me, I have read about 400 Science Fiction Novels in my time and your ideas are nothing but stale.

But all of this is beside the point. The AUTHOR is the one who decides what's going on in the story and everyone has the right to dislike, well, whatever they don't like about the whole thing. Of course with a genre that doesn't really let you discuss in public what's eating you (spoilers) it is kind of hard to make a point what specifically you didn't like. But still I think that coming up with alternative endings does not give the artist(s) behind the whole thing enough credit. If you really believe you're a better author, well, go ahead and write your own game.

I'm sorry if my words come across as harsh but I am someone who always respects the decisions an artist makes which doesn't mean that I always agree with their decision.
But It's theirs and theirs alone.
When I work on my own stuff (that would be little audio plays or music most of the time) I don't want anyone else who might just not understand the intentions to have a say in what's going on. I do accept criticism from friends though. But the decision is mine and a possible negative outcome is my responsibility alone. Because I wanted things to be that way and no other.

So basically I think it's futile to say "I kind of liked it, but the ending is not to my taste". I think TWW as a story is very consistent and I'd say like one other poster did before: It couldn't have ended any other way.

Spoiler:

Have you revisited the cutscenes and did you see the material that is provided while the credits roll? I believe everything that you asked for is in there.

Well, this turned out to be longer than intended but that's the way it goes.
Cheers, Dan.

[Bon]

Originally Posted by ADan

I don't think you would be able to come up with a "better" ending. For once the things you suggested are very much more cliche than the ending of TWW actually is. Believe me, I have read about 400 Science Fiction Novels in my time and your ideas are nothing but stale.

Spoiler:

I was exaggerating. The important part is a twist at the end - mine is that Asgil are actually aliens, theirs (author's) is that it was all a dream. I'm pretty sure that's a bigger cliche. Even if it couldn't end any other way, why write a story whose only possible outcome is a cliche?

If you really believe you're a better author, well, go ahead and write your own game.

I lack experience, but I could easily be a better author. Writing something truly original is a problem for me, but I can easily come up with a good but already done story such as the one in TWW.

Btw, I was supposed to write a short Tenacious D style adventure in Flash, but my friend who was supposed to do the programming backed out. But that's still kind of in the air, and I would gladly write an adventure if I knew someone who could program it.

I'm sorry if my words come across as harsh

It's ok, I'm a big boy, I can take someone's opinion.

but I am someone who always respects the decisions an artist makes which doesn't mean that I always agree with their decision.

I understand the decision is a part of artist's vision (hell, it even rhymes ), but since I don't agree with it I also can't respect it.

Spoiler:

Have you revisited the cutscenes and did you see the material that is provided while the credits roll? I believe everything that you asked for is in there.

Spoiler:

I have and it's a nice touch (if we're thinking about the same thing), but again, it's already done (Wizard of Oz, for example - Scarecrow, Tin Man and the rest are all real people in real life).

My main complaint is the cliched ending. Besides that, I think there should pass more time between chapters 1 and 4, and Sadwick should travel greater lengths. This way it's not really epic, 'cause the entire plot is happening in a span of two days, between circus and the island next to it and Corona and its surroundings. Also, Asgil shouldn't show up until late in the game - you know, don't show Godzilla to the audience until the end of the movie. But, apart from that (and the stuff about Sadwick's development which I'm too bored to repeat), I actually liked the story - great dialogues, enjoyable humor, melancholic feel to it...

[Sughly]

Ok, let it be said that I agree wholeheartedly with ADan here on the view of the artist's perspective - it corrolates to a gripe I have with a mainstream obsession with sandbox games and open ended exploration and story, in which I think a definitive narrative as constructed by the author to be played out and realised by us as the gamer is much more substantial. To me that's always been one of the biggest likes about the adventure genre, having great, interesting, and solid narratives.

Sorry Bon, not trying to say you're wrong because to each his own opinion and it's fair enough if the story wasn't your thing, but to say that the author should've done what you suggested such as

Spoiler:

having Asgil later, expanding the space of the journey

aren't really good suggestions in my opinion.

Spoiler:

I think the pacing with the Asgil was great, they couldn't have come at a better time in the game, really changed up the pace and mood when it needed it. As for the feeling of being 'epic' - the journey was there,

I think what you're saying is that you didn't necessarily see it, which is probably a sum of a few things (namely budget in being able to better portray that in animations and such, and also in the player's lack of ability to fill those gaps in... the guy you meet at the start mentions how far away Corona is and how futile it would be to try it without help...)

Spoiler:

in this case Kalida.

Sorry for all the spoilers, better safe than sorry

Originally Posted by Inwards

I finished this the other and was going through some of the bonus extras that are available on completion. Watching the time-lapse footage of the artist drawing the night scene of the monk's cottage gave me pause.

Instead of dice checks or a traditional DRM "you can't play this game" type pop-up, I think the game should display this movie when it detects that it's been copied. The amount of work that went into creating this single image is just mind-blowing. Perhaps this clip will hammer home just how much work someone is ripping off when they pirate it.

Haha, I mentioned this a little earlier but yeah, that was something else. I think that's an awesome suggestion too, by the way.

[Bon]

Originally Posted by Sughly

the guy you meet at the start mentions how far away Corona is and how futile it would be to try it without help...)

Spoiler:

in this case Kalida.

Spoiler:

Exactly, plus in the last chapter someone says something about an "epic journey". That's what the problem is - Corona is so far away, yet Sadwick was catapulted to the island next to the circus and from there he right away got just outside Corona. My journey to the supermarket is longer than that, and even waiting in the line on saturdays takes more time. Just think about Frodo's journey to Mordor, now that was epic (and before someone jumps in, I'm not trying to say it should be like that in TWW, it's just that this epic journey was more like a field trip).

[Ugignadl]

I understand your defense of the story, and in almost every respect I agree with you. However,

Spoiler:

one must be allowed to make fair criticism. And the truth of the matter is, unless the writers are extremely careful, an "its all fake" scenario is unsatisfying. Having many of the important and tangible plot elements frittered away is not only irritating, it is terribly cliche and inefficient. I wouldn't go so far as to call it poor writing, and I would never go to the next level of attacking the skills of the creators of the game, I am sure they are very competent. And if this is their vision then so be it. But I criticise mostly the inefficiency of it. Is it not a partial waste of effort on the part of the writers and the gamers to get to know and be involved with the story and its elements?

That's my opinion at least, take it for what it is worth.

[Jelena]

I'm still in the beginning of the game so I haven't looked at any of the posts with spoiler tags yet.
I just played the part with the hilarious conversation with the rock brothers. It was almost a bit 'Monty Pythonish'. I can tell TWW will suit my sense of humour perfectly.

[ADan]

Originally Posted by Jelena

I'm still in the beginning of the game so I haven't looked at any of the posts with spoiler tags yet.
I just played the part with the hilarious conversation with the rock brothers. It was almost a bit 'Monty Pythonish'. I can tell TWW will suit my sense of humour perfectly.

Yeah, the Rock Bros. were my favorites, too. Mainly because they turned out to be what I had in mind when translating: Lovable Alabama (or Texas) rednecks. In fact they are the only ones that kept (well took on, actually) a truly American identity. The other characters are somewhat different than I had imagined them but they are all in all quite acceptable. Mulachei even turned out better than expected. As did the narrator. A good voice can really do a lot for a character.

"Pythonish" (if that's the same as "pythonesque") is a hell of a compliment. I'll take that gladly, and in the name of the German authors, too.

Cheers, I wish you loads of fun proceeding further into the whispered world, Dan.

[HELPME9999]

I play fps & rpg games mostly, but recently my roommate introduce me to Machinarium & I like it a lot.

This is the 2nd game that he recommend me to play, and I don’t really enjoy it very much, too much talking and I’m stuck most of the time.
The art looks good but that’s the only positive point, the gameplay is quite dissapointing (due to a show stopper illogical puzzle).

Is this game really highly praised among the point and click adventure gamer ? I would rate this game 6/10 at best, but i guess that's because i'm not a hardcore adventure game player.

[Jelena]

Originally Posted by ADan

"Pythonish" (if that's the same as "pythonesque") is a hell of a compliment. I'll take that gladly, and in the name of the German authors, too.

OK, now I know the proper expression is pythonesque.
And that's indeed what I meant.

Cheers, I wish you loads of fun proceeding further into the whispered world, Dan.

Thank you!

[Bon]

Originally Posted by HELPME9999

Is this game really highly praised among the point and click adventure gamer ? I would rate this game 6/10 at best, but i guess that's because i'm not a hardcore adventure game player.

Yes, it's probably because of that. Adventure fans usually favor this kind of "illogical" wacky puzzles, and 99% of them are interested in the story/talking parts. There really can't be enough of that.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by HELPME9999

Is this game really highly praised among the point and click adventure gamer ? I would rate this game 6/10 at best, but i guess that's because i'm not a hardcore adventure game player.

6/10 is too generous of you. I would give whispered World 4/10. I am yet to find anything impressive in it. I got it the 1st week of its release and still haven't finished it. Just don't get in the mood to play it much.

[cbman]

Originally Posted by HELPME9999

I play fps & rpg games mostly, but recently my roommate introduce me to Machinarium & I like it a lot.

This is the 2nd game that he recommend me to play, and I don’t really enjoy it very much, too much talking and I’m stuck most of the time.
The art looks good but that’s the only positive point, the gameplay is quite dissapointing (due to a show stopper illogical puzzle).

Is this game really highly praised among the point and click adventure gamer ? I would rate this game 6/10 at best, but i guess that's because i'm not a hardcore adventure game player.

If you're just getting into the genre then you must remember that there is a certain type of player of these games who just want endless Monkey Island clones. So if you re looking for reccomendations for genuinelly interesting games it's important to identify these types of people and take their reccomendations with a pinch of salt, otherwise they will just have you buying an unsatisfactory string of Monkey Island clones.

From what I have seen of it The Whispered World is a totally generic example of the genre, averagely executed. If you want to see the best of this type of point and click, inventory puzzles game then you'd be better off just going straight to the original classics.

[DustyShinigami]

Does the German version of this game have English subtitles? If so, I may (possibly) get the game in the future. But, if not...